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Great sim, love it. Everybody 4th gen outguns and ranges me.


DmitriKozlowsky

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Great sim, love it. Money well spent. Sad that it sat on my system for more then a year, and my new rig was well timed with new pit update. So I started re-learning it. Good stuff. Nice to have a solid 4th gen hi-fidelity sim.

Now why does it feel like every 4th gen air-air type, East or West in DCS, outguns and outranges M2KC? Those huge 530D only hit anything that is locked up at 10-12 kms. But when radar is locked they do hit. Most of the time. But Migs, Sukhois, F-teens (except F-5E) always lock me up and fire R-73, AIM-9, before I am able to. MagicII, if it gives a loud solid tone, almost always hits. Flares don't spoof it. Is it really that effective in real world?

Mica family seems to be AIM-120C, AIM-9X , and R-73 in one missile. Just choose your seeker. I don't expect that munition any time soon. Or its German bother IRIS-T, for that matter.

In Wikipedia, M2KC, with additional avionics can carry Exocet. Wouldn't that be a nice Xmas gift.

Cockpit is still too dark, and flashlight does not really fix this issue.

Radar is difficult to use, which tells me it is realistic, so no complaints.

BP-100 runway munition is missing. Pilot has gone AWOL.

Kind of weird that MK-82 slick, can only be delivered using CCRP. Is that how it is in reality?

 

Few nice touches. On AI M2KC, there is a ladder, and pitot ground covers in dayglo orange. Wish that player Mirage would get same detail treatment on engine shutdown.

 

New flare/chaff load 43/112 is great. Love the NVG enabled pit.

 

Synthetic runway ILS for instrument approach ,when available, is an OMG feature! Why is this not standard in tactical aviation?

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Now why does it feel like every 4th gen air-air type, East or West in DCS, outguns and outranges M2KC? Those huge 530D only hit anything that is locked up at 10-12 kms. But when radar is locked they do hit. Most of the time. But Migs, Sukhois, F-teens (except F-5E) always lock me up and fire R-73, AIM-9, before I am able to. MagicII, if it gives a loud solid tone, almost always hits. Flares don't spoof it. Is it really that effective in real world?

The M2000C RDI that we have in DCS is an 80s fighter yet, while the F-16 and F/A-18 are mid 00s jets. They have better avionics (better radar, data link and more) and far better missiles (Fox3!). Even the FC3 aircraft have better weaponary so it's no suprise that the Mirage is outgunned in even conditions. The Mirage plays well at really high altitude though, where its delta wing performs pretty good and the S530 gets a much bigger range, because of the thinner air.

 

Mica family seems to be AIM-120C, AIM-9X , and R-73 in one missile. Just choose your seeker. I don't expect that munition any time soon. Or its German bother IRIS-T, for that matter.

In Wikipedia, M2KC, with additional avionics can carry Exocet. Wouldn't that be a nice Xmas gift.

The MICA is a bit of a compromise and sits in an akward spot between the longer range AMRAAM/R-27 and the shorter range Sidewinders/R-73.

Not sure why you mention the IRIS-T as it is not used on the M2000 (at leats not on the french one we have).

Exocets are only used by some export customers on a slightly modified version of the M2000 than the one we have. There has been much debate here on the forum about its implementation (as well as for ALARM), but it's just not realistic for the M2000 variant we have.

 

Cockpit is still too dark, and flashlight does not really fix this issue.

I totally agree!

 

Radar is difficult to use, which tells me it is realistic, so no complaints.

I haven't had the chance yet to really test the new radar model thouroughly, but it does indeed seem more realistic, because the old model was pretty much perfect. Now you have to put the various radar settings to work in order to get a good picture.

 

BP-100 runway munition is missing.

Haven't heard of a BP-100. In DCS we have the BL-755 Beluga as an anti runway munition.

 

Kind of weird that MK-82 slick, can only be delivered using CCRP. Is that how it is in reality?

Yeah, it is, although the french CCRP procedure for this is to drop them in a slight dive. The MK-82SE is beeing delivered using CCIP though.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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In regards to feeling outgunned, in a sense, you are. The Mirage may be a fairly modern fighter but the specific version we have has very real limitations that will come into play when you use it outside of its real-world context. This is especially the case in scenarios that don't really follow real-world usage cases and take the aircraft out of its intended element.

 

The first thing to keep in mind is that the Mirage 2000C that we have in DCS is very much a 80's aircraft in terms of avionics and weaponry. This may seem pretty modern at first glance but it really isn't. For its time, the Mirage's radar and loadout was fine (especially considering that it would never be acting alone and would have other aircraft types operating around it) but once you get into the 90's, the Mirage 2000C starts becoming outdated rather quickly and that is why France updated it to the much more capable (and multi-role) Mirage 2000-5.

 

If you treat the Mirage like a early F-16 variant, you will have a better time. It is not really going to outgun aircraft carrying AIM-120's or even R-27's and R-77's. The Super-530D is more like a heavy Sparrow missile and needs to be handled as such. Likewise, the radar isn't going to blow your mind with its capabilities. You need to use the plane within its limits or you will always get shot down.

 

One final thought. It is tempting to go on wikipedia or some other website/book and look up the maximum range of a missile but that doesn't really tell you much about its practical range. Generally speaking, a air to air (especially BVR focused) missile will only really give you good results when you are quite high up (think 25,000 to 30,000 feet), quite fast (0.8 or 0.9 mach), and in a situation where the target is either heading straight at you or generally close to it. If you launch the missile from low altitude and low speed, it won't have the energy to do much. If you launch the missile at a target heading away from you, you won't have a lot of range to work with since the missile only has a limited burn time and has to chase a target.

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BL-755 is not Beluga. It is a British cluster bomb like MK-20. Yugoslavia also produced it under license. Which is why it is available for DCS: Mig-21bis.

BLG-66 Beluga is a cluster munition like MK-20 and BL-755.

 

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=368

 

Perhaps RAZBAM modified usage in DCS to be a runway cratering. I have dropped Beluga on soft skinned vehicles in DCS. It does work on trucks and BTRs, maybe BMP, but tanks are unaffected. In DCS it is listed as BLG-66-AC. Perhaps AC is anti runway cratering. However I have yet to see it crater a runway. I tried it, then landed on same runway to see if craters were not being drawn. Landed fine.

 

BP-100 (which was mentioned in DCS: M2KC manual) is a rocket enhanced cratering munition. Like Durandal. Manual did state that BP-100 is not available in Early Access.

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Right, I got confused with the names there. You#re right of course, that the BL-755 is not Beluga and instead is the british cluster bomb, which we have for our MiG-21.

 

I'm still confused to the difference between BLG-66 and BP-100. I never realized they are two different bombs. I thought the BLG-66, which we now have ingame, is the anti-runway munition mentioned in the manual, that was not available in early access release and implemented at a later point. I never realized that this is actually the BP-100 which we still don't have in DCS. :doh:

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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BLG-66 is a cluster munition dispenser. Like MK-20, BL-755, CBU-54 (F-5E), CBU-87. In DCS it is designated as BLG-66-AC. I am not certain what AC is. Perhaps it is a Anti-runway Cratering variant. As far as Internet goes, the submunitions are just normal HE/EFP for use against soft and light armored vehicles.

 

BAP-100 is sort of a cluster. Its like 6 small bombs attached to a dispenser but there is no exterior shell. The bomb detaches, deploys a drag parachute, and at some height, fires a rocket motor which drives munition into runway surface, and weapon detonates heaving slabs of concrete and causing a large crater. Its smaller and lighter then earlier Durandal.

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BLG-66:

 

  • Type AC anti-char, effective contre les véhicules blindés
  • Type EC, grenade à fragmentation contre les véhicules, matériel, et dans un rôle anti-personnel, rayon d'action létal estimé à 60 m.
  • Type IZ d'interdiction de zone, visant à détruire le revêtement des voies, donc contre les pistes d'aviation et les carrefours routiers et pouvant exploser plusieurs heures après leur largage1,2.

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while the F-16 and F/A-18 are mid 00s jets.

 

 

the models represented in DCS world are "upgraded" versions of the orginial jets which dates from the early 80's.

 

 

Comparing these jets together makes no sense...

 

 

Funny fact however when the F16 and F18 came out, the Mirage was superior, due to the Matra 530 performing better than the Sparrow and the F16 could only carry Sidewinders

         Planes:                                      Choppers:                                       Maps:

  • Flaming Cliffs 3                      Black Shark 2                                 Syria
  • A-10C Tank killer 2                Black Shark 3                                 Persian Gulf
  • F/A18C Hornet                       AH-64 Apache                               Mariana's
  • F-16C Viper   
  • F-15E Strike Eagle                   
  • Mirage 2000C
  • AJS-37 Viggen
  • JF-17 Thunder
  • F-14 Tomcat
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BLG-66 is a cluster munition dispenser. Like MK-20, BL-755, CBU-54 (F-5E), CBU-87. In DCS it is designated as BLG-66-AC. I am not certain what AC is. Perhaps it is a Anti-runway Cratering variant. As far as Internet goes, the submunitions are just normal HE/EFP for use against soft and light armored vehicles.

 

BAP-100 is sort of a cluster. Its like 6 small bombs attached to a dispenser but there is no exterior shell. The bomb detaches, deploys a drag parachute, and at some height, fires a rocket motor which drives munition into runway surface, and weapon detonates heaving slabs of concrete and causing a large crater. Its smaller and lighter then earlier Durandal.

 

That's it but actually carried by 18.

 

So the BAP-100 would be used to damage the runway, and the BLG-66 IZ on top of it to delay repair.

 

BLG-66 EC to damage anything else on an airfield. :smilewink:

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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Thats about right. But RAZBAM did not , despite early goal, of including BAP-100. RAF retired its Tornadoes in April of 2019. Which is sad, as that it is still a usefull platform, and is still in use in Germany and Italy. Maybe now British variant of Tornado GR4 is more likely for DCS.

There are, to best of my knowledge, no implementation of Durandal or any other rocket assisted cratering. There is one for FC3 Russian aircraft, but FC3 is perhaps not to be counted.

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And no internal jamming pod, F-16A needed a external POD.

 

Yes, you are right. I think the US F16c's today still use external pods, while for example Israeli and MLU versions carry internal jammers

         Planes:                                      Choppers:                                       Maps:

  • Flaming Cliffs 3                      Black Shark 2                                 Syria
  • A-10C Tank killer 2                Black Shark 3                                 Persian Gulf
  • F/A18C Hornet                       AH-64 Apache                               Mariana's
  • F-16C Viper   
  • F-15E Strike Eagle                   
  • Mirage 2000C
  • AJS-37 Viggen
  • JF-17 Thunder
  • F-14 Tomcat
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F-16C single seat do carry ALQ-131 and ALQ-184 as a belly pod. It is known that F-16 can have internal ECM and other mission equipment in the dorsal spine, when installed. How many F-16s in USAF and NATO air forces have that option ? I am not certain. Block 60 of Israeli and UAE have it integrated. Block 50 is certainly limited to carry ECM pod on center station. Those pods are heavy, about 500 lb. Thats 500 lb of fuel or munitions that F-16 can carry, if the mission does not need it.

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As far for the MLU variants, the Dutch, Norwegian, Portugese and Belgium have internal ECM's

 

 

Also some Jordanian aircraft have them, but these are ex-Dutch airforce jets

         Planes:                                      Choppers:                                       Maps:

  • Flaming Cliffs 3                      Black Shark 2                                 Syria
  • A-10C Tank killer 2                Black Shark 3                                 Persian Gulf
  • F/A18C Hornet                       AH-64 Apache                               Mariana's
  • F-16C Viper   
  • F-15E Strike Eagle                   
  • Mirage 2000C
  • AJS-37 Viggen
  • JF-17 Thunder
  • F-14 Tomcat
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No, at least in Belgium they still use jamming pod.

Internal jamming was planned but scrapped.

 

I doubt that others MLU F-16 got internal jammer...

 

F-16AM%20(Nederland)_027.jpg

 

Dutch F-16AM, AIM-120, JHMCS but ALQ-131

 

I think Polish F-16 Block 52+ have internal jammer


Edited by jojo

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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On F-16, the internal jammer goes into dorsal spine, when one is installed.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0ryq6n8F&id=C5AD5395B62CDD28651BC95711C4E7209658AD99&thid=OIP.0ryq6n8FhoIJF9aWSNydlAHaFk&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.aviationmegastore.com%2fimg%2fprod%2ffull%2fe%2f7%2f158494_0.jpg&exph=451&expw=600&q=F-16+with+dorsal+spine&simid=608009000084638065&selectedIndex=6&ajaxhist=0

 

Also , on modernized USAF F-16C Block 50/52 with AESA radar. The AESA radar doubles as an ECM pod. It bombards threat illuminator, or missile, with massive amounts of EM energy, overloading its capacitance. I think thats how it works.

ALQ-131 pods are really powerful, and at least partially self powered by internal ram-air turbine.

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the models represented in DCS world are "upgraded" versions of the orginial jets which dates from the early 80's.

 

Comparing these jets together makes no sense...

 

Funny fact however when the F16 and F18 came out, the Mirage was superior, due to the Matra 530 performing better than the Sparrow and the F16 could only carry Sidewinders

It makes sense, because I was talking about what we have in DCS, because that's what the OP was talking about. Sure, if we compare the initial variants of those 3 aircraft, the Mirage 2000C is looking pretty good, especially compared to the Sidewinder only F-16A, but in DCS we have the mid 00s F/A-18C Lot 20 and F-16C Block 50, while our Mirage is the 80s Mirage 2000C RDI.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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It makes sense, because I was talking about what we have in DCS, because that's what the OP was talking about. Sure, if we compare the initial variants of those 3 aircraft, the Mirage 2000C is looking pretty good, especially compared to the Sidewinder only F-16A, but in DCS we have the mid 00s F/A-18C Lot 20 and F-16C Block 50, while our Mirage is the 80s Mirage 2000C RDI.

 

Yes, but if you limit your Hornet to AIM-9M & AIM-7M, turn off L16 and JHMCS you pretty much have a Desert Storm Hornet from 1991. :smilewink:

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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the models represented in DCS world are "upgraded" versions of the orginial jets which dates from the early 80's.

 

 

Comparing these jets together makes no sense...

 

 

Funny fact however when the F16 and F18 came out, the Mirage was superior, due to the Matra 530 performing better than the Sparrow and the F16 could only carry Sidewinders

 

 

 

 

 

The F-16A first went to squadrons in 1978 and had been in combat before the first Mirage 2000s went to squadrons in 1983. Then probably about another 4 or 5 years before it got the RDI, 530D and Magic II IIRC :thumbup:

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