Radeon VII, what do you guys think ?

Just read the first review and I am impressed, I did not expect that much power in that card.

Given that it can only get better and cheaper, we have a real alternative imho.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-radeon-vii-16-gb-review,1.html

Give the link...

Just read the first review and I am impressed, I did not expect that much power in that card.

 

Given that it can only get better and cheaper, we have a real alternative imho.

 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-radeon-vii-16-gb-review,1.html

I have to wonder why it was tested on a 5960x @4.2ghz. Some heavy bottlenecking there @ 2560x1440 and lower resolution in at least a couple of the dx11 titles.

Still.. thing looks like a good contender @ $700

great card, but needs mature drivers to really show its stuff.

Its meant for 1440P or 4K. In 4K arena looks great against a 2080 and a cheaper (but less powerful) alternative to 2080Ti thanks to that impressive 16Gb HBM2 memory.

Stay away from it at 1080P. There are cheaper alternatives with more consistent performance.

EDIT: wait for partner cards. Less noise and better drivers by then.

I haven't looked at the benchmarks yet but from what I've read this is more of a placeholder until navi comes out. I've seen reports that AMDs cost is upwards of 650+ for the card and they're making little if any profit. In very short supply also. Newegg sold out very quickly. Apparently only 100-200 cards went to the UK and some countries only got around 20.

I think I'd consider it if I were looking for 2070 ~ 2080 some of the results seemed good even compared to 2080Ti for the money.

But we need a DCS/DCS VR rating be interested to to see what people here find for DCS our pricing means you could get a better CPU or memory in the build.

It would be nice to hear some of that FragBum, absolutely.

The 16GB could help so could the 1TB/sec bandwidth.

Heck, add Vulkan and ..... need a coffee !!!

Yes higher VRAM bandwidth plus on servers I get 10GB + VRAM usage so more and faster VRAM should help.

Keen to see how it does in VR performance with DCS.

great card, but needs mature drivers to really show its stuff.

Indeed, pre-release drivers are usually far from optimized. It's looking promising for AMD. I'm sure this card is why Nvidia want to release their next genaration as early as Q4 2019 - Q1 2020.

Let us rejoice :thumbup:, Nvidia has the performance of a rival.

Fast card, at the expense of immense TDP though.

Currently still using a 970 and had been set on a 2080. Honestly, if it performs around the same as a 2080FE/OC'd 2070 then the 16GB of vRAM might make me choose the Radeon VII. Would be fantastic if someone on here could test a Radeon VII in a few months when drivers mature, to help me make an informed decision.

There were a few available on Newegg up until a day or so ago, sold out now

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150820&Description=amd%20radeon%20vii&cm_re=amd_radeon_vii-_-14-150-820-_-Product&fbclid=IwAR2ltylhbuPO8SmHdCHBXQooYUxF1bcdz48tKPfZQKIdEUJfKSpEBxEdKTk

I think I see a new build in my future.

Fast card, at the expense of immense TDP though.

Immense ? Vega 64 was immense, especially after overclocking. This is much closer to competition and after undervolting it gets even better.

Real issues as far as I've seen relate to noise and poor temperature handling. Its obvious that default design was a last minute thought as there are issues with vapor chamber pad unevenly contacting chip - hence the need for thermal pad instead of proper thermal paste. Fin arrengement is also subobtimal, it should be denser and possibly higher - which of course would lead to 2.5 slot design. At this point card seems to be throttling down due to overvoltage applied by AMD at factory and cooler unable to handle so much heat.

I'd wait for Sapphire Nitro version as those are ususally best AMD AIB designs.

Certainly would be a nice option once my 1080Ti runs out of warranty in June, especially since Ive decided to get upcoming oled TV with 120 hz refresh rate for more immersive experience and better picture quality than 2.5 year old panel I have right now. And TVs often support no VRR or only Freesync, so AMD is the way to go here.

Fast ~ 2080

Too noisy

Amd drivers hell

No RTX

No Tensor

SH develops for nvidia

A bit more expensive than 2080 here (Italy)

So…. why?

Noise is the result of heat issues, if you undervolt the card to reasonable levels, it gets much more acceptable. Shame they just didnt copy Sapphire Nitro design for the cooler. Drivers are bad indeed though, which is surprising considering AMD drivers for a couple years now maintain very high quality. My experience of having both manufacturers cards was that AMD drivers were actually better than Nvidia, or at least more stable. Im still getting crashes with nvidia driver in DCS every now and than.

As for RTX and Tensor, we no surprise there. Its Nvidia technology, so why would AMD gpus have it. Its like asking why Nvidia gpus dont have HBCC. Anyway, here is interesting material regarding that matter in game that was build around Nvidia tech (including Raytracing):

https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/180036/does-radeon-vii-battlefield-vs-performance-demonstrate-future-multi-threaded-game-performance

Personally Id wait for AIB designs from XFX or Sapphire before anyone tries this one. It sure will get interesting once we move to Vulkan with DCS.

Noise is the result of heat issues, if you undervolt the card to reasonable levels, it gets much more acceptable. Shame they just didnt copy Sapphire Nitro design for the cooler. Drivers are bad indeed though, which is surprising considering AMD drivers for a couple years now maintain very high quality. My experience of having both manufacturers cards was that AMD drivers were actually better than Nvidia, or at least more stable. Im still getting crashes with nvidia driver in DCS every now and than.

 

As for RTX and Tensor, we no surprise there. Its Nvidia technology, so why would AMD gpus have it. Its like asking why Nvidia gpus dont have HBCC. Anyway, here is interesting material regarding that matter in game that was build around Nvidia tech (including Raytracing):

https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/180036/does-radeon-vii-battlefield-vs-performance-demonstrate-future-multi-threaded-game-performance

 

Personally Id wait for AIB designs from XFX or Sapphire before anyone tries this one. It sure will get interesting once we move to Vulkan with DCS.

BFV is getting DLSS "soon" according to the latest nvidia driver news. Which will allow for better performance with and without raytracing currently using an RTX card. LIkely to be limited to 1440p and 4K. But still.. it gives a considerable edge to the RTX cards in the title. 2070 will potentially outperform a 1080Ti with the aid of DLSS.

I was also using dx12 in BFV last night, and it seems they've fixed some issues with it.

I had to adjust my resolution to 5160x2160 to experience DLSS in FFXIV on my 21:9 but.. it looked pretty good and was actually playable around 55fps and often above 60fps at that resolution.. which says good things to me about DLSS. Hopefully they find a way to make this work across a broader range of resolutions to utilize it in VR titles. FFXIV was basically nvidia's first wide scale test of DLSS. I anticipate 1440p support with BFV.

Frankly raytracing is hard to notice in the game as they've toned it down to increase performance, and you're generally too busy to stand around looking at reflections. but with dlss I'll probably be able to get away with it even @ 3440x1440. As it stands I have to lower my resolution to about 75% to keep my 100fps minimum with DXR enabled.

DLSS is by far the feature I've been most excited for with the RTX series, as well as what we may see over the next period of years with the NGX sdk. Still think ED should be keeping an eye on the tech given the performance hit from MSAA. NGX being the SDK that deals with tensor core operations, this is going to be where this new technology shines. DLSS is just feature #1. I mean the value of even the 2060 goes up in titles that will support this feature, which is already competing with a 1080 @$350USD

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-games-at-ces-2019/

I may have to purchase a copy of 3Dmark to see if I run into any resolution restrictions with DLSS. 3dmark is like $5 right now >.< Could give me info I don't have yet regarding DLSS. If I do I'll post my findings.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-3dmark-port-royal-benchmark/

I think I see a new build in my future.

hoh hoh...you mean you consider AMD as a GPU option again ?

I am eager to know your point of view :thumbup:

Imo this card cries for a water loop, at least in my dreams.

hoh hoh...you mean you consider AMD as a GPU option again ?

 

I am eager to know your point of view :thumbup:

As much as it pains me, but Nvidia prices have remained stupid for too long. I will probably regret it since I still think that AMD can't write a decent driver to save their lives.

Imo this card cries for a water loop, at least in my dreams.

Yes, water loop or at least larger radiator (like Raijintek Morpheus II) would make a huge difference imo.

BFV is getting DLSS "soon" according to the latest nvidia driver news. Which will allow for better performance with and without raytracing currently using an RTX card. LIkely to be limited to 1440p and 4K. But still.. it gives a considerable edge to the RTX cards in the title. 2070 will potentially outperform a 1080Ti with the aid of DLSS.

 

I was also using dx12 in BFV last night, and it seems they've fixed some issues with it.

 

I had to adjust my resolution to 5160x2160 to experience DLSS in FFXIV on my 21:9 but.. it looked pretty good and was actually playable around 55fps and often above 60fps at that resolution.. which says good things to me about DLSS. Hopefully they find a way to make this work across a broader range of resolutions to utilize it in VR titles. FFXIV was basically nvidia's first wide scale test of DLSS. I anticipate 1440p support with BFV.

 

Frankly raytracing is hard to notice in the game as they've toned it down to increase performance, and you're generally too busy to stand around looking at reflections. but with dlss I'll probably be able to get away with it even @ 3440x1440. As it stands I have to lower my resolution to about 75% to keep my 100fps minimum with DXR enabled.

 

DLSS is by far the feature I've been most excited for with the RTX series, as well as what we may see over the next period of years with the NGX sdk. Still think ED should be keeping an eye on the tech given the performance hit from MSAA. NGX being the SDK that deals with tensor core operations, this is going to be where this new technology shines. DLSS is just feature #1. I mean the value of even the 2060 goes up in titles that will support this feature, which is already competing with a 1080 @$350USD

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-games-at-ces-2019/

 

I may have to purchase a copy of 3Dmark to see if I run into any resolution restrictions with DLSS. 3dmark is like $5 right now >.< Could give me info I don't have yet regarding DLSS. If I do I'll post my findings.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-dlss-3dmark-port-royal-benchmark/

I know that BF V is going to get DLSS, though for us playing DCS it matters not. What was interesting in the quoted material, was that low overhead APIs benefit AMD more while Nvidia GPUs can cause stutter due to driver optimization, at least in that specific instance. Overall I think Vulkan is going to benefit all DCS users, whereas DLSS would only benefit a tiny part of community who opted to buy into RTX cards.

Also, DLSS is not a wonder tech, nor is it limited to Nvidia. Dont forget that Vega GPUs are more designed for compute and deep learning tasks than pure gaming so this kind of tech can profit AMD GPU's as well and it most likely will since AMD already announced they are working on their version of it using Microsofts DirectML. DirectML libraries will be a part of Windows Spring update and results you can already estimate based on Luxmark in which RVII offers around 1.5 better performance than RTX 2800 (if Im not mistaken). I honestly think that something like DirectML available to all Windows users makes more sense in implementing than Nvidia DLSS which is only limited to RTX cards and Nvidia software. But DirectML requires Dx12 which in case of Vulkan implementation in DCS is a no go.

I guess Khronos Group will have to come up with something themselves.

It's good that we can debate like this again, HOW LONG have we been waiting for this, how long guys ?

Lisa, you simply rock :thumbsup:

Yes, water loop or at least larger radiator (like Raijintek Morpheus II) would make a huge difference imo.

 

 

 

I know that BF V is going to get DLSS, though for us playing DCS it matters not. What was interesting in the quoted material, was that low overhead APIs benefit AMD more while Nvidia GPUs can cause stutter due to driver optimization, at least in that specific instance. Overall I think Vulkan is going to benefit all DCS users, whereas DLSS would only benefit a tiny part of community who opted to buy into RTX cards.

 

Also, DLSS is not a wonder tech, nor is it limited to Nvidia. Dont forget that Vega GPUs are more designed for compute and deep learning tasks than pure gaming so this kind of tech can profit AMD GPU's as well and it most likely will since AMD already announced they are working on their version of it using Microsofts DirectML. DirectML libraries will be a part of Windows Spring update and results you can already estimate based on Luxmark in which RVII offers around 1.5 better performance than RTX 2800 (if Im not mistaken). I honestly think that something like DirectML available to all Windows users makes more sense in implementing than Nvidia DLSS which is only limited to RTX cards and Nvidia software. But DirectML requires Dx12 which in case of Vulkan implementation in DCS is a no go.

I guess Khronos Group will have to come up with something themselves.

Lol I would like it if it did matter in DCS. I mean I get ED's stance on proprietary tech and all but this is one that offers a significant performance increase at least to RTX users.. and DLSS is not limited to directx afaict based on games touted to implement it, also doesn't stop anyone from still using their non RTX cards, although I have a feeling it would lead to quite a few people buying 20 series cards for the sim.

I doubt tensor cores will be going away on nvidia gpu's in the future as well. There could well be a chance that as tensors gain capabilities for parts of the rendering pipeline that allows for being slightly less reliant on streaming processors, and shove more RT and Tensor cores on a die. But that's just speculation on my part.

That's not a knock on AMD.. competition is good in a free market, and it's good they're looking into DirectML.

AI enhanced graphics and gaming sounds pretty awesome to me, and much like the future. Deep Learning AI can drive a car. I wonder how well it could fly a virtual aircraft. ;) Not to mention AI driven cheat protection and other goodies purported for the NGX SDK.

Anyway.. the Radeon VII is definitely impressive... and hopefully a sign that AMD plans to keep nvidia on it's toes.

Oh, I didnt mean to be pushy or something mate. Just from my point of view, Nvidia DLSS is sort of limited. Especially in regard to resolution, as you've found yourslef, its limited only to 4k res. DirectML alternative according to AMD is not so it would benefit users across all resolutions and who knows, maybe even in VR. And it would benefit RTX cards just as much as any other GPUs.

I agree that Tensor cores are not going anywhere. Neither are RT cores. Both are mandatory for Ray Tracing.