TID is not horizon stablized

Dear HB developers,

I know it sounds weird. But I always has the feeling that F14 TID in AC stab mode has some weird behavior when rolling with an STT target.

Now I'm testing JF-17 and there is one bug report thread in JF-17 sub forum very accurately described what could be the case that happened on F14 TID:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=256827

In short the TID should be horizon stabilized as it provides top down picture. But when you STT a target, in that mode, it is not horizon stabilized so that the bank angle of your aircraft will affect the image of the target on horizontal plane.

You've stated it yourself, ...that F14 TID in AC stab mode has some weird behavior...

It's Aircraft stabilised and therefore expected to turn with the aircraft. If you want a top-down view of the tactical area, switch to ground stabilized.

You've stated it yourself, ...that F14 TID in AC stab mode has some weird behavior...

 

It's Aircraft stabilised and therefore expected to turn with the aircraft. If you want a top-down view of the tactical area, switch to ground stabilized.

That's not what AC stab and ground stab means though. It's just the point that the TID is locked to. So A/C stab = your aircraft doesn't move on the TID. Ground stab = your aircraft moves on the TID.

In short the TID should be horizon stabilized as it provides top down picture. But when you STT a target, in that mode, it is not horizon stabilized so that the bank angle of your aircraft will affect the image of the target on horizontal plane.

Could not reproduce. In STT it's only you and the target. You see the radar LOS and when you bank you only change your aspect and when turning antenna moves too to keep a lock within gimbal limits.

Could not reproduce. In STT it's only you and the target. You see the radar LOS and when you bank you only change your aspect and when turning antenna moves too to keep a lock within gimbal limits.

When you have a lock on a target at 12 OC, and you are banking 90 degree to the left. Turn about 30 degrees to the left. Do you see the line to the target move 30 degrees to the right on TID?

If you see that on 90 degree left bank. Then it is horizon stabbed. If you only see the 30 degree angle after you roll back to 0 degree bank. Then it is bugged.

That's not what AC stab and ground stab means though. It's just the point that the TID is locked to. So A/C stab = your aircraft doesn't move on the TID. Ground stab = your aircraft moves on the TID.

You are correct sir!

You've stated it yourself, ...that F14 TID in AC stab mode has some weird behavior...

 

It's Aircraft stabilised and therefore expected to turn with the aircraft. If you want a top-down view of the tactical area, switch to ground stabilized.

Horizon stab does not equal ground stab...

@HB developers,

Does this make some sense to you?

"Radar/datalink contacts polar is computed agaist plane matrix,

should be sensor matrix."

I wonder when in STT, the TID of F14 should also be horizontal stabilised so that if you bank left or right the TID still reflecting the horizontal situation. Is that correct?

When you have a lock on a target at 12 OC, and you are banking 90 degree to the left. Turn about 30 degrees to the left. Do you see the line to the target move 30 degrees to the right on TID?

 

If you see that on 90 degree left bank. Then it is horizon stabbed. If you only see the 30 degree angle after you roll back to 0 degree bank. Then it is bugged.

What you describe is expected behavior and correct and still means that the sensor (radar) is horizon stabilised when you bank.

Try this: lock a target that is at your 12 and above you. Now bank 90 degrees but do not turn (keep the heading). On the TID the LOS should stay straight ahead. If it was aircraft stabilised the radar LOS should move quickly to one side.

Or another one: when STT target at 12 and same alt keep rolling keeping him on the nose - you should see that LOS barely moves.

Keep in mind that banking usualy results in a turn so the target is moving away from your 12, and the TID reflects that.

Also you won't see any difference whether the target is above or below in TID/STT. You'll see only the bearing changes.

What mattag08 described are search modes that are both horizon stabilised too. So if you have 2 targets flying one above the other (they overlap on TID) you cannot separate them by banking to 90 degrees to show them next to each other :)

I knew there's something wrong!

in P-STT mode, TID is not horizontal stab.

Please take a look at the screen shot:

https://ibb.co/pwRv4Q4

It is clearly showing that in P-STT, on the VDI, the target is off to my left side, but I'm banking right. The line on the TID is not horizontal stab, as it is pointing not at the target due to my bank angel. The target is at correct location though. But the line is super misleading, many times causing me to go over gimbal limit during cranking.

Sorry if this screen shot will cause nausea to some people. I feel it too at this bank angel. But it is quite common when one tries to crank and then descend.

(Please check the screen shot in my previous post in the previous page if you only see this)

It makes thinking that this might be something deeper. It might be the reason behind my previous bug report:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=249216

I’ve been busy recently. It will be great if some one can also test this. I will test it again when I have time.

Since the TID has no indication of the radar gimbal limts, you should reference your heading before the crank and just turn 55-60 degrees of heading change as opposed to trying to use the TID for cranks. Make sure to begin rolling out at about 45 degrees because you will continue to turn until the wings are completely level. I just tested it again and had no issues. You can reference the MB (Magnetic Bearing) which is the bandit's bearing relative to your nose as well and keep it between 300-60.

I might be misunderstanding you but your images shows nothing wrong. Both the VDI and the TID indicate the target to be to the right of your current azimuth. That does not change with bank angle.

I might be misunderstanding you but your images shows nothing wrong. Both the VDI and the TID indicate the target to be to the right of your current azimuth. That does not change with bank angle.

Dear Naquaii, thank you so much for reply to my post. In the screen shot, on the TID you can see a line, indicating the radar pointing direction. In pd stt mode. It always link from F14(self) to the target. However in P-STT. The line point to some strange place depending on your bank angle a lot.

Since the TID has no indication of the radar gimbal limts, you should reference your heading before the crank and just turn 55-60 degrees of heading change as opposed to trying to use the TID for cranks. Make sure to begin rolling out at about 45 degrees because you will continue to turn until the wings are completely level. I just tested it again and had no issues. You can reference the MB (Magnetic Bearing) which is the bandit's bearing relative to your nose as well and keep it between 300-60.

Thank you for your reply. I’m quite experienced with F14 and fox1 blueflag PVP server. So I’m pretty confident that 1) I know gimbals and how to crank efficiently 2) I know that I’m reporting a real bug.

Ok, I think I might see what you mean, is the highlighted target the supposedely locked target? If so the line should still be pointing at it and that would be a bug. I'll see if we can reproduce.

Hi, Naquaii, I've just tested again, in PD-STT it is the same, the line direction is depends on your bank angle. It is more likely the line is in a wrong coordinate reference..

Confirmed, there seems to be a bug regarding the target range tape in STT, the error increasing with roll angle and azimuth deflection from ADL.

Will add a tracker and tell our radar guy.

Confirmed, there seems to be a bug regarding the target range tape in STT, the error increasing with roll angle and azimuth deflection from ADL.

 

Will add a tracker and tell our radar guy.

Dear Naquaii,

With some careful testing, I confirmed that this little bug is linked to my previous report that switch between PD-STT and P-STT will cause lose of lock.

Whenever the line is not pointing to the target due to bank angle, if player or jester switch between PD-STT and P-STT at that moment, the lock will break immediately.

I guess it will also solve a long standing question why Jestor is so bad at maintaining STT lock. (Because he will switch to P-STT when the target is within 10NM, most of the time F14 is cranking at that moment, causing the line pointing away from the target, thus breaks lock)

Please look into it a little bit more. Just try switching between PD-STT/ P-STT. (with a little hack, i.e. with some key bind modding, You will be able to test it easily in the pilot seat in that case)

I love your F14 module so much that I wish it to be perfect. Please take a look into this issue as well, and I wish you all the best in the development!

With love and all my respect of the developer team.

Rabbisaur

Dear Naquaii,

 

With some careful testing, I confirmed that this little bug is linked to my previous report that switch between PD-STT and P-STT will cause lose of lock.

That connection makes totally sense to me and it would be great if STT mode switching wuld become more reliable because of this bug getting fixed :thumbup:

We'll have a look, I'm not as sure as you guys about the connection but I'm not gonna rule it out.

It depends on how it's coded so it's not as certain to be correlated as it would've been in a real system.

We'll have a look, I'm not as sure as you guys about the connection but I'm not gonna rule it out.

It depends on how it's coded so it's not as certain to be correlated as it would've been in a real system.

:thumbup:

We'll have a look, I'm not as sure as you guys about the connection but I'm not gonna rule it out.

It depends on how it's coded so it's not as certain to be correlated as it would've been in a real system.

Nice, thank you so much!