Capto glove - any users? Any good?

Hi, as the title suggests, anyone using this with VR? I wondered how easy it makes pointing and clicking the cockpit switches

What I have read is that they are pretty much vaporware. Difficult to set, configure and requires calibration etc. By those few who even have them.

Gotta be honest, love the immersion of VR but I would rather “fumble “ for a hard switch By muscle memory or click a virtual switch on a realistic dash with a mouse than have a virtual floating hand or tracker on my Hand flipping imaginary points in space. This destroys immersion in my world anyway and replaces it with the horrific image in my mind of looking like a complete dork to my family watching.

This of course is MY opinion and I am not calling anyone else a dork!

Gotta be honest, love the immersion of VR but I would rather “fumble “ for a hard switch By muscle memory or click a virtual switch on a realistic dash with a mouse than have a virtual floating hand or tracker on my Hand flipping imaginary points in space. This destroys immersion in my world anyway and replaces it with the horrific image in my mind of looking like a complete dork to my family watching.

This of course is MY opinion and I am not calling anyone else a dork!

Maybe you’ve never heard of PointCTRL. Better than captoglove type devices could ever really be, imho.

Noticed there are a lot more settings for captogloves in DCS now . ED is apparently taking them seriously . I haven't tried them myself , and prolly won't , but the "arm bending" setting i interpret as meaning no disembodied hands ?

So how do most of you VR guys manage the buttons then?

I use a mouse with trackball mounted on the side of my Warthog throttle.

So how do most of you VR guys manage the buttons then?

May not be most, but I use PointCTRL. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=218861

Gotta be honest, love the immersion of VR but I would rather “fumble “ for a hard switch By muscle memory or click a virtual switch on a realistic dash with a mouse than have a virtual floating hand or tracker on my Hand flipping imaginary points in space.

Have you tried any of hand tracking methods?

I can't go back to use mouse/keyboard with VR. It is as big immersion improvement to use hand tracking as it was to start using VR in first place.

I can't build each module to have unique own physical buttons and switches that would exist in the same location as the virtual cockpit has them. And I can't use unrealistic buttons and switches around me that ain't there*.

We need a ED to really implement a proper virtual hands in DCS, while waiting Oculus to bring official hand tracking to Rift S from Quest. As playing around with a Leap Motion (even official support for that would be nice, please ED!) to get it working is not so fun...

It is huge difference to see that you have specific switch/button/lever "right there", and you can just reach at it and see a glove (without arm) tied to your hand and you "just use it". Sure, there is no tactile feedback from touching them, but it doesn't really matter. Comparing it to situation where you would move hand to somewhere completely different place and try to remember what you are now touching while blind to it, is not at all same level.

It is so easy to learn and operate different aircrafts when the virtual cockpit is your cockpit. The different processes gets quickly to muscle memory and it is very fluid to fly around when your arm and hand moves around the virtual cockpit.

*limitation of the hardware

So how do most of you VR guys manage the buttons then?

I use a trackball , but VoiceAttack works well too . Ready-made VA profiles for DCS aircraft on the input/output page .

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=227717

All those VR gloves and finger-pointing devices can never compensate for your real-world equipment not corresponding 100% to the virtual world cockpit. Eventually you will be going to operate some switch or dial and bang in to your throttle, or a switch box, or even just your table top.

The coordination required to hold your hand hovering in the air -- not wavering or drifting off the virtual instrument floating in the air -- while you turn a dial or whatever will be not only very taxing but more and more difficult through fatigue the longer your flight session lasts.

Have you ever seen the instrument panels of an old aircraft? Ever notice all the warn down areas around switches and dials. They occur through many years the pilot's finger resting on the instrument panel to keep their hand from wavering while using dials and switches.

There's no need for a hovering hand in your virtual cockpit, which will never be coordinated with your real world equipment. You don't need 100% freedom to move your virtual hand within the 3 dimensional virtual room. You never need to have your pointer be anywhere other than exactly on a switch or dial when not on your HOTAS. All you need is a system to move the pointer from one switch to another and then to operate that switch or whatever. No in between positions, no accidentally moving off the switch. That can be operated completely with a cheap, easy to use mouse or a trackball.

100 time better solution for 1% of the cost.

I just use a HOTAS button mapped to one of the mouse UI buttons...

This setup and a trackball mouse for my stick hand seems to do the trick for me. The Virpil throttle has a 5 way switch that creates 5 individual controllers. I use 1 for startup, 2 for taxi and takeoff and landing. 3 flight, navi, refueling, 4 air to air, 5 air to ground. Once you develop the muscle memory there is no real fumbling and minimal movement of arms. Just one way to skin a cat...

Another vote for PointCTRL here

HOTAS + VR + PointCTRL + SimShaker = total immersion :thumbup::pilotfly:

As for Capto Glove... This thread might be helpful to get an idea of how well it works in DCS

Another vote for PointCTRL here

 

HOTAS + VR + PointCTRL + SimShaker = total immersion :thumbup::pilotfly:

 

 

As for Capto Glove... This thread might be helpful to get an idea of how well it works in DCS

And no VA/ Vaicom pro? Tut tut. Lol

All those VR gloves and finger-pointing devices can never compensate for your real-world equipment not corresponding 100% to the virtual world cockpit. Eventually you will be going to operate some switch or dial and bang in to your throttle, or a switch box, or even just your table top.

 

The coordination required to hold your hand hovering in the air -- not wavering or drifting off the virtual instrument floating in the air -- while you turn a dial or whatever will be not only very taxing but more and more difficult through fatigue the longer your flight session lasts.

 

Have you ever seen the instrument panels of an old aircraft? Ever notice all the warn down areas around switches and dials. They occur through many years the pilot's finger resting on the instrument panel to keep their hand from wavering while using dials and switches.

 

There's no need for a hovering hand in your virtual cockpit, which will never be coordinated with your real world equipment. You don't need 100% freedom to move your virtual hand within the 3 dimensional virtual room. You never need to have your pointer be anywhere other than exactly on a switch or dial when not on your HOTAS. All you need is a system to move the pointer from one switch to another and then to operate that switch or whatever. No in between positions, no accidentally moving off the switch. That can be operated completely with a cheap, easy to use mouse or a trackball.

 

100 time better solution for 1% of the cost.

I wonder about the practicalities of the VR style glove/hand tracking too. Having said that, I think there are possibly some easy workarounds such as the ability to inhibit selection of certain nuisance switches that you’re not likely to be wanting to select down near your elbow or perhaps even more simply, inhibiting the use of any switch not within say 20 degrees FOV. I think there are good workarounds available that have the potential to make VR use much better than it currently is but you’d need some pretty creative thinking and there’s a long way to go it would seem just on the technical capability too.

The VR cockpit is not aware of your arms or elbows*. VR only sees the IR-LEDs or reflectors imbedded in your gloves/whatever, depending on your system. Also waving your hand around the virtual cockpit should also not do anything.

Operating a switch requires using a specific gesture from my understanding. To flip a switch up or down, it's not enough to wave your hand past the switch. You have to point to the switch and then flick your finger up or down.

* I know there is full-body tracking, but I don't believe DCS does anything with that, thank goodness.

This setup and a trackball mouse for my stick hand seems to do the trick for me. The Virpil throttle has a 5 way switch that creates 5 individual controllers. I use 1 for startup, 2 for taxi and takeoff and landing. 3 flight, navi, refueling, 4 air to air, 5 air to ground. Once you develop the muscle memory there is no real fumbling and minimal movement of arms. Just one way to skin a cat...

What brand is the small keyboard?

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The VR cockpit is not aware of your arms or elbows*. VR only sees the IR-LEDs or reflectors imbedded in your gloves/whatever, depending on your system. Also waving your hand around the virtual cockpit should also not do anything.

 

Operating a switch requires using a specific gesture from my understanding. To flip a switch up or down, it's not enough to wave your hand past the switch. You have to point to the switch and then flick your finger up or down.

 

* I know there is full-body tracking, but I don't believe DCS does anything with that, thank goodness.

Hey Captain,

You really bring up a lot of good points. It sounds like you have tried some of the gloves or, just spent a lot of time critically thinking about this.

I found your "specific gesture" observation, to be spot on. I made a device to interact with DCS 3d cockpits a bit easier for me. I went through about 10 different iterations of interacting with switches and knobs.

I knew from the start that 3d tracking would present to many technical and employment issues. Just what you said about real world stuff being in the way when you try get to a switch.

I also did not want any laser coming from finger when I changed the orientation of my hand allowing the laser to reach anywhere in the cockpit just by pivoting mt wrist.

The answer was staring at me all along. DCS does a great job with its 3d cursor implementation and projecting it on the first surface it encounters.

I was then able to track an IR source in 2d space relative to my real hand location in the X, Y axis on the HMD. This allowed me to focus on the switch or control I wanted to interact with and reach out to it, and have the cursor be right where my hand is in real life in 2d space.

I now did not have to worry about the 3rd dimension and could intuitively put my hand where the switches are in any cockpit. If a real-world object was blocking the perceived location of the switch, you do not have to extend your arm all the way to the switch to have the ability to interact with it.

That be solved, I moved onto how to actually interact with the switch. I started with accelerometers and gyros. They worked perfect and allowed the left click on a quick pushing in/out motion for buttons, and could distinguish between an upward or downward flick of the finger for moving switched up or down.

But it felt like crap. Moving my finger in space to make a switch move just felt wrong and gimmicky, and most importantly, disconnected.

I moved on to touch pads, as the capability is built right into the microcontroller I was using on each finger device. This felt much better, was inexpensive, easy to implement, and made for a very slim design. But it still felt disconnected from the cockpit switch I was trying to control.

I then went through about 30 tactile buttons, everything from dome switches to 5 way hats until I found something that felt just about perfect to me. A sturdy tactile switch with excellent feedback when pressing, and a large button head.

This is what was missing for me. The feeling of pressing a button, hearing and feeling the click, as the virtual button or switch in the cockpit moved.

There were a bunch more benefits for me, especially large muscle memory and physical limitations of turning my body while keeping a hand on a mouse.

This is already about 10 times longer than it should be, but I wish we talked before I started going through design iterations, it would have saved me a lot of time.

PointCTRL is just another option, certainly not the best or the most hi-tech, but it does work well for our use because it was specifically designed for DCS.

Miles

What brand is the small keyboard?

 

 

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Koolertron. Cheap and easy to set up. I now have more buttons than functions. At least for what I fly.

All those VR gloves and finger-pointing devices can never compensate for your real-world equipment not corresponding 100% to the virtual world cockpit. Eventually you will be going to operate some switch or dial and bang in to your throttle, or a switch box, or even just your table top.[/Quote]

 

There is nothing than air around joystick and throttle. And throttle is on same position across aircrafts about every time, as throttle is lower than those virtual throttles.

 

It is simply not possible to "collide" with real controlled in VR and hand tracking as there is no such thing where to hit!

 

Some of us has been doing this already for year or two, and already built the proper "virtual cockpits".

 

People just don't know what they are missing when there is only throttle and joystick and pedals on floor, extremely simple setup as you don't need any table mounts or special chairs or such.

 

You can build PC inside a such chair, and it literally takes as much floor space as a normal office chair. Yet comfy, tactical and pretty.

 

That is the beauty of VR, the virtual reality IS your cockpit. No button boxes, no tables, no keyboards, no mouse, nothing than HOTAS and your hands...

Koolertron. Cheap and easy to set up. I now have more buttons than functions. At least for what I fly.

Thanks

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May not be most, but I use PointCTRL. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=218861

Yep, same here. PointCTRL... the way to go... :thumbup:

I use a trackball , but VoiceAttack works well too . Ready-made VA profiles for DCS aircraft on the input/output page .

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=227717

I use both VA and a trackball as well. I also have 3x TM MFD Cougars arranged in front of me in the F-18 config (and later will work perfect for the F-15E). The ability to reach out and touch the MFD buttons in the correct place is huge for the immersion.

VA has made some things SOOO much more intuitive. However, I still prefer to use the mouse for any switches in the cockpit that I don't have bound to the HOTAS. It seems more realistic to me than speaking a switch command. I tend to reserve VA to things that are not normal switches. Such as calling precontact with the tanker. Ot telling a wingman to attack a target or cover me or asking for Bogey dope.

YMMV.

This setup and a trackball mouse for my stick hand seems to do the trick for me. The Virpil throttle has a 5 way switch that creates 5 individual controllers. I use 1 for startup, 2 for taxi and takeoff and landing. 3 flight, navi, refueling, 4 air to air, 5 air to ground. Once you develop the muscle memory there is no real fumbling and minimal movement of arms. Just one way to skin a cat...

Nice setup btw

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