Jump to content

Flying this has been the most frustrating experience of my life, any tips?


Gimbal

Recommended Posts

I love the F-14 and I'm certainly no stranger to DCS or flight simulation in general. I've flown many modules and high fidelity add-on aircraft throughout the years and nothing has given me as much trouble as this.

 

I've been doing nothing but fighting with the aircraft when it comes to controlling it, maintaining speed, altitude, etc

 

Maybe it's an over-reliance on modern HUDs or poor airman-ship in general but there are some very basic things I'm struggling with and just can't seem to wrap my head around despite hours of practice. I've watched a ton of videos but these are mostly on how to interpret the systems and procedures "Make sure you're at 800 feet by X" and not really "Here's the proper way to descend in a turn and maintain 800 feet".

 

 

-Getting the aircraft level is a pain, or even just descending and ascending, I'll be going down at a decent vert-speed, touch the throttle a little bit and now oh look I'm descending faster, or even climbing, or anything but what I want to do.

 

-The same issue for maintaining a speed, this is a little bit better but coupled with the altitude issue it's just extremely hard because if I touch my speed or even breath too hard the aircraft is going to do something I don't want it to do.

 

-The on-speed AOA is really confusing, maybe I'm looking at it too much from a hornet perspective, but I can't find any resources that explain it. "It says I'm slow so I'll speed up, annnd not I'm at +30 degrees."

 

I'm really doing my best to hang in there and doing everything I can to teach myself, but not being able to accomplish basic tasks such as holding an attitude and speed, climbing or descending and maintaining an altitude is really discouraging, much less doing these things in a turn or such.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing so wrong but I'm fighting on the edge of just not being able to control the aircraft sometimes. I can always get it to do generally what I want, climb, descend, increase speed or decrease speed etc, but doing any of this with accuracy is absolutely destroying me, especially with a pretty lengthy flight-sim background.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More flight time. The jet just came out yesterday give your self more time to fly it. I find getting the jet level to be no harder then the av8b, don’t have an issue with maintaining speed and pulled off some nice landings with good AOA. So again just give it more time. You might be over thinking it too not sure but when ever I do anything like trimming or messing with the throttle to maintain AOA wait a couple seconds before making more adjustments.


Edited by A Hamburgler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

More flight time. The jet just came out yesterday give your self more time to fly it. I find getting the jet level to be no harder then the av8b, don’t have an issue with maintaining speed and pulled off some nice landings with good AOA. So again just give it more time. You might be over thinking it too not sure but when ever I do anything like trimming or messing with the throttle to maintain AOA wait a couple seconds before making more adjustments.

 

 

Thanks I'll give it some time. It's just rough, it seems like most people, yourself included have picked it up fairly easily, or can at least do the basics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fly the on-shore landing practice mission, then touch and go it a few times, going all the way back to the start/approach to the field.

 

It will get you started on the path to understanding the F-14's AoA and how it works. If you forget what he told you during the touch and goes, restart the mission.

 

Practice makes perfect I always heard.

"These are NOT 1 to 1 replicas of the real aircraft, there are countless compromises made on each of them" - Senior ED Member

 

Modules - Damn near all of them (no Christian Eagle or Yak)

System - i7-12700K, 64Gig DDR4 3200 RAM, RTX-3080, 3 32" monitors at 5760 x 1080, default settings of High (minor tweaks)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'll echo the sentiment that it's only day 2. There are people out there who somehow magically know how to do it all first day, but not everyone does.

 

But also, trim trim trim. I'm thinking of having to put the trim on a different controller than I normally do because this this is such a trim-happy plane. Any touch of the throttle? Trim.

 

And I'm not going to say you're hallucinating. Sometimes I wonder why the plane is doing what it's doing with the slightest touch. But I know that's probably me. This is probably THE most full fidelity, non-fly-by-wire aircraft in DCS. It's a new bar, and we'll all have to take time to adjust to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I noticed immediately is that the HUD symbology is very misleading if you look at it from the perspective of modern HUDs with their dynamic flight path markers. At first I was treating the bore sight line as an FPM and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't maintain level flight. It was then that I realized that putting that dot at 0 pitch angle almost never actually results in level flight. Instead you need to get comfortable looking at the vertical velocity ladder on the left and constantly trimming to zero it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I struggled yesterday pretty bad getting used to it but after playing with it on and off today I am starting to get the hang of it.. All I have been doing once I got familiar with the systems is just taking off and landings .. My landing are not the cleanest at the moment but each time I get better at it and it helps to get a feel for the flight dynamics..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your have to me much more disciplined with your scan when you don’t have a FPM/VV. Reticle placement changes with power and airspeed adjustments, so you’re always adjusting.

VSI has to be integrated into your scan. When maintaining an altitude, VSI will be your first indication of deviation.


Edited by Possum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it looked an uh-1 with wings to me.

i am in the same boat. couldn't catch a stable cruise flight

also understanding the speed is also pain.

FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado

Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60

 

Youtube

MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing is a pain, really - just a matter of getting used to our new baby. The training missions are quite helpful as well, to nail some of the parameters down. :thumbup:

PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit

Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

VKBcontrollers.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I can recommend is spending some time in the F-5 if you have that module. After my first few F-14 flights I realized there are a lot of similarities between the way each flies (at least in DCS), but the F-5 is vastly less complicated to operate. You can focus on learning to fly with trim and without a HUD, the gauges are easy to read, and you don’t have fbw to hold your hand. I’m not great at flying the Tomcat yet but I’m catching on quickly and I think 200+ hrs of F-5 time helped a lot.

One thing I noticed immediately is that the HUD symbology is very misleading if you look at it from the perspective of modern HUDs with their dynamic flight path markers.

I’m pretty sure the sole purpose of the F-14 HUD is to try and kill you. I knew going in that the “horizon” is at +5 deg on the HUD, but I still don’t know why. WHY?? It just doesn’t make any logical sense!


Edited by SonofEil

i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote=SonofEil;3838572}

 

I’m pretty sure the sole purpose of the F-14 HUD is to try and kill you. I knew going in that the “horizon” is at +5 deg on the HUD, but I still don’t know why. WHY?? It just doesn’t make any logical sense!

 

 

Turn off the HUD. It is meant for weapons delivery, not primary flight reference.

 

Reference pitch attitude on the VDI and power setting (use fuel flow) for your particular phase of flight. Pitch plus power equals performance. Power is set using fuel flow. Trim to remove all control pressures and make small pitch and power corrections. Note the fuel flow for a particular KIAS in level flight, then any time you set that fuel flow and pitch, and guess what, you'll end up at that speed.

 

You are flying a real aircraft now, it uses the same technique that you'd use to fly a Cessna on your first flying lesson.

 

There is an "F14 Handling Tips" article in the Sticky section above that was written by an extremely handsome and debonair pilot that may help as well.

 

It's just an airplane. Stay positive.

 

Quite interesting to see the difficulty the FBW pilots are having with a natural stability platform.


Edited by Victory205

Viewpoints are my own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I saw is that I have to be really careful and sensitive with my joystick (warthog) compared to other aircrafts.

 

Maybe I just need to correct sensitivity, anyway just stopping slamming it as I was doing with the F18 and start to apply smooth, small pressure helped a lot in starting to kill... MIG28s in that damned instant action mission over Nevada...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I saw is that I have to be really careful and sensitive with my joystick (warthog) compared to other aircrafts.

 

Maybe I just need to correct sensitivity, anyway just stopping slamming it as I was doing with the F18 and start to apply smooth, small pressure helped a lot in starting to kill... MIG28s in that damned instant action mission over Nevada...

 

It helps to set a sensitivity curve. I have a pretty steep curve on my end, and she flies pretty nice once trimmed out.

Modules: A10C, AV8, M2000C, AJS-37, MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-15, F86F, F5E, F14A/B, F16C, F18C, P51, P47, Spitfire IX, Bf109K, Fw190-D, UH-1, Ka-50, SA342 Gazelle, Mi8, Christian Eagle II, CA, FC3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[...] Trim to remove all control pressures and make small pitch and power corrections. [...]

 

You are flying a real aircraft now, it uses the same technique that you'd use to fly a Cessna on your first flying lesson. [...]

 

Quite interesting to see the difficulty the FBW pilots are having with a natural stability platform.

 

 

The problems in DCS are arising out of the inability to get more feedback than the visual when trying to trim out the aircraft. In real life (or with FFB of course) you can, as you just wrote trim away the control forces.

 

 

This is incidently also the same reason why trying to trim out a modern Airbus (if autotrim has failed) is really annoying - no feedback other than in instrumentation and the ergonomically poor placement of the trim switches doesn't help either.

 

 

And yeah, you really get used to a good HUD and all the information it brings you - which makes for quite a difference once it is not available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote=Gimbal;3838412

 

-Getting the aircraft level is a pain, or even just descending and ascending, I'll be going down at a decent vert-speed, touch the throttle a little bit and now oh look I'm descending faster, or even climbing, or anything but what I want to do.

 

-The same issue for maintaining a speed, this is a little bit better but coupled with the altitude issue it's just extremely hard because if I touch my speed or even breath too hard the aircraft is going to do something I don't want it to do.

 

-The on-speed AOA is really confusing, maybe I'm looking at it too much from a hornet perspective, but I can't find any resources that explain it. "It says I'm slow so I'll speed up, annnd not I'm at +30 degrees."

 

.

 

 

This aircraft simulation by Heatblur is nothing short of incredible! The F-14 is more of a stick and rudder bird than any other modern fighter in DCS.

 

To get the aircraft level first start with the Horizon display and the vertical speed then look at the HUD to see what that gets you to hold level.

 

Now - understand that every speed/power change is going to require a different pitch position to hold level.

 

For landing, the F-14 has a high pitch angle on final requires full speed brakes and DLC engaged. Make sure you understand what DLC is and how to use it. It should be mapped to your controller.

 

 

Pay attention to the E bracket in the HUD for speed adjustments instead of the AOA lights. It will give you a much better indication of the trends. Then once you are trimmed up on speed, make only very small adjustments to the power and use the DLC to help control your glidepath to the runway.

 

 

If you are getting a lot of wing rocking, you need to unload the elevator and trim more. Also, learn how to use the rudders to stay coordinated. Think - step on the ball to keep it centered.

 

 

Lastly, have a little patience - if you think controlling speed on landing is difficult, just wait until you start dog-fighting. Under standing "corner speed" and learning how you are going to have to keep coordinated and manage small pitch inputs along with power is going to be a whole other learning process!

 

Oh yeah - Don't forget to - Have fun!

 

It's just a game after all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What sort of control setup are you using, sick/pedals?. Curves? I'm not finding it much harder to fly than the F18 really unless I do stupid things at high speed. And it honestly feels more like I'm actually flying a real plane to me compared to many of the other modules. And honestly I'm no ace pilot by any stretch of the imagination. I do have TM warthog with a 10cm extension which helps alot with small movements.

 

The only thing that's less than great for me is reading the airspd gauge unless I zoom way in, but I'm on low res VR so thats on me, and not the module. And even then I can see where the needle is and once I figured out how it worked I could guesstimate airspd at a glance.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What sort of control setup are you using, sick/pedals?. Curves? I'm not finding it much harder to fly than the F18 really unless I do stupid things at high speed. And it honestly feels more like I'm actually flying a real plane to me compared to many of the other modules. And honestly I'm no ace pilot by any stretch of the imagination. I do have TM warthog with a 10cm extension which helps alot with small movements.

 

The only thing that's less than great for me is reading the airspd gauge unless I zoom way in, but I'm on low res VR so thats on me, and not the module. And even then I can see where the needle is and once I figured out how it worked I could guesstimate airspd at a glance.

 

 

I'm currently using a t16000m FCS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turn off the HUD.

Ha, I already planned on doing exactly that when I get home tonight, but do you happen to know the actual reason that +5 is the horizon reference? Was it unintentional or was there some hidden, misguided logic? It's just very bizarre.

Quite interesting to see the difficulty the FBW pilots are having with a natural stability platform.

Oh I'm having a blast with the flight model and it's not that difficult at all. The fbw guys just don't know what trim really is yet and that their hands need to be on the controls at all times. I've obviously never flown a F-14 but you're correct that the DCS version is obliquely reminiscent of some GA platforms.

i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the cat so far! coming from prop aircraft i would say it might be closer in terms of flying to a prop then a jet, definitely need stick and rudder skill which is very hard to come by in a sim as you cant rely on your internal compass (so to speak) to help indicate when certain controls are needed, I say that as some aircraft have very benign stalls or hard ones to notice, the Mig 19 being one of them, if you fly at 260kmh in a straight line, but if you decend and try to recover with no power change it goes into an accelerated stall, the tomcat appears to do the same.

 

 

I would say the best way to maybe learn the tomcat is to actually fly the TF51 and do some hard manauvers to build stick and rudder skill on a non fbw aircraft. Or simply to nail doing approaches on a land based runway and build up time flying.

 

Remember that it takes months of training for pilots in the military to get passed their tests and to fly the bird perfectly, safely and to its highest potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ha, I already planned on doing exactly that when I get home tonight, but do you happen to know the actual reason that +5 is the horizon reference? Was it unintentional or was there some hidden, misguided logic? It's just very bizarre.

 

Oh I'm having a blast with the flight model and it's not that difficult at all. The fbw guys just don't know what trim really is yet and that their hands need to be on the controls at all times. I've obviously never flown a F-14 but you're correct that the DCS version is obliquely reminiscent of some GA platforms.

 

Don't know. It works if you negate the outside world, but isn't meant for flying anyway. We all turned it off for landing. Heatblur got it right, I posted an image I took of what it looked like on deck. I don't think the forum software will allow me to post it twice here.

 

I would turn the HUD off for non combat ops for now, just to force yourself to use the VDI.

 

It's like how so many high school kids currently do not understand how to read an analog clock. The answer is to quit fighting it, and learn to do it.

 

The Blue Angels use an analog clock for timing maneuvers, as do we in timing approaches and push times. Once you do it, you'll understand the value of a sweep second hand.

Viewpoints are my own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the sole advantages of the xbox controller is that rudder work is easy enough.

 

It's a lot like the Mig-21 in terms of difficulty. Maybe a little easier to land. But with much the same propensity for wandering off when you want to check the F-10 map - and without the 'Just fly straight and level' button on the stick.

 

The hardest part I've found so far is the Jester menu. It doesn't map to an Xbox controller stick yet. That'd be dead ****ing handy if it did.

 

Tomcat also has something vanishingly rare these days. Useful DLC that's available on launch.... EA would charge for that ****ing thumbwheel.

 

It's definitely not the hardest plane to fly in the game. It seems to settle into the e-bracket easier than the Hornet for me. It's just that it'll wander a lot more on you if you don't watch it.

 

 

 

But if you want something that likes to go off on its own try flying the K4, or Spitfire. Especially the K4 which has pitch trim - but you're always at the nose-down limit unless you're landing it. Anything that isn't a Hornet or a Mirage needs to be trimmed to keep going - the Tomcat is no different.

 

 

 

If you want to learn the true value of Trim, take up a TF-51 and trim in three axis to let it fly itself. Until you change pitch, or throttle, or more fuel burns one side....


Edited by DartzIRL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm currently using a t16000m FCS.

 

So no rudder pedals... That could be part of the issue. I assume its a twisty stick?

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...