Jump to content

MiG-19P Navigation: The ARK-5 ADF


Zeus67

Recommended Posts

The ARK-5 Automatic Direction Finder (ADF) is an electronic aid to navigation that identifies relative bearing of the aircraft from a Non-Directional Beacon (NDB), a radio beacon transmitting in the MF or LF bandwith.

 

It consists for two antennas, a fixed one and a loop one. The loop antenna is rotated electronically to determine the direction of maximum reception from the beacon relative to the aircraft direction.

 

The ARK-5 is electronically connected to the GIK-1 Navigation Instrument’s thin needle which will rotate to indicate relative bearing to the tuned NDB station.

 

The ARK-5 has two frequencies memories, called FAR and NEAR. These frequencies can be automatically recalled by clicking on their control switch, located on the upper left bulkhead, below the frontal canopy frame.

 

Controls

The ARK-5 has the following controls:

1. A FAR/NEAR frequency selector switch. On the upper left bulkhead, below the frontal canopy frame.

2. Frequency Range Selector for the NEAR frequency. On the left bulkhead, near the Throttle Quadrant.

3. The main ARK-5 Control Panel on the right bulkhead:

a. Frequency Range Selector for the FAR/NDB frequency for navigation or approach.

b. Frequency fine tuning handle.

c. Operational Mode Selector.

d. Loop antenna control.

e. Signal Strength Gauge.

f. Telephony/Telegraphy Receiver Mode Selector.

g. Backlight intensity control.

h. Volume control.

i. NDB Ident code audio output, located in the RSIU-4V radio control panel.

Modes of Operation

The ARK-5 has four modes of operation:

• OFF: The ARK-5 is disconnected and non-operational.

• COMP (COMPASS): The ARK-5 is tuned to a frequency and the GIK-1 ADF needle will show relative bearing to the NDB station.

• ANT (ANTENNA): The ARK-5 frequency can be changed to a different one. The GIK-1 ADF needle will freeze until the ARK-5 is placed in COMP mode again.

• LOOP: In this mode, the loop antenna is in manual mode. The pilot will rotate it by using the LOOP spring switch. The GIK-1 ADF needle will show the current antenna direction.

 

How to operate

a) Set the ARK-5 mode to ANT.

b) Select the frequency memory that will be used, FAR or NEAR, by clicking on the frequency selector switch.

c) Select the desired frequency range by using the appropriate Frequency Range Selector. NEAR selector is in the left bulkhead, FAR selector is in the ARK-5 control panel.

d) Move the fine-tuning handle until the desired frequency is tuned.

e) Check the signal strength gauge.

f) Set the ARK-5 mode back to COMP. The GIK-1 ADF needle will start indicating bearing to the NDB station.

 

How to use the ARK-5 for NDB navigation

a) Select a frequency memory: FAR or NEAR.

NOTE: FOR NAVIGATION SELECTION OF THE FAR/NEAR SWITCH POSITION IS IRRELEVANT

b) Set the ARK-5 to ANT.

c) Tune to the selected NDB by following the How to Operate instructions.

d) Set the ARK-5 to COMP.

e) Use the GIK-1 ADF needle as required.

 

How to use the ARK-5 for Low Visibility Landings

The selected airport should have at least one marker station. It works better if it has two: Outer and Inner Marker stations.

a) Select the ARK-5 to ANT

b) Select the FAR frequency memory.

c) Tune to the airport’s OUTER MARKER station frequency by following the How to Operate instructions.

d) Check the gauge to confirm that you are receiving a signal.

e) Select the NEAR frequency memory.

f) Tune to the airport’s INNER MARKER station frequency by following the How to Operate instructions.

g) Check the gauge to confirm that you are receiving a signal.

h) Select the FAR frequency memory.

i) Set the ARK-5 to COMP.

j) Maneuver the aircraft until the GIK-1 ADF needle is centered.

k) Select the NEAR frequency memory.

l) Maneuver the aircraft until the GIK-1 ADF needle is centered.

m) Toggle between FAR and NEAR to confirm that for both frequencies the GIK-1 ADF needle is centered.

 

NOTE: When the GIK-1 ADF needle is centered in both FAR and NEAR, you are aligned with the airport’s runway.


Edited by Zeus67

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love to learn the system’s of the aircraft. I’m currently re-learning the Mig-15 while waiting for this module’s release, as I’m curious to experience first hand all the changes between fighter generations :)

 

For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Zeus67,

 

The ARK-5 has two frequencies memories, called FAR and NEAR. These frequencies can be automatically recalled by clicking on their control switch, located on the upper left bulkhead, below the frontal canopy frame.

 

 

Just to be sure and as I'm not old enough to have real world experience in MiG-15 or MiG-19, I only can compare to the MiG-15 in DCS.

 

Are these the same instruments?

 

As of your description it sounds to me, that MiG-19 ARK-5 stores frequencies (selected by tuning crank handle) to the corresponding frequ. range (selected for NEAR on the left wll and FAR on the ARK-5 main control device right wall) in the FAR/NEAR positions.

 

In MiG-15, the FAR/NEAR switch will only change frequ. range and not the tuned frequ. So for this FAR/NEAR switching from OM to IM the tuning crank has to be in the same position. This works only for a couple of airfields in Caucasus map. I think it's Anapa (OM 443, IM 215) and Beslan(1050 OM 250 IM). So in FAR position ARK-5 control is runted to OM, for the NEAR position, on of the three switches in the left cockpit wall is set so the requency range of the IM. Switching to NEAR, the frequency range scale snaps to the bandwith selected for the IM. The tuning crank handle will stay where it is.

 

Thanks for further clarification.

 

Regards

Jens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Zeus67,

 

 

 

Just to be sure and as I'm not old enough to have real world experience in MiG-15 or MiG-19, I only can compare to the MiG-15 in DCS.

 

Are these the same instruments?

 

As of your description it sounds to me, that MiG-19 ARK-5 stores frequencies (selected by tuning crank handle) to the corresponding frequ. range (selected for NEAR on the left wll and FAR on the ARK-5 main control device right wall) in the FAR/NEAR positions.

 

In MiG-15, the FAR/NEAR switch will only change frequ. range and not the tuned frequ. So for this FAR/NEAR switching from OM to IM the tuning crank has to be in the same position. This works only for a couple of airfields in Caucasus map. I think it's Anapa (OM 443, IM 215) and Beslan(1050 OM 250 IM). So in FAR position ARK-5 control is runted to OM, for the NEAR position, on of the three switches in the left cockpit wall is set so the requency range of the IM. Switching to NEAR, the frequency range scale snaps to the bandwith selected for the IM. The tuning crank handle will stay where it is.

 

Thanks for further clarification.

 

Regards

Jens

 

Yes, we are aware of the problem with Caucasus map and ARK-5 physical limitations. That is the reason why we implemented the ARK-5 FAR/NEAR function this way. We believe that it is better to maintain the functionality, in this case the ability to use two different stations as a landing aid, over the real life limitation.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally think, that is better implement ARK-5 like was in reality, i'm sure that users will able deal with any ARK's limitations without any problems. We are here for flying not for judging and improving the past.

 

I am not improving the past but enabling a function that no longer works due to changes made to the airports in the intervening time (50 years at least!). A landing aid that no longer works is as good as no landing aid at all. This way you get a working low visibility landing aid, which was the goal behind the FAR/NEAR logic.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, we are aware of the problem with Caucasus map and ARK-5 physical limitations. That is the reason why we implemented the ARK-5 FAR/NEAR function this way. We believe that it is better to maintain the functionality, in this case the ability to use two different stations as a landing aid, over the real life limitation.

 

Mmmhh... hard decision.

On the one hand simulating things should be as near as possible to reality but can cut corners, on the other hand we live with the map data right now.

 

We only have some RSBN/PRMG stations for the L-39, we can only use the ARK-5 FAR/NEAR in MiG-15 with a limited number of airfields. For all other airfields it works with the outer marker quite good.

As fan of the MiG-Series fighters, it'll be a question of acquaintance with the same system modelled differently.

 

So I guess there are no guidelines coming from ED for developers how to integrate systems in there modules compared to how they are modelled in existing systems.

 

Regards

Jens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS is not reality. Very, very far from it actually ;)

 

While I don't like cut corners, this is one of those special occasions when "close enough"

is good enough. Just like the RWR and other sensitive and classified systems are handled within DCS, this is also one of those "more important to keep functionality items". It does what it is supposed to. Age of map should not be a limiting factor useing this aircraft mainly flown in the 1960's. Im with Zeus67 on this one.

 

Maybe add as a special option for the real hardcore simmers, but I think that this is a good decision for most of DCS MiG-19P flyers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmhh... hard decision.

On the one hand simulating things should be as near as possible to reality but can cut corners, on the other hand we live with the map data right now.

 

We only have some RSBN/PRMG stations for the L-39, we can only use the ARK-5 FAR/NEAR in MiG-15 with a limited number of airfields. For all other airfields it works with the outer marker quite good.

As fan of the MiG-Series fighters, it'll be a question of acquaintance with the same system modelled differently.

 

So I guess there are no guidelines coming from ED for developers how to integrate systems in there modules compared to how they are modelled in existing systems.

 

Regards

Jens

 

Well, the real problem is the time interval between when the system was used to present day. In this case it is nearly 50 years. Now those airports have ILS, TACAN and VORTACs for navigation and landing aid. The days of the ADF are long past, to the point that modern aircraft do not even include the system anymore.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS is not reality. Very, very far from it actually ;)

 

While I don't like cut corners, this is one of those special occasions when "close enough"

is good enough. Just like the RWR and other sensitive and classified systems are handled within DCS, this is also one of those "more important to keep functionality items". It does what it is supposed to. Age of map should not be a limiting factor useing this aircraft mainly flown in the 1960's. Im with Zeus67 on this one.

 

Maybe add as a special option for the real hardcore simmers, but I think that this is a good decision for most of DCS MiG-19P flyers.

 

No need for a special option. If you want hardcore, all you have to do is set the frequency range and do not move the fine tuning handle when using NEAR.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RSBN and PRMG beacons were first implemented in the Caucasus map just for the MiG-21 module. Can we think about an additional set of ADF beacons that are activated, seen and used exclusively by all these old generation aircraft ? Something like infrastructure layers.

I too am attracted by the genuine limitations of old hardware and using it as designed, that's the point, otherwise I would always fly the F-15C.

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not improving the past but enabling a function that no longer works due to changes made to the airports in the intervening time (50 years at least!). A landing aid that no longer works is as good as no landing aid at all. This way you get a working low visibility landing aid, which was the goal behind the FAR/NEAR logic.

 

But you don't have to change ARK-5 funcionality to achieve this. Just implement something what existed at MiG-19 service period - mobile NDB mounted on the truck PAR-8:

 

http://aviaros.narod.ru/par-8.htm

 

Then users are able add radio aids for every airfield and set frequencies. Good idea is aswell implementation of visual lantern which was popular at that time - KNS-1P. She was visible up to 30 km, and was sending visual Morse code.

 

https://www.google.pl/search?q=%D0%9A%D0%9D%D0%A1-1%D0%9F&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKsc2vjqrgAhUDPVAKHQ9eBgsQ_AUICSgA&biw=1904&bih=925&dpr=1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Voting for leaving the MiGs realistic and asking ED for old NDB's(which seems to be not much more complex than adding some fields into the navaids frequencies and coordinates table). And we can wait till they implement it.

ППС  АВТ 100 60 36  Ф <  |  >  !  ПД  К

i5-10600k/32GB 3600/SSD NVME/4070ti/2560x1440'32/VPC T-50 VPC T-50CM3 throttle Saitek combat rudder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No need for a special option. If you want hardcore, all you have to do is set the frequency range and do not move the fine tuning handle when using NEAR.

 

Ah, sounds good. So no pre-programming in ME tab, just tuning in cockpit. As long as it's aligned, there will be no offset for the tuning crank? :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh I'm quite happy with this solution. I'm fed up of having to set up stuff in the ME - alter old missions etc. I think this is a good idea to give some navigation functions, especially in multiplayer where the older A/C features might be missed.

 

 

+1 on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There seems to be a misconception that the MiG-19's ARK-5 has some sort of feature that would require editing in the mission editor (in which case I could see value in such an alteration that lets us do it from within the game instead), but this is not the case. The ARK-5 does not have any sort of preset frequencies or whatsoever.

 

I think some of the confusion stems from the recent

video which incorrectly describes the ARK-5 as having up to 3 predefined radio frequencies, as well as older versions of the DCS: MiG-15 which also incorrectly used 3 preset frequencies in NEAR mode. The ARK-5 behaviour in the DCS: MiG-15 has since been rectified: now the only thing NEAR mode does now is override the frequency range selector on the ARK-5 panel with a frequency range selected with one of three switches. This is exactly how the ARK-5 in the MiG-19 is supposed to work as well, but instead of having three switches for our NEAR frequency range selection, we now have a much more intuitive dial just like the one on the ARK-5 panel itself. In case anyone is wondering why you would want the NEAR / FAR selector to change just the frequency range but not the tuned frequency, the frequencies on the INNER / OUTER NDBs of the airfields are spaced out in in such a way that your ARK-5 will already be tuned correctly by changing only the frequency range, so that you can use the NEAR / FAR switch to toggle between the inner and outer beacon.

 

And with that in mind, I really cannot see a compelling reason for altering the ARK-5 behaviour. There is (to the best of my knowledge) just one and a half airfield in the Caucasus map that have two beacons where the frequencies are not set up correctly for this: Kobuleti (490.00KHz / 870.00KHz), and runway 13 of Tblisi-Lochini (923.00 KHz / 342.00 KHz) (runway 31 with 435.00 KHz / 211.00 KHz works fine).

 

I just spent some time playing around with the ARK-5 in the MiG-15, and using the NEAR / FAR selector in a 'realistic' way works fine for most airfields. There are four airfields (Krysmk, Maykop, Mozdok and Sukhumi) where I had to tune the frequency sligthly when switching between frequency ranges. In the case of Sukhumi with the MiG-15 going from 498.00 KHz to the 640-1300 KHz range results in a frequency of 998.00 Khz which unfortunately tunes me in to Gelendzhik (1000.00 KHz) instead of Sukhumi's other beacon (995.00 KHz) despite that the Gelendzhik beacon is 300 kilometers further away. Personally I'd be much happier to see the MiG-19 have a 'realistic' implementation of the ARK-5 identical to that of the MiG-15, that instead 'fixes' these small tuning issues (i.e. have the ARK-5 select a beacon with perhaps a tiny bit more leeway in the frequency tuning, but also take distance into account to prevent the wrong beacon from being 'selected'), instead of implementing frequency memory (functionality that the real ARK-5 never had).

 

With all that said, so long as the only difference with the added frequency memory is truely just

If you want hardcore, all you have to do is set the frequency range and do not move the fine tuning handle when using NEAR.
then it shouldn't really get in the way too much either. Still, my personal preference is for keeping the system just as simple as its real-life counterpart.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the difference between the real ARK-5 device and the simulated one:

 

If any of you had ever seen a pre-WWII radio, you would have noticed that they were big, heavy and had buttons for different frequency ranges, usually SW and MW.

 

An old family friend had one. That specific radio had buttons for SW1, SW2, MW1, MW2, MW3 frequency ranges, with a single frequency tuning knob. That radio must have cost a pretty coin in its day.

 

Anyway, in the back I noticed that the tuning knob moved a series of disks. Each disk corresponding to a frequency range.

The knob moved all these disks at the same time, and the buttons selected which disk was doing the frequency tuning.

All the disks began at the same 0 point, but the disks did not have the same circumference range. They had notches where the frequency range ended.

 

Here is the problem with the simulated ARK-5. We have the same disks, but since we do not have a sample device, all these disks are the same length. So what happens when you move a specific frequency disk, like the 310-640? So if the disk was at the middle of the frequency range for 310-640, which should be 475Khz, that middle position is not exactly the middle position for the 640-1300 and the 150-310 frequency ranges. But, since we are assuming that all three disks are the same length, we calculate the middle frequency for the other two ranges: 150-310 and 640-1300. But these calculated frequencies are not exactly the real ones, and thus you need to fine tune.

 

My decision to implement the two memories was based on this: the need to fine tune the NEAR frequency due to the inaccuracies in the frequency calculation. In real life, there was no need to do that.


Edited by Zeus67

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a HAM this explanation made me cringe a bit in its simplicity... But thanks Zeus...

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a HAM this explanation made me cringe a bit in its simplicity... But thanks Zeus...

 

LMAO. It is very simple, but it is the best way I could explain why it is difficult to calculate exact frequencies for different ranges based on the dial position.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I like the systems as they are. Only thing I wish for is the ability to tune with the kneeboard as the MiG-15 does. This is My shortcoming and not the modules. Its hard for me to figure out when I am on the right station. It will probably not be an issue when I figure out how to read morse code.

 

EDIT: MORSE code in hand. Now I'm cooking w hot grease!


Edited by Maico249th
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...