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Learning on the SU-25T noob questions


Eiskatze

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Hi I'm working my way through the su-25t tutorials and I'm starting to hit some beginner difficulties. I thought I would just make a new thread where I could ask multiple questions as they come up. I last flew a flightsim back in the 90s and have been training on DCS for a few weeks now. I have a TM T16k stick and hotas which I like a lot. I've picked up a few modules with the sale (FC3, MIG21), but since I'm struggling with the SU-25T I thought I should just focus on it for awhile until I have improved my basic flight skills.

 

First in the easy landing tutorial, I keep popping my front tire. I'm getting quite good at small adjustments, staying on glide slope, matching decent speed and what feels like setting it down very gently. I don't bounce, I'm going straight, pop the chute, apply brakes, come to stop and it feels good. But then I go to taxi to the hanger or get an outside view and many times my front tire is popped. What am I doing wrong? Is it the keyboard W brake? or maybe I'm dropping my nose too hard after getting the rear wheels down?

 

I'm also having trouble with the CCIP unguided bomb tutorial. I always seem to overshoot the target if I keep to ~50deg down slope, but if I dive more steep, I can sometimes hit the target but usually followed by crashing into the ground. Any advise?

 

I'll probably have more questions as I go. Thanks for any advise.

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Well it seems like you are flaring?? If you are try not to flare too much.. if you follow the glidescope down that should be good enough just make sure you are not too fast..

 

 

This is a tough plane to learn on.. even for an experienced pilot it is a bit tricky at first..

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Hi I'm working my way through the su-25t tutorials and I'm starting to hit some beginner difficulties. I thought I would just make a new thread where I could ask multiple questions as they come up. I last flew a flightsim back in the 90s and have been training on DCS for a few weeks now. I have a TM T16k stick and hotas which I like a lot. I've picked up a few modules with the sale (FC3, MIG21), but since I'm struggling with the SU-25T I thought I should just focus on it for awhile until I have improved my basic flight skills.

 

First in the easy landing tutorial, I keep popping my front tire. I'm getting quite good at small adjustments, staying on glide slope, matching decent speed and what feels like setting it down very gently. I don't bounce, I'm going straight, pop the chute, apply brakes, come to stop and it feels good. But then I go to taxi to the hanger or get an outside view and many times my front tire is popped. What am I doing wrong? Is it the keyboard W brake? or maybe I'm dropping my nose too hard after getting the rear wheels down?

 

I'm also having trouble with the CCIP unguided bomb tutorial. I always seem to overshoot the target if I keep to ~50deg down slope, but if I dive more steep, I can sometimes hit the target but usually followed by crashing into the ground. Any advise?

 

I'll probably have more questions as I go. Thanks for any advise.

 

Just wondered if you are following these tutorials.

 

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Thanks guys. Nephilim. Yeah I may be doing too much flare. I will try to do less flaring and try to hold the nose up until my speed drops. Good to know that the SU25T is a difficult plane to learn on, I won't let it discourage me.

 

mondaysoff, I heard about those videos but have not watched them yet. I thought maybe they were for people who already knew how to fly other planes in DCS. I will go through them.

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You might also be using the brakes too hard or too quickly -I know that you can pop tyres by doing this alone irrespective of how heavily you land. Don't use the brakes until you are under 150kmh -and less is better.

 

Good thing about learning on the 25T is that you will learn to make smooth landings, which will put you in good stead for other aircraft.

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mondaysoff, I heard about those videos but have not watched them yet. I thought maybe they were for people who already knew how to fly other planes in DCS. I will go through them.

 

Far from it, good for new or experienced pilots if you need to re-learn. It also gave me some ideas of what buttons and switches to bind to my HOTAS.

 

This guy is knowledgeable in the field of flight, sim and real life having got his PPL recently. He has just returned to DCS and YouTube after a break for RL stuff, and is making excellent tutorials, the latest being the Mission Editor and the promise of the P-51 Mustang next up, I recommend to follow him.

 

I’m certainly no expert and don’t consider myself a tutor, but I sometimes use the drag chute to slow down quicker before using the brakes.

 

Good luck with your training, and welcome to the forum.

Modules NOT currently in my hanger

 

Yak 52/F-14 Tomcat/CE II/Mig-19/I-16/FW-A-8/JF-17/Supercarrier

 

 

 

My system:

 

 

MSI Z97 Gaming 5 mobo

3.5 GHz Intel Core i5 4690k

H100i CPU Cooler

16 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 Hyper X Fury Red

MSI GTX980ti GPU

EVGA 850W PSU

Samsung EVO 850 500GB SSD

128gb Plextor M.2 storage (Boot Drive)

Windows 10 X64 Professional

Acer XB281HK G-sync monitor

Trackir 5

MFG Crosswind pedals

T M Warthog Hotas

 

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It seems you are applying too much the brakes before slowing down. If you do a proper approach you should have enough strip to just aerobrake to 200 km/h and then use parachute.

 

Wheel brakes should only be used below 100 km/h or emergencies.

 

The only time I popped my front tire was in a bad approach where I landed almost on the left border of the strip, applied brakes and tried to turn the nosewheel. It didn't work and I just broke the tyre and bended the nose wheel strut.

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Hi I'm working my way through the su-25t tutorials and I'm starting to hit some beginner difficulties. I thought I would just make a new thread where I could ask multiple questions as they come up. I last flew a flightsim back in the 90s and have been training on DCS for a few weeks now. I have a TM T16k stick and hotas which I like a lot. I've picked up a few modules with the sale (FC3, MIG21), but since I'm struggling with the SU-25T I thought I should just focus on it for awhile until I have improved my basic flight skills.

 

First in the easy landing tutorial, I keep popping my front tire. I'm getting quite good at small adjustments, staying on glide slope, matching decent speed and what feels like setting it down very gently. I don't bounce, I'm going straight, pop the chute, apply brakes, come to stop and it feels good. But then I go to taxi to the hanger or get an outside view and many times my front tire is popped. What am I doing wrong? Is it the keyboard W brake? or maybe I'm dropping my nose too hard after getting the rear wheels down?

 

I'm also having trouble with the CCIP unguided bomb tutorial. I always seem to overshoot the target if I keep to ~50deg down slope, but if I dive more steep, I can sometimes hit the target but usually followed by crashing into the ground. Any advise?

 

I'll probably have more questions as I go. Thanks for any advise.

 

I have never poped a tired so can't really help you in this, however with the CCIP bombing - try to apply air brakes when diving. If you gain too much speed in the dive, the SU25 becomes nearly uncontrolable.

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I might be wrong on this, but I think the Su-25T isn't the easiest plane to start, even tho it's the one FC3-like available for free. But since you already have FC3, I think the A-10A is easier to start with. Similar plane and mission but easier to fly in general.

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When you touch down, you ideally want to be descending only 1-2m a second with a AoA of about 10 degrees, maybe a hair less. 5m/sec is MAX, not the ideal speed, especially if you're loaded at all. I usually land around 230kmh with full flaps.

 

Blown tires are usually from bouncing the nose down too hard on landing, or landing at too high of a speed. As others mentioned, excessive braking can cause problems, too. First, don't use your brakes unless the runway is short or you are landing too far into it, let the drag chutes do their job. Second, if you DO use brakes, let some speed bleed off a bit for a few seconds before applying them, and then only do so a few seconds at a time so they don't overheat. Don't hold the brakes until you've dropped down 100kmh or less. You're in a plane that weighs tens of thousands of pounds, think more like a tractor trailer, less like a sports car. Surge the brakes, don't hold them.

 

A good way to practice your landings is the following:

 

Perform touch and goes without allowing your nose to touch or even droop. Come in, touch your rear wheels gently on the tarmac, maintain your AoA, return to full throttle and gently lift back off again.

 

When you can do this consistently, you can begin to consider yourself a truly competent pilot. Too many people focus on the shooty bits and suck at the basics.

 

 

As for CCIP, the main thing is stability. You don't want to be wiggling your wings or shaking. So control your speed, and your aircraft. Begin planning your attack BEFORE you roll in, approach from above, dive 30-40 degrees, keeping your speed below the point the plane begins shaking. The more stuff under your wings, the lower this "critical" speed will be, but generally keep it under 700kmh to avoid the shudders while loaded, throttle down and deploy brakes if necessary. You should drop your bombs from at least a few thousand feet up. There's no need whatsoever to "ride them in".

 

Dumb bombs aren't going to be super accurate, even if you are performing the run perfectly, so I usually drop them in pairs that way the affected area is a bit larger.

 

If you're lawndarting, you're not controlling your speed and you're trying to ride the bombs in to "make sure" you hit. This is counter productive and hurting your accuracy. If you're dropping short from up high, it just means you need to get a bit closer to your target before beginning the dive.


Edited by zhukov032186

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About the popping nose wheel. Do not hold the wheel brake for long at a time. Brake in shorter bursts, max 4 seconds at a time, let it rest for 2 seconds repeat.

 

Also, make sure you are not pulling the drag chute before the nose wheel has settled fully on the ground or the nose wheel will impact pretty hard when the chute opens.

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Thanks everyone. I'm getting a little better, but still practicing. I think I'll make a custom campaign so that I don't have to listen to the talking every time. I also feel that this is a great simulator so I should learn basic flight on it.

I will definitely start trying the touch and go practice.

 

I may have discovered part of the tire popping though. I have my rudder assigned to my T16k hotas paddle and it's a little sensitive. Very easy to over apply. I think I simetimes over apply when I'm drifting to the side after touch down which might put the tire side ways and pop it.

 

Ithink I'm getting closer to nailing this.

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In the axis assign menu, click "axis tune" at the bottom of the page while you have your rudder input selected and set a nice big curve on the rudder axis. At least 20-40ish. Although i could see using higher with the limited range of twist sticks. It will make the center of the axis much less touchy, although as you get closer to full deflection it will be a little more touchy. You rarely need full deflection on the rudder surface for any virtual plane however.

 

I even have to do this with full range pedals because they're otherwise way too touchy. .. the necessity of doing so for a twist stick is likely much more apparent.

 

And if for some reason it's not the ruddur turning the nosehweel causing the tire popping, I'd be with the other posters that it's the brakes. Basically a button simulating what is actually an axis IRL. Tap tap tap. Never hold.


Edited by Headwarp
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I think I got my landings with the SU-25T now. Been able to do touch and go, come back around and then land without any drama or popped tires. The Robert Sogomonian videos are excellent and I've learned a lot. I still need to finish the series, but I definitely will.

zhukov032186 suggestion about practicing touch-and-goes was excellent too. And Headwarp thanks for the suggestion on doing "axis tune" on my rudder/wheel control. I've set it to 25 and it's working much better.

 

I think in the end it was a mixture of things from my rudder/wheel control to needing to pulsing my brake button (since I don't have a brake axis lever), and general lack of finesse with my landings.

 

I'm going to keep practicing and working through both the built in and Sogomonian tutorials. I want to eventually be able to work up to doing carrier landings with the SU-33 and doing touch and goes from a carrier :)

thanks everyone


Edited by jsevr
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Since you have FC3, you might find it easier to learn how to fly using the F-15 as it's a far more friendly plane handling wise :-)

 

Of course I think the best thing to do is just fly the plane you like the best, you'll get a feel for it all faster than you think.

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As others have said, learning to fly through the Su-25T is a tough way to start. I found the Su-27 easier (although you need to be careful not to increase your dive angle when bombing or you wind up bombing yourself), it allowed me to apply what I had learned of cockpit and HUD symbology, and it has interactive training very similar to the Su-25T. Knowledge you gain flying the Su-27 should be easy to apply to the Su-33.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Mentioning Robert S's tutorials, and in support of zhukov032186's sage advice, make sure you learn to coordinate your turns with the rudder and slip indicator as in Robert's 2nd or 3rd vid - and practice, practice, practice. Muscle memory in fundamental skills is your friend on all vectors.

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