Enemy radar detection triggering.

Does a directly-related to enemy radar detection trigger exist? :huh: :helpsmilie:

I'm trying to achieve this effect mixing "unit's altitude higher than..." and "unit in zone" rules, but it is muddled a lot, because I have to make a lot of trigger zone, according each terrain profile's variation in the path into detection area. I have also to assume that simply flying higher than X altitude for a moment I would be surely immediately detected... :music_whistling:

Enemy radar detection is automatic. i.e. Once you activate the radar unit it will detect and fire at preset ranges according to its radar & missile type. Terrain masking will break lock.

If you are trying to control the radar outside the AI presets then UNIT IN ZONE / UNITS ALT triggers on the A10c and GROUP AI ON and GROUP AI OFF on your Radar/SAM unit are your only options. There are no triggers specific to the Radar unit.

It's incredibly cumbersome to do any kind of radar detection simulation through the mission editor's trigger system, and partly for this reason one of the functions I'm including in the next version of my mission editor mod, "slmod", is a line of sight function. It sets a flag when certain, specified (set by the mission creator in the function call) units go line of sight to each other. Thanks for asking about this... I had forgot that I wanted to add an additional, optional, "radius" input variable that allows you to optionally specify a max distance between the two units beyond which the LOS check will not occur.

Taking this concept even further, it would be relatively simple to add a dedicated radar detection function sometime in the future that sets a flags based off of the conditions of being line of sight, inside a maximum range, relative velocity to the radar being greater than a simulated doppler notch velocity, whether or not you are sky-lined (to take into effect ground clutter), and time of exposure to the radar.

Maybe is better I explain myself more clear...

I'm building my own misson and I want to simulate an enemy forces alert due to a possible detection from a nearby SAM site's radar.

Part of flight path is into SAM range but into the mountains too, so you should have to fly low in the valleys to prevent detection.

My present objective is just to simulate the general alert of enemy forces if you are detected by SAM site's radar, but seems not to be a trigger that make this.

It would be nice if ED added a trigger to check for detection, ie. unit, group or coalition has detected other unit, group or coalition. This detection checking is done already anyways so maybe it wouldn't be too hard to add it to trigger rules. This would have lot's of use in missions to make AI react more believably to spotted enemies.

Maybe is better I explain myself more clear...

...

but seems not to be a trigger that make this.

Are you stating this fact, or are you asking a question? If you are asking a question, what is it? Seems like you're just stating a fact that no mission editor trigger condition exists for radar detection. And if you are stating this as a fact, yes, it is correct, but this is not the whole story, because very soon a mod will be available that lets you simulate radar detection with mission editor trigger logic in multiplayer games.

I'm stating the fact that seems to be in my knwoledge and I'm also implying the question: does someone know more than me about this?

But it seems you gave me already the answer: a further mod is needed to achieve this so it's not possible at the present, however not directly.

So for the time being I have to be satisfied with the indirect solution I found out.

It would be nice if ED added a trigger to check for detection, ie. unit, group or coalition has detected other unit, group or coalition. This detection checking is done already anyways so maybe it wouldn't be too hard to add it to trigger rules. This would have lot's of use in missions to make AI react more believably to spotted enemies.

This is a very good thing you could add to the following thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80228

I hope ED would read that before they'll release next patch so they could fulfill some of customers' expectations... ;)

I'm stating the fact that seems to be in my knwoledge and I'm also implying the question: does someone know more than me about this?

But it seems you gave me already the answer: a further mod is needed to achieve this so it's not possible at the present, however not directly.

So for the time being I have to be satisfied with the indirect solution I found out.

This is a very good thing you could add to the following thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80228

 

I hope ED would read that before they'll release next patch so they could fulfill some of customers' expectations...

Ok, thanks, I wasn't sure I was understanding you clearly.

I do believe that ED has mentioned that they would like to create internal scripting for an IADS- that is, an Integrated Air Defense System. IRL, SAM sites, early warning radars, probably AWACS , etc, can be data linked to share targets and respond to threats more intelligently. If the ED team does in fact make an IADS a reality, then I wouldn't be surprised at all if we got a "unit detected by radar" trigger. But most likely, you will have to wait till next module, or later. A good IADS isn't simple to program.

Also, understand that the development cycle is fairly slow. ED can't just make something like a "unit detected by radar" trigger condition appear out of thin air. They have A LOT of things they are trying to juggle, and I doubt that such a trigger is on their radar :) Even if they decided to make a trigger such as this, right now, off of these posts, the fact is we're starting to get patch notes for 1.1.1.0, meaning, the patch is just about to be released, so they aren't about to start adding new, major things to it.

Any news on this from ED?

Definitely a must have feature for me!

In MP use slmod that Speed created. Really neat tool.

Let's see if I'm detecting something here.

If you want to set a trigger based upon a Client being in a zone, it won't work. Nor will a Client trigger an event if it is destroyed, etc. A Client cannot take control of an airdrome, either - you have to send in units to do so.

The only way a Client can trigger something is when the Client destroys a placed unit or group.

I'd love to find out I'm wrong about this...

WC

Let's see if I'm detecting something here.

 

If you want to set a trigger based upon a Client being in a zone, it won't work. Nor will a Client trigger an event if it is destroyed, etc. A Client cannot take control of an airdrome, either - you have to send in units to do so.

 

The only way a Client can trigger something is when the Client destroys a placed unit or group.

 

 

I'd love to find out I'm wrong about this...

 

 

WC

Of course you can do that. A client works the same as a host or single player. The point here is that it's very difficult to create a sensible line of sight function with slmod.

I just uploaded a mission that has my trigger based system of this.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89866

It is extremely trigger intensive to make but it does work.

I just uploaded a mission that has my trigger based system of this.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89866

 

It is extremely trigger intensive to make but it does work.

What works? What is 'it' in your reply?

WC

Of course you can do that. A client works the same as a host or single player. The point here is that it's very difficult to create a sensible line of sight function with slmod.

More explanation, please? I'm missing your point.

WC

What works? What is 'it' in your reply?

 

WC

The mission I made as it relates to the title of this thread.

Azazel,

I will download it and check your triggers out. Will you give me a pointer to where in your trigger list I should look? Thanks.

WC

Azazel,

I will download it and check your triggers out. Will you give me a pointer to where in your trigger list I should look? Thanks.

 

WC

Haha, good news there. Pretty much all of them (and this is the small version of my SAM deck: I have a huge one that is more complex and covers all of the Russian side of the map (several hundred triggers)). Happy to talk you through it on TS. When the next DCS fighter comes out I'll be doing one for it too as it'll make much more sense/fun with a multirole flyable jet.

Azazel,

Are you saying that in your mission you can detect in trigger logic when a group or unit is painted by a radar?

And, are you saying that a Client can be detected in trigger logic being painted by a radar?

WC

Azazel,

Are you saying that in your mission you can detect in trigger logic when a group or unit is painted by a radar?

 

 

And, are you saying that a Client can be detected in trigger logic being painted by a radar?

 

 

WC

My work is not a mod (I don't know how to code at all). Yes I can detect when a unit is getting painted by a radar because there is a search radar handoff with the SAM radar on my RWR: S goes out and BB/15/2S6/17 comes up. Not sure if that is what you mean though?

Azazel,

No, that's not what I meant.

With trigger logic, many events can be detected (a Condition) and then something can happen as a result (an Action).

An AI aircraft or a Client aircraft being painted by a radar is not a trigger-able Condition. IME. That kind of condition cannot trigger an Action.

WC

I'd love to be able to set a radar/detect/spot trigger to the mission editor such that for example if i am flying into enemy airspace and i get detected, then i can set an action for migs to take off and intercept me... Come on ED, make that happen please!!!! !!!!

I'd love to be able to set a radar/detect/spot trigger to the mission editor such that for example if i am flying into enemy airspace and i get detected, then i can set an action for migs to take off and intercept me... Come on ED, make that happen please!!!! !!!!

Note the land.isVisible function:

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Simulator_Scripting_Engine_(DCS:_World_1.2.1)

and the slmod.units_LOS function:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1616590&postcount=447

Both allow you to simulate radar detection to a certain extent.

Also, for a mission scripting add-on library I'm working on, I'm thinking of doing a specialized radar detection model instead of just LOS and range detection- will need to include factors such as the doppler notch and whether the aircraft is against a ground or sky background.

besides the necessary use of a LOS function since there will be better solutions (SLmod one it's easier to use, as I can't write in lua), don't forget to take into account the earth roundness... that is not present in the sim.

for example, I simulated detection for a ground unit group in planar area with two LOS function, one for airborne things (which is limited to the sensors or eyes detection range, in my case 22 km), and another for vehicle that was 5 km, by assuming that our "detector" was positioned about 2 mt above ground level.