[REPORTED] IFF possible with L&S designation within NCTR range

Tested on OB 2.5.4.29004. PG map. No mods. New mission.

 

Track included.

 

It seems like the L&S designation is enough for an NCTR print for IFF, although the target is not actually NCTR'd and remains as unknown aircraft type on the SA page (albeit a hostile one).

 

The following are in missions without donor aircraft.

 

It is possible to class a contact as hostile by simply making it the L&S target, under 3 conditions.

* LTWS is enabled

* NCTR is enabled

* The contact is within valid parameters for NCTR (range, angle)

 

Any other scenario works correctly:

* With LTWS disabled, a valid NCTR print through SST lock and a Mode 4 interrogation are needed.

* With NCTR disabled or outside valid parameters, and LTWS enabled, making a contact the L&S target does not class it as hostile (in fact, it's impossible to class it as hostile without enabling NCTR, which is in line with expected behavior).

FA-18C_IFF possible with L&S designation within NCTR range.trk

Edited March 28, 2019 by Harker
Correction

Tested on OB 2.5.4.29004. PG map. No mods. New mission.

 

Track included.

 

It is possible to class a contact as hostile by simply making it the L&S target, under 3 conditions.

* LTWS is enabled

* NCTR is enabled

* The contact is within valid parameters for NCTR (range, angle)

No Mode 4 interrogation is needed.

 

 

Any other scenario works correctly:

* With LTWS disabled, a valid NCTR print through SST lock and a Mode 4 interrogation are needed.

* With NCTR disabled or outside valid parameters, and LTWS enabled, making a contact the L&S target does not class it as hostile (in fact, it's impossible to class it as hostile without enabling NCTR, which is in line with expected behavior).

 

 

All of the above were in missions without donor aircraft.

 

 

 

Watch Wag's video...Mode 4 interrogation is automatic with LTWS enabled. Is is needed, and is interrogated. No bug there based on what's in your post.

However the aircraft does not get NCTR'd despite being marked hostile. That is a bug.

However the aircraft does not get NCTR'd despite being marked hostile. That is a bug.

Yeah, that too.

Watch Wag's video...Mode 4 interrogation is automatic with LTWS enabled. Is is needed, and is interrogated. No bug there based on what's in your post.

You're right about that, my bad. I'll edit my post.

 

It's still bugged though, since you need an NCTR print as well, without donors, and you don't get it in LTWS mode (I think), but you still get the hostile classification.

You're right about that, my bad. I'll edit my post.

 

It's still bugged though, since you need an NCTR print as well, without donors, and you don't get it in LTWS mode (I think), but you still get the hostile classification.

 

Wags was getting them(NCTR, M4, hostile symbology) in his video while in LTWS, so I think that is enough for both systems to interrogate the contact.

 

As far as the SA NCTR print, that sounds valid...I havent looked at the track personally

Wags was getting them(NCTR, M4, hostile symbology) in his video while in LTWS, so I think that is enough for both systems to interrogate the contact.

 

 

 

As far as the SA NCTR print, that sounds valid...I havent looked at the track personally

It's unclear if he has a donor or not, in the video. He just says that it runs an automatic Mode 4 interrogation.

 

If LTWS is enough for NCTR, then it should mark the aircraft type on the SA page, which it doesn't.

It's unclear if he has a donor or not, in the video. He just says that it runs an automatic Mode 4 interrogation.

 

If LTWS is enough for NCTR, then it should mark the aircraft type on the SA page, which it doesn't.

 

 

Yup, I’m with yah.

NCTR via LTWS? [TRACK ATTACHED]

 

So a bug was reported a bit ago about being able to identify something as hostile with only an LTWS L&S designation. However, I just noticed in Wags' datalink video when it initially came out, he said in the description NCTR requires an "L&S or STT" (also states in the manual). If you just L&S a target, it will not show an NCTR result on the SA format. So my question is, is LTWS L&S supposed to be able to get an NCTR print, and thus there is a bug where it doesn't show up on SA, or is it not supposed to be able to get an NCTR print, and thus there is a bug where planes are being designated hostile when they shouldn't (as reported in the linked bug post)?

 

I did a bit of investigating -- track attached. I believe the plane is indeed NCTR printing the target via LTWS, it's just not showing up on SA (again, let us know if this is correct behavior or not). I started the mission against another plane and at a high angle, so an NCTR couldn't be made. I had an L&S LTWS designation the entire time. Upon getting in range and within about 30 degrees of his tail, it became a hostile. SA page never displayed an NCTR ID so this is a bug even if LTWS is supposed to be able to do an NCTR.

 

I did another quick test and it does not seem to be the same case for the DT2.

LTWS NCTR test.miz.trk

Hey could this get a tag/response? There's definitely an issue here I think

Edit -- I've just done another test with NCTR off. After ensuring I was within range for NCTR (and aspect), the moment I turned NCTR on it ident'd hostile (again, no NCTR result on SA page and had LTWS L&S designation the entire time). Track attached

LTWS NCTR off.miz.trk

I think ED knows about this bug, not sure, but that maybe the reason why this hasnt been tagged yet.

Yeah re-reading the bug report I linked it actually says more of the same things I have said than I thought lol -- and that bug was marked as reported. Although, it would still be nice to see a clarification as to whether or not LTWS L&S NCTR is intentional, and it's just not showing on SA, or it's completely unintentional. I'm definitely less concerned about my own post being recognized than the bug being sorted out though haha
Edited April 16, 2019 by Jak525

Yes, it's one of the two.

Either NCTR is indeed possible through L&S but the SA page doesn't show the NCTR result,

or

NCTR requires STT right now and the L&S designation is erroneously taken as enough to IFF through NCTR.

Which raises the questions:

*If NCTR is possible through on the L&S, why not the DT2?

*Unless I'm mistaken, LTWS is simply a mode that allows the pilot to view trackfile information that is already present and simply not visible on the bricks.

*So, does marking a contact as L&S change the radar wave in any way, for that particular contact, so as to enable an NCTR print?

*If so, what's the difference in radar wave characteristics between L&S and DT2?

*On the other hand, if LTWS indeed does not involve any wave differences between bricks and marked contacts, shouldn't all contacts be NCTR'd by the RWS sweep anyway (no they shouldn't, but I'm just pointing the logic)

 

Unless I'm mistaken regarding the LTWS simply showing existing information, which makes the above points irrelevant.

Does NCTR printing affect and change HAFU symbols or is it an independent and alternate type of IFF assessment (with the results - plane's type - being shown on the SA page)? I thought only Mode 4 (SSS depress) is what changes HAFU symbols, apart from donors. Still learning!

 

Also, I noticed once a target is NCTR printed, the SA page never forgets the target's ID. Regardless of my position with that target and even with NCTR turned off, if I bring the cursor over that target again in SA, the target's ID will always show up. I suppose this is correct?

Does NCTR printing affect and change HAFU symbols or is it an independent and alternate type of IFF assessment (with the results - plane's type - being shown on the SA page)? I thought only Mode 4 (SSS depress) is what changes HAFU symbols, apart from donors. Still learning!

 

Also, I noticed once a target is NCTR printed, the SA page never forgets the target's ID. Regardless of my position with that target and even with NCTR turned off, if I bring the cursor over that target again in SA, the target's ID will always show up. I suppose this is correct?

It does indeed. You need a) Mode 4 + NCTR or b) Mode 4 + SURV or F/F donor. And yes, this is correct, the airplane stores trackfile information about the contact.

I might be confusing terms/concepts here but:

 

When IFF is ON in the UFC, what does it mean/do exactly? I know NCTR won't work automatically unless it is ON in RDR but SSS depress will work.

 

I understand Mode 4 as a "standard of interrogation" using radio signals. But what does Mode 4 mean in terms of what the pilot has to do? Does "get a Mode 4 on the target" mean the pilot performs an SSS depress over the target in the RDR page to get an updated HAFU reading?

 

Thanks!

I might be confusing terms/concepts here but:

 

When IFF is ON in the UFC, what does it mean/do exactly? I know NCTR won't work automatically unless it is ON in RDR but SSS depress will work.

 

I understand Mode 4 as a "standard of interrogation" using radio signals. But what does Mode 4 mean in terms of what the pilot has to do? Does "get a Mode 4 on the target" mean the pilot performs an SSS depress over the target in the RDR page to get an updated HAFU reading?

 

Thanks!

IFF on has to do with the IFF transponder in the plane. It turns that on.

 

Yes, it means SCS depress over the target on the RDRA TTK / SA format.