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Improved stability and dedicated server - Discussion


NineLine

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I don't think we should be taking swings at the single player crowd any more than the multiplayer crowd do you? A lot of SP guys come here, report bugs and help out. Let's not divide. There should be no division, both sides of the game need to be strong, it might be perceived that SP gets more love, but it's more because there are more variables to MP issues.

 

Entitled isn't how I'd phrase it, I'd just think it'd be cost effective in terms of communications per people helped to talk to server owners directly in a formal setting.

 

I don't support taking swings at either side, everyone ought to have their fun, but like you say, there are more variables to MP so maybe working with the people who develop and run MP servers will help to fix things. More complex, more resources? Waiting eagerly to see tomorrow's newsletter.

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Entitled isn't how I'd phrase it, I'd just think it'd be cost effective in terms of communications per people helped to talk to server owners directly in a formal setting.

 

I don't support taking swings at either side, everyone ought to have their fun, but like you say, there are more variables to MP so maybe working with the people who develop and run MP servers will help to fix things. More complex, more resources? Waiting eagerly to see tomorrow's newsletter.

 

We take reports from everyone, we have described what we need, and many of them provide it. We also have a Tester that runs a server as well (and we have our own internal server), there is plenty of communication going on, it doesn't make solutions any easier when the core has been in such flux. Now it's calming down and now we are seeing moves made on MP.

 

I know you are trying to help, but it's getting slightly old having you suggesting (in multiple threads across multiple forums) ED doesn't communicate well or that we aren't taking the time to listen to issues. So many bug reports, logs videos and such are submitted from user submitted bug reports, including MP issues. We aren't perfect, no system will be, I submit community reports each month to the top of ED showing the good, bad and ugly of whats going on. But it doesn't mean issues are solved overnight.

 

The sad thing is, at the end of all this MP hoopla, most will paint a picture of ED reacting to a forum flare up when research and development into this MP/Dedicated Server started a while back as the core game tightened up.

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Appreciate its complicated, but still expect it to be fixed.

 

Yeah, but if/when 3rd party script kludge is to blame, it definitely isn't ED who's responsible. Am not saying things can't or shouldn't be improved however, but blame where blame's due still.

 

Now it's calming down

 

...but this is reassuring to hear regardless ;)

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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I guess you didnt read the whole thing. I said there were issues in multiplayer. They even said they are working on some of the stuff.

 

Face it, many of the items above is based upon a handful of servers with thousand of lines of scripting.

 

This sounds like its coming from someone that has never written a line of code or attempted to develop a multiplayer mission. You can have 3 lines of script but there are fundamental problems with MP that have nothing to do with either decent or poorly written code. Or any code for that matter.

 

I'm not going to educate you on what all these are because its well known in the community and been reported on the forums for years.

 

The only good news is that it seems that MAYBE, finally there has been some effort put towards fixing these fundamental problems. Time will tell.

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As someone who played a lot of MP but never posted anything on the thread...

 

Thanks for all the responses that you guys gave us (NineLine,Wags,All other DCS Devs).

 

 

Taking this opportunity, I just would like to say that MP experience has been somewhat frustrating for me from time to time, and I do purchase all of my modules to be used in MP, and I would definitely support any priority for fixing all the MP issues than pushing out more content. And I wish things can move faster and come sooner rather than later.

 

 

But thanks for all the amazing works and wish you guys all the best!

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We all know this will get worked on at some point right..?

 

ED has been hard at work over the years upgrading to DX11, rebuilding graphic engines, building new map technology and map tools, merging 2.5 and just now releasing the hornet.

 

We also know they are working on multithreading and the vulkan api to speed up the core and this would effect going forward with totally rebuilding the net code to suit. Well until that gets sorted and somewhat stable I guess.

 

I think they deserve a little breather? It seems the pitchforks are always very close by and ready to come back out at the drop of a hat.

 

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I run the community of 70 pilots (20-25 active every weekend) , some of them moved from another SIM (with it's roots in 90') and trust me - MP stability issues are a huge problem and showstopper for our further growth.

 

Just yesterday our "server" got in trouble, standard scenario: desync and death after 1h of flight. Image the hate for the ED : Friday evening, well prepared mission, 30min briefing, 4-5 flights in the air and just a few minutes after first engagement the game is over before 10PM...

The stream if somebody would think that I have invented this scenario for this thread :

 

I dumped the logs, send it to the support and - I have to admit the reaction time is good - got the standard response:

Hello,

Thank you for your crash log

 

We checked it and found that will be difficult to reproduce the same

 

If you meet the same crash please let me know and try to specify the problem

 

Good luck

 

Non counting total fanboys loving every YT movie or approving another "general marketing statement" from one or another over-hyped "ED's rockstars" , most of the community leaders worldwide really would love to see the dedicated server.

 

Taking the stats - who cares about Yak40? who cares about F4 or another module, while the core is buggy/unfinished, game master (combined arms) is a sad joke and you have a few unfinished, WIP modules sold in early access already?

 

I run the server, manage the forum, manage the donations to keep the server alive and - believe me or not - make people purchase ED modules. What i get instead? NOTHING , I need to give ED another $40 for every map I would like to run on our server... :cry:

 

Don't get me wrong - DCS is actually the only one on this piece of market, there is none real alternative and I do not expect to see one soon. You, ED are in the perfect business spot to make this huge and live happy for the next dozen of years, but hire someone who understand the communities, the market and... can create and keep schedules (tip: it's called Project Manager).

 

This thread and all the discussions worldwide on thousends of TeamSpeak servers, Discord's and forums shows that people are really getting bored of all your marketing templates:

"we can hear you", "we work hard", "we will fix" ...

 

Hear the community: I believe it's not difficult to create Top5 goals for the next 12 months by just reading all this forum. I personally don't think that starting development of another module while you have dozen to finish first will be on the list.

Once Top5 is created, make a roadmap and publish it ...

 

I also don't believe this post or thread will change anything, but it's good too see that people worldwide are getting more and more frustrated with the situation.

There was the "star/space adventure title" once, developed and released by some other company - they even had their own "youtube rockstar", they created huge hype, sell a lot via pre-orders and... ended in total disaster. ED don't be like them, please...

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Multiplayer i can hardly be bothered to discuss it anymore.

Its been going on since DCS started, the amount of fiddling server admins have to do to make the most basic of missions stable is still needing to be done today. Missions created with days and months of work broken by updates, the list is too exhaustive and I care for it not much anymore. Yes the mp community feels it has been ignored for far too long.

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I don't think we should be taking swings at the single player crowd any more than the multiplayer crowd do you? A lot of SP guys come here, report bugs and help out. Let's not divide. There should be no division, both sides of the game need to be strong, it might be perceived that SP gets more love, but it's more because there are more variables to MP issues.

 

I'm not taking a swing at anyone here, I'm suggesting that there are some damned talented, helpful and selfless people out there in the MP community that help a LOT of your customers get your products working to the best of their ability and ultimately generating you revenue.

 

My point was not to say that anybody who buys a module and never plays online is worth less than any other player. If that's how the community of SP guys reading this took it, I apologise.

 

What I am saying that there are some fantastic people out there keeping this simulation going through the highs and the lows with their own time and money and they should be listened to. Much like a lot of other games out there have 'Town Halls' with leading members of the community passing on feedback to the developers of the game what works in the real world and what doesn't, after all, closed beta testing can only go so far and cannot hope to encompass every aspect of play.

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Indeed, the server Admins and MP Community Admins sell a massive amount of modules by jumping on the enthusiasm bandwagon with the latest and greatest module.

 

I've sat there in discords getting people pumped and focused and joining up for every module. I'm a small small cog and I've brought in hundreds of dollars on modules that otherwise people wouldn't have seen the point of unless they were playing with friends that had them too.

 

 

Single players come and go silently, MP communities are breeding grounds for faithful customers who stick around. It's why we are noisy here. it's in MP where things can go from dreams to reality, emergent gameplay and team work and very very long happy memories. I can't think of a single memory of something interesting happening when playing offline, but I have videos going back years of moments where the excitement was so tense people were choking on it.

 

 

The MP communities are also places where the loyal have the better spending power, It makes sense in every way to nurture it.

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I have to agree with several postesrs have said, I spend a LOT of time working on trying to get my missions

working best as possible, thus providing a nice environment for new people to learn how to fly/shoot

I hope that by providing a safe (no TKing allowed) place for people new to DCS / new to DCS in MP

can get up to speed, learn from other players and have good fun

 

 

From doing admin on gaming servers for a very very long time, some stuff

that would be good for administration on a server and handy for clients

 

Command Example Description

#login password #login adminPW Log in as the admin. Password is stored in server config file eg passwordAdmin = "Ninelinesisawesome"

#logout Admin log out.

 

#mission filename #mission mymission.miz changes currently running mission to mymission.miz

#missions open select select mission GUI.

 

#userlist prints out list a players/UCID and their Player#

 

Allows you to ban a player. Their ID will be added to the ban.txt (server reads this and decides to let people in or not)

#exec ban name #exec ban nickName

#exec ban ID #exec ban a35677b3ce4fd3

#exec ban Player# #exec ban 3

 

Allows you to kick a player.

#kick name #kick nickName

#kick ID #kick a35677b3ce4fd3

#kick Player# #kick 3

 

client access control

#lock locks the server (no new clients can connect)

#unlock unlocks the server, new clients can connect again

 

Some stuff for Clients starting up - making life easier

 

standard connect to open server

dcs.exe -connect=IP/Name of server -port=server_port

eg

dcs.exe -connect=havoc-company.com -port=10308

 

connect to passworded server

dcs.exe -connect=IP/Name of server -port=server_port -password=password

eg

dcs.exe -connect=192.168.1.69 -port=10308 -password=ED_are_great


Edited by Johnny_Rico

METAR weather for DCS World missions

 

Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE

Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203

SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245

Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests

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I can't think of a single memory of something interesting happening when playing offline

 

Well I bloody well can, having done a bunch of missions using the scripting frameworks available for the sim. But then I'm a bit of a nerd, whereas furballers I've seen are usually anything but.

 

Now I do fly OL too, albeit mostly coops running the missions I make. Comes to these big public servers however? Well from my POV they're just crap. No briefings to speak of, no sensible taskings for groundpounders / helo guys, no continuity, no MISSION really, the TOD always 12.00 AM without any weather, just furball BS where all kinds of arcade fighter jocks compare their willies. And this, according to you, should somehow be the zenith of this sim? Please.

 

Coops, however, are a different ballgame altogether. But to say this sim should be developed according to what these very vocal, but otherwise limited, furball bozos say? Well thanks, but no thanks.

 

/rant ;)

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Well I bloody well can, having done a bunch of missions using the scripting frameworks available for the sim. But then I'm a bit of a nerd, whereas furballers I've seen are usually anything but.

 

Now I do fly OL too, albeit mostly coops running the missions I make. Comes to these big public servers however? Well from my POV they're just crap. No briefings to speak of, no sensible taskings for groundpounders / helo guys, no continuity, no MISSION really, the TOD always 12.00 AM without any weather, just furball BS where all kinds of arcade fighter jocks compare their willies. And this, according to you, should somehow be the zenith of this sim? Please.

 

Coops, however, are a different ballgame altogether. But to say this sim should be developed according to what these very vocal, but otherwise limited, furball bozos say? Well thanks, but no thanks.

 

/rant ;)

 

Come try out Through The Inferno. They're clamoring for improved MP and they have everything you're looking for. Multiplayer DCS is definitely not just 'furball bozos' going at it in dogfights- and in fact I think that those sorts of missions work perfectly fine.

 

Also- furball bozos... :D I'm crying, that's great and i'm using it.


Edited by AspenGrey
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This sounds like its coming from someone that has never written a line of code or attempted to develop a multiplayer mission. You can have 3 lines of script but there are fundamental problems with MP that have nothing to do with either decent or poorly written code. Or any code for that matter.

 

I'm not going to educate you on what all these are because its well known in the community and been reported on the forums for years.

 

The only good news is that it seems that MAYBE, finally there has been some effort put towards fixing these fundamental problems. Time will tell.

 

 

Your right, I do not code nor make missions but I do host a coop server for friends and the amount of issues we have are minimal. My point was that just because someone says there is an issue doesn't mean there is one. It seems the servers with the most scripting always seem to have the most issues. It is called cause and effect. Just because someone makes a mission, knows how to code doesn't make them an expert in a program where they have no clue how it is actually coded.

 

 

 

I know server admins for weeks saying there was an issue with something in ED then week's later they find an issue with their scripting.

 

 

 

I tell you what. If the server admins are so big on helping the community and wanting to make DCS a better place then have them publish their missions and code. Let other people take a look, maybe they will spot something they are missing. Let other people modify it and put up their own servers. How many do you think will actually release it? It would be a lot better for the community as according to them that is what they want.

 

 

 

As for ED, they are releasing tons of updates. Sure there have been a few issues with them and sure there are some issues that need to be fixed but I would rather them work on verifiable, repeatable game bugs verse what some guy who thinks he know more than ED says.

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from the core of the discussion.

 

The crux of the matter is that while there clearly is room for improvement in the MP functionality, it's still daft to blame ED for problems caused by bad scripting etcetera.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Initially it wont be, but perhaps as it develops more options will be available. Has to be done in steps.

One other option would be to enable multiple instances of DCS.exe to run so we could spread our training and testing needs using the same server but different ports. Or make the single DCS instance so it can run more than one server. Maybe limited numbers of players on each instance, 2 instances 16 players each or 4 instances 8 players each.

 

One other ting that needs work is multiple spawn on each of the airfields ramp points. We are already getting to few spawn points if mission have all aircrafts available in mission. Either remake slot selection for player or remake each ramp spot to hold more than one aircraft. Something have to change at least.

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The crux of the matter is that while there clearly is room for improvement in the MP functionality, it's still daft to blame ED for problems caused by bad scripting etcetera.

 

Nobody is doing that, that's the worst idea one can take from this discussion; albeit sandbox which do RTD (return to desktop) easily on desync/script/net issues is a very bad sandbox...

Zapraszam na Gildia.org - polska społeczność DCS. :thumbup:

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So this is having read the newletter my responses are:

 

Re the Newletter post

DCS World Dedicated Server Update

With the launch of 2.5 earlier this year, we have been working diligently on an item we've been wanting to bring to DCS World for quite a long time: a dedicated server. It however was not until the launch of DCS World 2.5 was this possible, and hence the length of time this has taken.

As a dedicated server, the software will not require any graphics rendering, so no dedicated graphics card will be required and there is no audio requirement. This all greatly reduced server load overhead.

There will be a new web GUI to control the server. Operation of the dedicated server through the web GUI will operate much as the existing online server does now, but allow you to make changes remotely.

We plan to release the dedicated server in Autumn 2018. Afterward, we will investigate adding additional features to expand its capability.

Sincerely,

The Eagle Dynamics Team

 

Thing is though it sounds more like oh hey we ripped out the 3d engine and the sound engine.. that's gonna fix things. But with out ED giving us a lot more info it's still hard to work out if it will fix things and would be nice if Matt or some one would expand on them :/

 

1 . Will the dedicated server be able to be ran by game hosting services? (eg will it actually be a more managable size etc)

2. Will the dedicated server require us to still have to buy EVERY terrain module specifically for the server (it's costing people extra 40$us every time they release a terrain) as it's annoying to have to own 2 copies of everything if your running a dedicated server.

3. Does the decrease in overhead also include better network layer managements some of the data sent to clients really seems.. well pointless, a client outside of a battlefield commander shouldn't need to know what is happening 300nm away in high detail.. but they currently get all that information (part of what causes network use to be so high)

4. Are other MP functionality QOL inprovements coming with it? Because right now as other have mentioned in the thread with out mission planning capabilities a lot of the dedicated servers players are left running half backed.. because you have No means of mission planning except from in the aircraft.

 

I see a lot of finger pointing at 'high object' missions in the thread as the 'cause' of the issues, and yet missions that ran fine at one point don't at times or run very poorly in the newer builds etc.

 

Then there are a wealth of scripting bugs like oh events not firing for clients properly etc those aren't 'poor mission making' there actual 'bugs' that have been reported now for over 2 years.

 

Ideally the MP side of the game would get a focus'd sit down and one whole version cycle put aside for it, looking at things like :

 

- Pre existing bugs and issues (ala the scripting items etc).

- Server side improvements (ala netcode improvements, memory optimisations etc).

- Client/Server improvements (ala mission planning abilities etc).

 

The problem is that you see the back and forth arguments happen if that is brought up 'why is MP getting the attention' or 'Why is SP only getting attention', Both play styles help fund and keep DCS and ED going, SP reaps the benefits of everything no matter what especially given any multiplayer optimisations tend to also improve single player client/server relationships, on the other hand Multiplayer on the other hand some times doesn't, some 'single player' improvements can cause nothing but issues for multiplayer and the lack of clear documentation on scripting changes etc can mean that server runners feel punished for trying! Especially when your server just crashes only for you to find that for example in the last 'patch' cycle a script change some where has caused the mission your running to lock up but only in 'multiplayer' not in single.

 

just my 2 cents on the subject.


Edited by robgraham
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Single player is nice and all, but the real game is in the multiplayer, communicating and cooperating with people is the layer of this game that keeps me coming back, it wouldn't be as interesting to just repeat missions by yourself. I really hope dedicated servers improve the stability and performance of online play.

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Single player is nice and all, but the real game is in the multiplayer, communicating and cooperating with people is the layer of this game that keeps me coming back, it wouldn't be as interesting to just repeat missions by yourself. I really hope dedicated servers improve the stability and performance of online play.

 

I second that.

 

 

My game crashes about every 30-60 minutes that I play multiplayer, really annoying.

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