Cold War 1947 - 1991

The MiG-23 is in a funny place because it would rip apart the 1970s planes we have now and be a bit better than even a slatted F-4E. Yet it's worse than its historical opponents, the F-14A, F-15A/C and F-16A/C. If you limit the weapons and add in a MiG-29 with R-27R/T, you can get a very balanced set against 1980's F-15 (AIM-7F/M), F-16 (only AIM-9s!) and F-14A (only 2x AIM-54A's and limited in number).

 

One thing I have always dreamed of was something like 1982 Lebanon or Desert Storm - lots of MiG-21's MiG-23's and MiG-25's (if only that were a DCS module) against the F-15C, F-16C, F-14A and F-4E. For Desert Storm, you'd add the MiG-29A/S and F/A-18.

 

These would be fun historical counterparts especially if you limit the Blues to few or no AIM-54s. But this kind of thing is a long way off since we are waiting for quite a few planes/features.

 

Just thinking out loud.

That'd be a different server set than what I have here. Very intriguing and exciting no doubt, but it would probably require me to host a second server with yet new missions and a load of work among other matters that would require some attention.

I work alone and love doing what I do. However, running two servers would require me to probably give up a thing or two in real life. Can't let that happen. One's got to keep things on en even keel :smilewink:

I could however design just one mission with a Gulf War or Lebanon War or Syrian War etc. scenario and run it once or twice a week. Or not. Who knows...

Let the modules come and we'll see what happens. Too early for futuristic plans.

That'd be a different server set than what I have here. Very intriguing and exciting no doubt, but it would probably require me to host a second server with yet new missions and a load of work among other matters that would require some attention.

I work alone and love doing what I do. However, running two servers would require me to probably give up a thing or two in real life. Can't let that happen. One's got to keep things on en even keel :smilewink:

I could however design just one mission with a Gulf War or Lebanon War or Syrian War etc. scenario and run it once or twice a week. Or not. Who knows...

Let the modules come and we'll see what happens. Too early for futuristic plans.

Absolutely no pressure! You do so much already for us with little in return.

If you do one day have that kind of server, awesome! If not, then that's cool too because we have your already excellent server up and running. Keep up the great work! :thumbup:

...

 

One thing I have always dreamed of was something like 1982 Lebanon or Desert Storm - lots of MiG-21's MiG-23's and MiG-25's (if only that were a DCS module) against the F-15C, F-16C, F-14A and F-4E. For Desert Storm, you'd add the MiG-29A/S and F/A-18.

 

...

Both these incidents ended very badly for the migs, without any Aim54. Regardless of pilot skills, the migs were badly outclassed. The mig 21 at least gave a good fight in the 60s/early 70s conflicts.

Both these incidents ended very badly for the migs, without any Aim54. Regardless of pilot skills, the migs were badly outclassed. The mig 21 at least gave a good fight in the 60s/early 70s conflicts.

I hear you but I do not think it applies to setting up a server with these scenarios. If the records of real-life planes accurately predicted their capability in game, we would be seeing totally different results. The MiG-21's in Vietnam only ever had the worst rear-aspect AA-2 (R-3S) missiles at their disposal yet they did pretty well against US aircrews than what the US had expected primarily because of pilot skill or lack thereof on the US side - at least initially before Top Gun. Can you imagine if we put the best F-4 and F-8 with the best Vietnam-era tech in-game against MiG-21's with no special afterburner or missiles other than the R-3S? I bet you'd see the MiG's getting demolished which means there's something going on that's different:

For the Lebanon war, the MiGs had no chaff, flare or all aspect heaters. I am not even sure if the MiG-23MF's had BVR missiles. Then again, the Israeli's had no jammers and had to rely on chaff and flare launchers that were inferior to what we have in-game. We can easily slap on the right weapons to balance the server.

But most importantly, per Moscow's Lessons from the 1982 Lebanon Air War by B. Lambeth:

"... anonymous senior IAF officer: 'The problem was that [syrian] pilots didn't do things at the right time or in the right place. They flew in a way very difficult to understand.... The pilots behaved as if they were going to be shot down and waited to see when it was going to happen and not how to prevent it or how to shoot us down.' Reflecting on this lack of aggressiveness and initiative (and apparent unfamiliarity with air combat) displayed by the Syrians, he added:. 'They could have flown the best fighter in the world, but if they flew it the way they were flying we would have shot them down in exactly the same way. It wasn't the equipment at fault, but their tactics.' "

This is where the DCS pilots shine because we have the luxury of respawns, and lots and lots of practise to even out the score.

Just because these planes got whacked in real life doesn't mean they will in these servers. Otherwise F-15's would never get shot down, MiG-29's would never score any kills but we see the opposite. Bottom line: There's much more to consider than just the planeset.

I was referring to text chats, announcements, and just a community for guys who love cold war era jets to talk about it, in real time. Also another way for guys to tell others to hop on the server to try and populate it. Not for ingame communication, since srs and ts is better suited for that.

For this you could go to the WingmanFinder discord and @21 to notify all the mig-21 pilots you're going into Cold War server.

I've subscribed today and hope this will help me link up with more cold war junkies, beyond just dropping in and seeing who's on.

For Arab MiG performance, this six part series by Tom Cooper is very enlightening https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-myth-of-soviet-arms-and-tactics-in-the-middle-east-part-one-from-palestine-war-to-suez-crisis/amp

For Arab MiG performance, this six part series by Tom Cooper is very enlightening https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-myth-of-soviet-arms-and-tactics-in-the-middle-east-part-one-from-palestine-war-to-suez-crisis/amp

Great find! Thanks!

Hi Alpenwolf,

We flew the Abu Dabhi mission the other night and would have needed the 25A for some pounding of enemy ground forces. I cant amplify this enough since there is always something to pound on every mission. The 25A group has grown together with the 25T, but as you said, the 25A is a more realistic option to have. Only 2 extra planes per every mission would be a fantastic start.

Just an addition to that.. is there a way to always have enough R60M missiles for the 25A? The reason for that is that when the 60M’s run out then we are not able to load the 60’s since it does not apply to it. We become sitting ducks on the field.

I got some feedback from the Red Devils Hilo team and they are asking politely if the flight distances for the Hilos can be reduced. They are all counting Goats on their long flights between objectives.. and are really starting to annoy the hell out of the fixed wing team with their boring jokes.. :/

Hi Alpenwolf,

 

We flew the Abu Dabhi mission the other night and would have needed the 25A for some pounding of enemy ground forces. I cant amplify this enough since there is always something to pound on every mission. The 25A group has grown together with the 25T, but as you said, the 25A is a more realistic option to have. Only 2 extra planes per every mission would be a fantastic start.

 

Just an addition to that.. is there a way to always have enough R60M missiles for the 25A? The reason for that is that when the 60M’s run out then we are not able to load the 60’s since it does not apply to it. We become sitting ducks on the field.

 

I got some feedback from the Red Devils Hilo team and they are asking politely if the flight distances for the Hilos can be reduced. They are all counting Goats on their long flights between objectives.. and are really starting to annoy the hell out of the fixed wing team with their boring jokes.. :/

I wanted for the first time to have a mission without Su-25's and A-10's, though include "easier" AG tasks. I took my MiG-21 with 2 Grom missiles and rocket pods (no AA missiles) and was able to clear Dhafar's garrison in one sortie (4-5 ground units to destroy). It was doable because the MiG's were holding the bandits far away from the bullseye area. The point is, a striker doesn't really need any AA missiles if enough fighters/interceptors are escorting him or at least executing a proper CAP.

This scenario is more of an experiment to see how things play out without strikers. Doesn't mean I wont add strikers to the mission at some point and as such fortify the captured airbases.

When restricting the warehouses, the R-60M's are thrown out of the arsenal, which renders the Su-25's rather defenceless. I know that. I had hoped this would encourage players to fly escort missions, especially when talking about squadron members who know each other and would easily support one another.

As to the long distances to cover for helicopter pilots, well, I can't move the airbases around, got to deal with what I have. 6 x transport helicopters on each side for possible 4 x airbases to capture sounds doable to me. Imagine having at least 4 pilots dedicated to transport missions. In 1 hour you'd have captured at least 2 airbases in a mission running for 8 hours. It shouldn't always be easy and close enough and fast to complete. Most of the missions I have are like that. The last 2 however (Once Upon a Time in Abu Dhabi and Five points Unleashed) are different as you can see and offer some change. A mini replica of a BlueFlag scenario so to speak.

Server News:

- The Combined Arms Tournament 2 will be hosted tomorrow on the Cold War server around 1900 zulu.

- You can still sign up if you're interested in such an event: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=267308

- A new mission is ready to go. Operation Battle Over Sukhumi Unleashed. Basically based on my very first mission, Battle Over Sukhumi City. However, more dynamic and similar to the last 2 missions.

- The new mission will be online either tomorrow after the event or Sunday evening around 2000 zulu or so.

- Details regarding the new mission will be published soon.

S!

Five Points Unleashed was awesome tonight, SU25’s were doing air cover for our 3 Hilos and ground pounding. We even fought away the F5’s that were supporting the Hueys that were inbound for Krasnodar. We only had 1 MiG21 and he had issues with connection so we could not rely on him.

Thank you for allowing the 25’s to have the R60M’s.. they REALLY came handy! Guns would have not been enough.

Struggled a bit with the SAM’s at Novorossiysk, so we will definitely bring in the KA50 next time :)

[RED DEVILS]-NELLUS

Five Points Unleashed was awesome tonight, SU25’s were doing air cover for our 3 Hilos and ground pounding. We even fought away the F5’s that were supporting the Hueys that were inbound for Krasnodar. We only had 1 MiG21 and he had issues with connection so we could not rely on him.

Thank you for allowing the 25’s to have the R60M’s.. they REALLY came handy! Guns would have not been enough.

Struggled a bit with the SAM’s at Novorossiysk, so we will definitely bring in the KA50 next time :)

 

[RED DEVILS]-NELLUS

You guys are trouble for the Blue team :smilewink:

@ Viggen pilots:

Need some info for the new mission which will go online tonight:

What are the names of the anti-ship missiles and how good are they compared to one another?

Cheers!

RB04: easy to use

RB15: one of the most modern missile in DCS. More powerfull, greater range, very flexible

RB04: easy to use

 

 

RB15: one of the most modern missile in DCS. More powerfull, greater range, very flexible

Thanks!

And the rest? I thought there were more than 2?

EDIT:

Got the info via pm. No need for any further posts in that regard. Thank you all!

Operation: Battle Over Sukhumi Unleashed

Situation:

Red operates from Sochi and Blue operates mainly from Kutaisi, but has a secondary airbase available at Batumi. Furthermore, each coalition has one active FARP. Red's is the Valley FARP and Blue has a FARP by the city of Zugdidi by the name of Zeni FARP. Both FARP's are marked on the F10 map.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capture the following bases (marked as yellow circles) to win:

- Gudauta
- Sukhumi
- Senaki-Kolkhi
- Kobuleti
- FARP Valley
- FARP Zeni

Note:
Teamwork is the key! Use SRS and get on comms.

Red Objectives:

Capture and hold the following airbases and FARP's to win the day:
Gudauta, Sukhumi, Senaki-Kolkhi and Kobuleti.
FARP Valley and FARP Zeni.

***************************************************************

MiG's, L-39's, and MiG-29A's:

- Provide escort for strikers.
- Provide CAP at friendly airbases and FARP's.

*** MiG-29A's ***

Waypoints:
1- Valley FARP (friendly at mission's start)
2- Zeni FARP (hostile at mission's start)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Su-25's, Mi-24's, and Ka-50's:

- At each hostile airbase or FARP there is a garrison that must be destroyed.
- The garrisons include AAA's and IR SAM's only.
- However, watch out for possible SAM batteries deployed by UH-1's.
- The enemy's main airbase, Kutaisi, is surrounded by a number of Hawk SAM sites.
- Attacking the enemy's main airbase is strictly prohibited.

Su-25's Waypoints:
1- Valley FARP (friendly at mission's start)
2- Zeni FARP (hostile FARP at mission's start)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mi-8's:

- Your top priority objective is deploying friendly units to capture airbases and FARP's!
- You can also deploy SA-6 SAM batteries anywhere you see fit among other assets.
- You can pick up crates at any airbase or FARP we capture.

Mi-8's -> Picking up crates:
Bring up your radio menu, select F10 for CTLD and then whatever type of crates you want to pick up.

For picking up a crate, maintain hover over it for 5 seconds while keeping an altitude of at least 7.5 meters and a maximum altitude of 15 meters.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combined Arms:

The 2 cmdr slots are for players controlling ground units while being on SRS with each other and other players to coordinate their attacks.
You MUST be on SRS as a cmdr operator!
You can use the JTAC slot to drive a ground unit. However, that requires you being on comms with cmdr operators to avoid confusion and/or causing problems to their attacks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequencies:

EWR / GCI: 124 MHz - Channel 0 for MiG-21's and L-39's. Channel 2 for MiG-19's. Mi-24's R-863 - Channel 0
EWR-MiG-15 (Callsign: 15): 4.95 MHz (tuned in by default)

FARP Podkova: 127.5 MHz - Mi-24's R-863 - Channel 18
Podkova NDB: 433 kHz

ATC: 126 MHz - Channel 5 for MiG-21's and MiG-19's. Channel 1 for L-39's.

Jadro 1A for comms for Mi-8's and Mi-24's only: 035500 KHz, AM

FARP Valley: 129.5 MHz
FARP Zeni: 122.5 MHz

Blue Objectives:

Capture and hold the following airbases and FARP's to win the day:
Gudauta, Sukhumi, Senaki-Kolkhi and Kobuleti.
FARP Valley and FARP Zeni.
***************************************************************

F-5's, F1's, F-86's, F-14A's and C-101's:

- Provide escort for strikers.
- Provide CAP at friendly airbases and FARP's.

F-14A's Waypoints:
1- Zeni FARP (friendly at mission's start)
2- Valley FARP (hostile at mission's start)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** AJS37 Special Op ***

The enemy has 2 ships somewhere south or southwest of Sochi on their way to Sochi's Harbour. We must destroy both ships to prevent them from delivering ammunition to Sochi Airbase.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-10A's, AJS37's, and AH-64's's:

- At each hostile airbase or FARP there is a garrison that needs to be destroyed.
- The garrisons include AAA's and IR SAM's only.
- However, watch out for possible SAM batteries deployed by Mi-8's.
- The enemy's main airbase, Sochi, is surrounded by a number of SA-6 SAM sites.
- Attacking the enemy's main airbase is strictly prohibited.

A-10's and AJS37's waypoints:
1- Zeni FARP (friendly at mission's start)
2- Valley FARP (hostile at mission's start)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UH-1's:

- Your top priority objective is deploying friendly units to capture airbases and FARP's!
- You can also deploy SAM Hawk batteries anywhere you see fit among other assets.
- You can pick up crates at any airbase or FARP we capture.

UH-1's -> Picking up crates:
Bring up your radio menu, select F10 for CTLD and then whatever type of crates you want to pick up.

For picking up a crate, maintain hover over it for 5 seconds, while keeping an altitude of at least 25 feet and a maximum altitude of 50 feet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combined Arms:

The 2 cmdr slots are for players controlling ground units while being on SRS with each other and other players to coordinate their attacks.
You MUST be on SRS as a cmdr operator!
You can use the JTAC slot to drive a ground unit. However, that requires you being on comms with cmdr operators to avoid confusion and/or causing problems to their attacks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequencies:

EWR / GCI (Callsign: Axeman): 251 MHz
AN/ARC Channel 1 for F-5's and F-86's
TRAP Channel 1 for F1's
Special 1 for AJS37's
AN/ARC-182 Channel 1 for F-14's
V/TVU Channel 1 for C-101's
ARC-164 Channel 1 for AH-64's

ATC: 256 MHz
AN/ARC Channel 4 for F-5's and F-86's
TRAP Channel 2 for F1's
Special 2 for AJS37's
AN/ARC-182 Channel 4 for F-14's
V/TVU Channel 2 for C-101's

FARP Zeni: 252.5 MHz
FARP Valley: 256.5 MHz

Including the FARPs as objectives is a brilliant idea, and I can easily imagine some interesting group dynamics and heated discussions happening between the fixed-wing and helo guys on each team because of it.

Including the FARPs as objectives is a brilliant idea, and I can easily imagine some interesting group dynamics and heated discussions happening between the fixed-wing and helo guys on each team because of it.

I fully agree with you, cooperation between the wings is becoming a major factor.

I've now played 5 or 6 good long sessions of Five Points Unleashed, all as Red, and it's a really great scenario. A couple months ago, I would have said that I'd prefer the shorter missions over the 8-10 hour ones, but I've discovered that the long missions are nice in that you can pop in for an hour or two and do some sorties with no pressure, just doing a few things to set your team up for success later like taking airfields or dropping enemy strikers.

That said, to me it feels like it's too hard for both sides to re-take an airfield after the enemy first grabs it. Most missions start off with Blue taking Krymsk and Nov., Red taking Kras-P, Kras-C and Gelen., and then nothing much changes after that. The forces that spawn after taking the bases are just a bit too strong, I think, specifically the two Chaparral/Strela units.

By the way, the Abu Dhabi mission has similar victory conditions but I have had sessions where there's a back and forth with Blue and Red both taking the same airfield in turn. Abu Dhabi is otherwise very different from 5PU (aircraft mix, distance from airfields, how close the objectives are to each other, etc.) so I think that going all the way down to just 2 AAA units spawning like in Abu Dhabi is not the right answer. But maybe having just one IR SAM unit instead of two, or replacing the Chaparral/Strela units with MANPADS, will give a bit more fluidity to the battlefield.

I've now played 5 or 6 good long sessions of Five Points Unleashed, all as Red, and it's a really great scenario. A couple months ago, I would have said that I'd prefer the shorter missions over the 8-10 hour ones, but I've discovered that the long missions are nice in that you can pop in for an hour or two and do some sorties with no pressure, just doing a few things to set your team up for success later like taking airfields or dropping enemy strikers.

 

That said, to me it feels like it's too hard for both sides to re-take an airfield after the enemy first grabs it. Most missions start off with Blue taking Krymsk and Nov., Red taking Kras-P, Kras-C and Gelen., and then nothing much changes after that. The forces that spawn after taking the bases are just a bit too strong, I think, specifically the two Chaparral/Strela units.

 

By the way, the Abu Dhabi mission has similar victory conditions but I have had sessions where there's a back and forth with Blue and Red both taking the same airfield in turn. Abu Dhabi is otherwise very different from 5PU (aircraft mix, distance from airfields, how close the objectives are to each other, etc.) so I think that going all the way down to just 2 AAA units spawning like in Abu Dhabi is not the right answer. But maybe having just one IR SAM unit instead of two, or replacing the Chaparral/Strela units with MANPADS, will give a bit more fluidity to the battlefield.

Or maybe have Mi-8's/UH-1's deploy an artillery unit or an APC. Then drive that unit towards the enemy's base and blast the hell out of it with aerial support as well.

In Once upon a Time in Abu Dhabi, you said it yourself, the garrisons are easier to deal with. But that's simply due to the fact that the airbases are too close from one another so dynamic battles are inevitable. Having stronger garrisons would make it even harder at bullseye.

What about Battle Over Sukhumi Unleashed? Any issues there?

Combined Arms Tournament 3:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=269040

Or maybe have Mi-8's/UH-1's deploy an artillery unit or an APC. Then drive that unit towards the enemy's base and blast the hell out of it with aerial support as well.

Ah, good point. I haven't tried taking out the SAM units with ground units yet, that's probably the way to do it. In fact, now you got me wondering if we can use JTACs (well, Forward Air Controllers during the Cold War) in the vehicles to mark enemy units with smoke for air attacks. :smartass: I'd better check the CTLD notes...

What about Battle Over Sukhumi Unleashed? Any issues there?

Only played that once for a few minutes at the tail end of its debut session.

JTAC's are enabled.

Server News:

All weapons are now available in all missions. (Nuke bombs remain disabled)

Awesome, thanks :D Should be a little fairer on the blues now while giving us MiG jockeys our signature weapon back!

Had an absolute blast on Sail Ahoy! earlier after a bad false start on Catch Me If You Can (which is usually one of the missions I enjoy most, go figure, I'll blame my lack of skill with the MiG-19). There was some very... creative strategy from one of the blue players, so I actually taught myself to use the Grom after a year and a half of flying the 21, and got a gun kill on a BMP :D