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DCS and Pimax


Wags

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Surely Rift/Vive are approx 10 PPD (1080/110), Vive Pro 13 PPD (1440/110) and Pimax 5K+ 15 PPD (2560/170).

 

 

Net exactly. That why I insist on that "per eye" part because a large part of FOV is the same. So Rift, Vive or any other 110FOV per eye have per eye around 100FOV per eye so in this case formula is

 

Rift/Vive - 1080 / 100 = 10.8 PPD around 10 ( that was my previous mistake made when I say 12)

Vive PRO/WMR - 1440 / 100 = 14.4 PPD around 14

Pimax 5K/8K - 2560 / 135 = 18.9 around 18

Why just 135FOV per eye? this 100 is common to all as the central FOV. Pimax is different have this 170FOV. 100 stay common but 70 is a peripheral vision which is going 35 on right and 35 on left side/eye whatever. That is more correct.

 

 

When you calculating resolution for both eye this only affecting when you are calculating the number of pixels to render and that could give you some picture about performances and it is not related with PPD but estimation of FPS.

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Net exactly. That why I insist on that "per eye" part because a large part of FOV is the same. So Rift, Vive or any other 110FOV per eye have per eye around 100FOV per eye so in this case formula is

 

Rift/Vive - 1080 / 100 = 10.8 PPD around 10 ( that was my previous mistake made when I say 12)

Vive PRO/WMR - 1440 / 100 = 14.4 PPD around 14

Pimax 5K/8K - 2560 / 135 = 18.9 around 18

Why just 135FOV per eye? this 100 is common to all as the central FOV. Pimax is different have this 170FOV. 100 stay common but 70 is a peripheral vision which is going 35 on right and 35 on left side/eye whatever. That is more correct.

 

 

When you calculating resolution for both eye this only affecting when you are calculating the number of pixels to render and that could give you some picture about performances and it is not related with PPD but estimation of FPS.

Sorry, but I just don't follow what you are saying. What does 'So Rift, Vive or any other 110FOV per eye have per eye around 100FOV per eye' mean?

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Sorry, but I just don't follow what you are saying. What does 'So Rift, Vive or any other 110FOV per eye have per eye around 100FOV per eye' mean?

 

It is because of 3D. Periferalvision you can see only with one eye so you can't calculate full FOV (what you can see with both eyes) for just one eye.

 

Make some experiments better understand. Look forward and close your hands in front of you and then start to spread until you lost it in your peripheral vision. So that is your real FOV.

 

Now close your left eye and move your left hand to the center until you start to see it again in your peripheral vision. You will see how less it is and you lose completely your left peripheral. Same is with the opposing side.

 

At 110FOV you don't see peripheral at all so this 10° is because of differences in eyes and 3D picture, basically for your pupilar distance.

I hope you understand now.

https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/67197/what-is-the-field-of-view-of-humans-not-just-fixed-angle-eyes

https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/28138/what-is-the-field-of-view-for-the-human-eyes


Edited by wormeaten
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Thanks for trying to enlighten me, but, no I still don't understand the point you are making. Whether something is in peripheral vision or not, it still has to be rendered. So, I would say that the PPD figure must simply be the number of horizontal pixels divided by the degrees of FOV in each headset, peripheral or not.

Not worth pursuing any further though, as the differences between the 3 devices are clear whatever the numbers.

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Thanks for trying to enlighten me, but, no I still don't understand the point you are making. Whether something is in peripheral vision or not, it still has to be rendered. So, I would say that the PPD figure must simply be the number of horizontal pixels divided by the degrees of FOV in each headset, peripheral or not.

Not worth pursuing any further though, as the differences between the 3 devices are clear whatever the numbers.

 

 

Check the links. I edit my answer.

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Thanks for trying to enlighten me, but, no I still don't understand the point you are making. Whether something is in peripheral vision or not, it still has to be rendered. So, I would say that the PPD figure must simply be the number of horizontal pixels divided by the degrees of FOV in each headset, peripheral or not.

Not worth pursuing any further though, as the differences between the 3 devices are clear whatever the numbers.

 

 

Rendering as I say is a different story and PPD don't have anything with rendering as performances. The resolution has and resolution for both eyes, not just one.

Even if it looks the same but because that slight change for the stereoscopic view you have basically two separate picture for rendering. That is why VR need twice as many performances than picture true monitor.

If you just rendering one picture and duplicate it this will be the same picture and without 3D same, as it is on the monitor.

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Dear all,

 

While it's too early to know exactly what will come from it, we are in touch with Pimax regarding their 8K system and how we can best cooperate for an amazing DCS VR experience.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

 

Thanks WAGS.

 

 

DCS can assist by going multi-thread...easing the GPU or CPU bottle neck problems.

 

 

PIMAX will help by adding clarity and peripheral vision to the equation.

 

 

Both are badly needed for an improved VR experience.

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I applaud DCS for its proactivity in working with VR OEM’s to make a great sim even better !

 

Wouldn't crown them yet, the post from Wags is over a year old and we haven't heard of a single takeaway from their meeting. Pimax HMD's are arriving and there isn't a PC on earth that will be able to drive DCS on it in a multiplayer server.

 

Also, DCS is probably the least optimized sim in any genre. I hate to be overly negative, but there isn't much to applaud.

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Rendering as I say is a different story and PPD don't have anything with rendering as performances. The resolution has and resolution for both eyes, not just one.

Even if it looks the same but because that slight change for the stereoscopic view you have basically two separate picture for rendering. That is why VR need twice as many performances than picture true monitor.

If you just rendering one picture and duplicate it this will be the same picture and without 3D same, as it is on the monitor.

 

Yes and no, the engine could use a single Draw call for both eyes, see Single pass stereo rendering shader and VRWorks - Single Pass Stereo. Prep3D use something similar and the fps rise to solid 90 from ~35.

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Yes and no, the engine could use a single Draw call for both eyes, see Single pass stereo rendering shader and VRWorks - Single Pass Stereo. Prep3D use something similar and the fps rise to solid 90 from ~35.

 

 

 

Infact Prepar3d has a nice option named single pass stereo and with it performance is great while with double pass is low...why dcs don’t have this option?

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  • 1 month later...

This just posted:

 

 

"

PimaxVR

 

 

 

 

 

Hi guys,

Some updates for you.

  1. we tested 90Hz/80Hz with Brainwrap 1.0 Beta, it works well.
    When turning on this feature, the games rendering >45Hz/40Hz will be acting as 90Hz/80Hz with better rendering quality.
  2. We’re testing 72Hz/64Hz with Brainwrap 1.0 Beta now,
    In this case, the games rendering >36Hz/32Hz is expected as 72Hz/64Hz with even better rendering quality.

Another good feature included in Brainwarp 1.0 is also under Beta test now.

fixed foveated rendering

FFR(fixed foveated rendering) is expected to get another 8-15% performance gain.

Currently, Pimax FFR could support RTX20XX series cards, the next step we’re trying on GTX10XX.

Notes: Pimax “Smart Smoothing” and “FFR” feature are generally supporting for almost games(>95%). The games or titles don’t need any changes.

Thanks for all of the above suggestions. Dallas will feedback a table with the status show our reactions on all valuable suggestions from the community."

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This is extremely good. I'm glad Pimax is improving its software to have more performance. Now we need what ED dcs has promised us: better vr in its game. We are looking forward to seeing these improvements. We need them to have a nice and smooth flight experience.

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This just posted:

 

 

"

PimaxVR

 

 

 

 

 

Hi guys,

Some updates for you.

  1. we tested 90Hz/80Hz with Brainwrap 1.0 Beta, it works well.
    When turning on this feature, the games rendering >45Hz/40Hz will be acting as 90Hz/80Hz with better rendering quality.
  2. We’re testing 72Hz/64Hz with Brainwrap 1.0 Beta now,
    In this case, the games rendering >36Hz/32Hz is expected as 72Hz/64Hz with even better rendering quality.

Another good feature included in Brainwarp 1.0 is also under Beta test now.

fixed foveated rendering

FFR(fixed foveated rendering) is expected to get another 8-15% performance gain.

Currently, Pimax FFR could support RTX20XX series cards, the next step we’re trying on GTX10XX.

Notes: Pimax “Smart Smoothing” and “FFR” feature are generally supporting for almost games(>95%). The games or titles don’t need any changes.

Thanks for all of the above suggestions. Dallas will feedback a table with the status show our reactions on all valuable suggestions from the community."

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Infact Prepar3d has a nice option named single pass stereo and with it performance is great while with double pass is low...why dcs don’t have this option?

 

It might. Check the last few pages of the VR improvments thread.

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It might. Check the last few pages of the VR improvments thread.

 

 

 

Yes i saw...there is some improvement but someone sees strange artifacts...i also saw it but not always...need to test more intensively

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Hey guys,

 

any news in here?

Has anybody else in here had trouble getting the PIMAX5K and DCS started via Steam? It only worked once and I had to shut down all Oculus processes running in the background before.

 

So far I haven't found out a way to get the DCS OB version startet from the Pi-Tool surface. Any suggestions here?

 

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Yes i saw...there is some improvement but someone sees strange artifacts...i also saw it but not always...need to test more intensively

 

It seems to sort of work, minor frame improvement on my end. I did finally see the artifacts but its mostly on load screens, not in flight with VR. OTOH I'm getting alot more crashes now, not sure if thats DCS or on the occulus end. Sometimes DCS keeps running in the mirrored window other times it dies. Also not sure if its a 2.5.4 thing, or the one pass parser or the shader mod.

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It seems to sort of work, minor frame improvement on my end. I did finally see the artifacts but its mostly on load screens, not in flight with VR. OTOH I'm getting alot more crashes now, not sure if thats DCS or on the occulus end. Sometimes DCS keeps running in the mirrored window other times it dies. Also not sure if its a 2.5.4 thing, or the one pass parser or the shader mod.

 

Quick update, turned off the parser and it seems more stable.

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Anyone tried brainwarp in DCS yet? I heard MRTV say its now available in the BETA PiTool or something like that. Also fixed foviated rendering.

 

I do not have a pimax, but am very interested if the brainwarp stuff works as well / better than the Rift's ASW?


Edited by NastyFruit
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Anyone tried brainwarp in DCS yet? I heard MRTV say its now available in the BETA PiTool or something like that. Also fixed foviated rendering.

 

I do not have a pimax, but am very interested if the brainwarp stuff works as well / better than the Rift's ASW?

 

I did and it is pathetic ~35fps (max 40) in a 2080ti, too bad they need at least 45 fps to turn on the ASW, but ED needs to hire a couple of good Graphic engineers. ED, why don't optimize your ****ing code?

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I did and it is pathetic ~35fps (max 40) in a 2080ti, too bad they need at least 45 fps to turn on the ASW, but ED needs to hire a couple of good Graphic engineers. ED, why don't optimize your ****ing code?

 

Holy crap! Were you able to enable the fixed foviated rendering as well? I also have a 2080ti (But only a rift CV1, did not realize the Pimax would be THAT much harder to drive.)

 

Hoping DCS can get some more VR optimizations soon!

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I did and it is pathetic ~35fps (max 40) in a 2080ti, too bad they need at least 45 fps to turn on the ASW, but ED needs to hire a couple of good Graphic engineers. ED, why don't optimize your ****ing code?

 

Patience, Wags has already stated it is on the list of things they are working on.

Just have to wait, we are on ED's time here...

:smilewink:

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Patience is a good thing. But fact remains DCS is by far the less performant flight sim, in VR, on the market.

A polite reminder is not untimely.

 

:)

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Lol... don't think they need reminders. They are always 3 steps ahead of what we are thinking.

Complexities are a real thing!

 

3 steps ahead and 45fps behind :(

 

Though to be fair, I think all the current hardware is getting taxed by VR, my other flight sims run a bit better than DCS, but they are still getting hammered. I'm genuinely hoping the big boys like NVIDIA and ATI are looking at ways to improve VR frames at the hardware level in their next gen cards. The current +10-20% performance bump every 2 years model they have isn't gonna cut it for VR.

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