Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

Are there any comprehensive guides on dumb bombing?

Most YT clips and tutorials state the difference between CCIP, CCIP CR, and CCRP, but that's about it. I'm looking for pro tips on all kinds of bombing profiles; what to use when and why. Fuse settings, fuse types, ejection speeds, FIX HI, FIX LO, PLT OPT, delivering angles and altitudes, practical implications, etc., those are the things I'd like to learn about. I've read the battle book and TOF tables by the 476th but that's more like a quick reference when you already know exactly what you're doing. Also the manual and the training mission aren't in-depth really.

Quick question for now: by default you can slave the CCRP pipper to your SPI. Is it possible to slave your CCIP CR pipper to your SPI as well instead of manually designating by pulling the pipper overy your SPI on the HUD?

Just mind you don't use them on a weapons training server and team kill other players. I'm sure there will be a guide knocking about somewhere.

What do you mean? What does my question have to do with bombing teamplayers? I don't think that's even possible unless someone's playing a ground unit via CA right?

What do you mean? What does my question have to do with bombing teamplayers? I don't think that's even possible unless someone's playing a ground unit via CA right?

Sorry, Just messing about. It's just a guy with the same name as you shot me down on a weapons training server last week in an A10C. I was also in an A10C .

Oh, well I'm happy when I get a dumb bomb on a stationary target, let alone on a flying aircraft.. And my in-sim nick is not JayPee ;)

Anyway, back on topic.

What do you want to know? Bearing in mind a comprehensive weapon delivery & tactics manual would be longer than the sim manual, so anything given on these forums will be non-exhaustive rule of thumb in nature ).

Quick question for now: by default you can slave the CCRP pipper to your SPI. Is it possible to slave your CCIP CR pipper to your SPI as well instead of manually designating by pulling the pipper overy your SPI on the HUD?

In CCRP mode the IFFCC computes the release point for the weapon so that it hits the designated target and gives you steering cues on the HUD so the aircraft will get to that point eventually. Then the IFFCC releases the weapon. The designated target is the current SPI.

In CCIP the IFFCC computes the impact point of your selected weapon and displays that on the HUD. Then the pilot has to decide wether or not that point is the actual target - and decides when or if at all to release the weapon. An SPI is not required and not used in this case.

A some sort of mixed mode of CCRP and CCIP is "CCIP with consent to release"-mode. In this case you designate your target similar to what you do in CCIP, but instead of immediately releasing the weapon, the IFFCC takes that point for calculating the true release point and then acts as if it were in CCRP mode.

A bit hard to describe with words (for me at least) - find some YT vids and it will become very clear what this is and when it is useful.

edit:

re-read your question ... should have done that earlier ... :o)

Your real question was, if CCIP CR can use a SPI. No, it is all in all still CCIP and works like that. CCIP does not use the SPI. Think about this the other way around: CCIP (with or without CR) with a SPI - what were the difference to CCRP?

I get that, obviously. But my issue here is the DCS manual's tendency to only explain what an abbreviation stands for and where I can find the button in the pit. That still leaves out the user's guide aspect of how to use a system.

To name a few things:

- What is the practical relevance/effect of tail, nose, and t/n settings?

- 82AIRs use tail for chute deployment and nose for slick according to the manual, but what is the difference between FIXED HI, FIXED LO, and PLT OPT?

- MIN ALT, I get that this is the minimum altitude, but how do I know which situation asks for which altitude?

- RACK DEL and EJECT VEL, no clue why I would change them?

- AJD right and up, is that somehow related to predicted wind speeds?

- TOF, why would I change this?

- Bombing profiles (altitude, angles, speeds), how to judge when to use which profile?

No point in making this a mile long list, it's just that these are the sort of questions I have. All in all I'm looking for some sort of a deployment guide. I mean, those who do know what I am talking about here must have gotten their knowledge someplace, somehow. Funny to see people always putting so much emphasis on JDAM and LGB tutorials, but those were the first weapons I mastered and I hardly miss a target ever since. Maybe I'm a bit overreacting but it's kinda frustrating not knowing how to become as proficient as those showing perfectly performed attacks on YT.

In CCRP mode the IFFCC computes the release point for the weapon so that it hits the designated target and gives you steering cues on the HUD so the aircraft will get to that point eventually. Then the IFFCC releases the weapon. The designated target is the current SPI.

 

In CCIP the IFFCC computes the impact point of your selected weapon and displays that on the HUD. Then the pilot has to decide wether or not that point is the actual target - and decides when or if at all to release the weapon. An SPI is not required and not used in this case.

 

A some sort of mixed mode of CCRP and CCIP is "CCIP with consent to release"-mode. In this case you designate your target similar to what you do in CCIP, but instead of immediately releasing the weapon, the IFFCC takes that point for calculating the true release point and then acts as if it were in CCRP mode.

A bit hard to describe with words (for me at least) - find some YT vids and it will become very clear what this is and when it is useful.

Flagrum, that bit I do know yet you still wrote a perfect confirmation. A SPI might not be needed for CCIP CR but I'm asking if it is possible to have the CCIP CR pipper auto designate the current SPI? So your chances of inaccurately designating the impact point via the HUD are reduced.

That's the most comprehensive I've found so far:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1724366&postcount=103

It's a heck of a post and has more info than most threads here...

Edit:

I still have the Ground Weapon Employment Manuals from the 25th VFS, but since I can't find an official link to them anymore, I don't think I'm supposed to upload them here.

Maybe @Eddie knows more about that and if it would be ok to distribute them. If they were pulled, there's a reason for that and I respect that. If no, I can give you a link later.

Flagrum, that bit I do know yet you still wrote a perfect confirmation. A SPI might not be needed for CCIP CR but I'm asking if it is possible to have the CCIP CR pipper auto designate the current SPI? So your chances of inaccurately designating the impact point via the HUD are reduced.

Did you see my edit to my posting I ninja'd in while you were answering? :o)

What would be the difference between CCIP (any submode) and CCRP then?

Flagrum, we've both ninja'd our ways around here, but you've given me a final answer, thanks!

Supersheep, although I have the battle book PDF, I've never come up with that thread while searching for info. Prolly lack of proper terms used. Apologies if one or more things are answered in there. Starting to read now. Should you be allowed to share that documentation, I'd be happy to receive a link!

No problem. That thread is also one of the more awkward ones here on EDs and I intentionally linked that post only. It's quite well-hidden in there.

(Ohh, I just see my signature. I didn't intend to hint at that at all, although the context might imply otherwise)

That's the most comprehensive I've found so far:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1724366&postcount=103

 

It's a heck of a post and has more info than most threads here...

 

 

Edit:

I still have the Ground Weapon Employment Manuals from the 25th VFS, but since I can't find an official link to them anymore, I don't think I'm supposed to upload them here.

Maybe @Eddie knows more about that and if it would be ok to distribute them. If they were pulled, there's a reason for that and I respect that. If no, I can give you a link later.

Please do not upload that document, it was what I developed years ago and no longer am a part of the 25th. The 25th actually shut down 6 months after many of us left to form the 476th.

Wilco.

Flagrum, that bit I do know yet you still wrote a perfect confirmation. A SPI might not be needed for CCIP CR but I'm asking if it is possible to have the CCIP CR pipper auto designate the current SPI? So your chances of inaccurately designating the impact point via the HUD are reduced.

JayPee, CCRP is auto-designation of the SPI as the bombing target. Once you identify your target and make it your SPI, you've designated that as your desired impact point. Just switch to CCRP and follow the steering cues. There is no need to dive on the target and use CCIP CR to re-designate your desired impact point.

No problem. That thread is also one of the more awkward ones here on EDs and I intentionally linked that post only. It's quite well-hidden in there.

 

(Ohh, I just see my signature. I didn't intend to hint at that at all, although the context might imply otherwise)

Yeah, I read that entire thread. The "flame war," while relatively mild, was painful to read, although this community is so much more mature and considerate than a typical internet forum. That said, we ought to be gentler to inexperienced people genuinely trying to learn, even when they don't get it on the first few tries. And we ought to be more gracious when those more experienced members are trying to help. :thumbup:

EDIT:

I forgot I wanted to add that there's a bug with CCRP right now. It miscalculates the release point and dumb bombs hit long of the target. Maverick Raptor explains this in detail and demonstrates the bug extensively in this YouTube video:

That's another weird thread where multiple reputable people offered definite advice there, yet it keeps continuing. I stopped reading it because honestly, I lost track of what's going on...

- What is the practical relevance/effect of tail, nose, and t/n settings?

At present in DCS, there is no relevance with any weapon other than MK-82AIRs.

For the MK-82AIR, selecting nose only will not deploy the ballute.

- 82AIRs use tail for chute deployment and nose for slick according to the manual, but what is the difference between FIXED HI, FIXED LO, and PLT OPT?

They are various configurations for the MK-82AIRs. Fixed Hi/Lo configure the IFFCC ballistic calculations & DSMS profiling for high drag and low drag employment respectively.

Pilot option (and pilot option 1 & 2) allow the pilot to select whether the weapon is dropped in high or low drag configuration in flight by selecting a relevantly configured profile.

IRL a weapon with different fusing options is treated as an entirely different weapon by the DSMS. So a MK-82AIR set to FIXED HI, and a MK-82AIR set to FIXED LO would have their own entirely seperate profiles. This isn't implemented quite right in DCS.

- MIN ALT, I get that this is the minimum altitude, but how do I know which situation asks for which altitude?

In combat you don't use it at all. It's only used in training and is set for mandatory minimum altitudes relevant to the type of delivery being performed. In combat it's left at zero as the only abort cues you really need are for terrain/frag avoidance.

- RACK DEL and EJECT VEL, no clue why I would change them?

No function in DCS. They are calibration settings IRL and are not altered by the pilot anyway.

- AJD right and up, is that somehow related to predicted wind speeds?

As above.

- TOF, why would I change this?

TOF controls the desired release cue on the CCIP projected bomb impact line (PBIL). When performing a CCIP delivery you place the DRC on the target and allow the pipper to track up to it. As TOF is related to altitude (as well as airspeed and angle) releasing at the correct TOF also gives the correct release altitude, or more importantly means you won't be releasing below planned altitude.

- Bombing profiles (altitude, angles, speeds), how to judge when to use which profile?

This is a difficult one to answer, simply because it's not a simple subject and would take up most of a "very" long weapons and tactics manual due to the numerous variations and considerations.

To get you started though, lower release altitudes/higher dive angles are more accurate, the higher release airspeed associated with high dive angles also make you a more difficult target. However dive bomb/high altitude dive bomb (30 degrees dive and above) deliveries do take more practice to master.

Low angle (LALD & LAHD) deliveries (20 degrees or less) are used for low altitude/pop-up deliveries. While they are easier to perform they are also less accurate than dive bomb and leave you spending more time at lower altitudes flying at lower airspeed out of terrain masking, which can leave you vulnerable to hostile fire and less able to evade anything that does come your way. Although as long as you do consider the threat they can be very effective and are the only practical way to deliver weapons when operating at very low altitude.

Medium & Low altitude toss deliveries (MAT & LAT) are your CCRP releases. While they do very much have a place and a tactical use, they are inherently less accurate and are best employed for large/area targets with large bomb strings and/or when dropping CBUs. For LAT.MAT you're generally going to be dropping everything you have in one go. It's also important to note that MAT/LAT can be and often are performed with a shallow dive angle, although they can be done level if required/desired.

Lastly there is the Visual Level Delivery (VLD). The VLD is the in the weeds, fly level and fast right over the target and drop a string of MK-82AIRs on their heads delivery. I wouldn't recommend such a delivery in the A-10C in DCS. The AI can't really be "surprised" so even a low level terrain masked approach is likely to lead in death against anything that can shoot back.

If I may jump in and ask:

Which would be the first in training? I assume the low angle deliveries (because easier), but less accuracy makes training towards consistent results harder?

Thanks!

Supersheep

To get you started though, lower release altitudes/higher dive angles are more accurate, the higher release airspeed associated with high dive angles also make you a more difficult target. However dive bomb/high altitude dive bomb (30 degrees dive and above) deliveries do take more practice to master.

 

Low angle (LALD & LAHD) deliveries (20 degrees or less) are used for low altitude/pop-up deliveries. While they are easier to perform they are also less accurate than dive bomb

"Less accurate" is a relative term. If you do it right, you'll still get weapon on targets. But the ballistic path of the bombs is inherently less accurate and more vulnerable to wind etc as dive angles decrease.

Generally I focus on high angle deliveries when teaching it to people as they are what people find most difficult and alien. The biggest hurdle is getting away from the "long dive at the target" most simmers tend to be used to.

I suppose the thing to remember is you won't get anywhere in combat by dropping a single bomb, you're either going to be dropping two (steep/low) or even up to six (high/shallow) in a string to hit even a single vehicle.

Eddie, thanks for the explanations. This, combined with the flame topic, and some more Googling got me some pointers. Gotta be honest, I never heard of rolling-in for instance. I just pushed neg-G till my eyes popped out to focus on target. This is why I'm desperately looking to be taught properly somehow.

Supersheep, interesting question.

Eddie, thanks for the explanations. This, combined with the flame topic, and some more Googling got me some pointers. Gotta be honest, I never heard of rolling-in for instance. I just pushed neg-G till my eyes popped out to focus on target. This is why I'm desperately looking to be taught properly somehow.

 

Supersheep, interesting question.

Take a look at the YouTube link in my sig, you'll find quite a few demo videos there to give some thing to think about, they'll at the very least get you asking some more questions.

I just pushed neg-G till my eyes popped out to focus on target.

It's something most (all) simmer who haven't gotten heavily into real world TTPs do. And it's one of those things where I've never really understood why the concept of always using positive G to move the aeroplane comes so hard to some.

Yeah that's the entire point! The more I dig for intel, the more questions arise.

using positive G to move the aeroplane comes so hard to some.