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3rd unanounced helicopter speculation


QuiGon

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Because that's the most frequent excuse we get.

 

And because of that we try to console ourselves/fool ourselves that this excuse really holds so it makes us feel better. And becaues we don't want to be Don Kihots.

 

Honestly I call BS on many of these excuses, for example when it comes to the Su-30 - the plane has been sold around the globe for the last 20 years and I'm positive Russia's enemies have gotten their hands on it, so there's nothing really secret about it anymore; it should therefore be no problem to model it accurately enough for FC3. But we still keep hearing classified.

 

And, in the end when it comes to this, what do we stand to win fighting against wind-mills or hitting with our heads against a brick wall?

 

That's why we just, resignedly, accept this "it's classified".

 

Thanks for speaking up on this "issue" as well. I agree 100% with you.

For me, anything that cannot be simulated because it's classified or not readily available can still be "emulated" based on the underlying principles. There is no magic or alien technology involved. Everything can be derived from other sources and implemented by the means of emulation if need be.

AFM/PFM/EFM flight modeling can be based on geometry, shape, weight, and thrust, etc, and I am sure there isn't a lack of info out there in general.

 

I would love to see ED upgrading existing variants of outdated aircraft to match what's happening in the real world. Right now, DCS is "frozen in time" when it comes to upgraded military hardware, and that's a real shame.

 

Nothing is stopping ED to (for example) merge the Su-25A and Su-25T into the Su-25SM and/or merge the Su-27 and Su-33 into the Su-35. These changes are all very modular - like it was in real life. ...one can dream.

 

But this is a different topic than Polychop Helos... so I stop my rant. ;)

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What about Tiger UHT? ;)

 

 

Please no, the UHT has no gun turret on the chin! That takes away a lot of fun for me, and is an iconic weapon for any attack helicopter :)

 

I think the HAD version is probably the most diverse in it's capabilities. But also the ARH seems interesting with the laser guided rockets. (might be able to hit something with rockets for a change haha)

 

Maybe if we ask nicely we'll get all 3 varients UHT/HAD/ARH :P


Edited by TomOnSteam

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I have my fingers crossed for the Tiger. ARH would be my humble preference, but I would pre-order any version of the Tiger if it was announced.

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Don't forget the HAP, I want to hunt some KA-50s

 

;)

 

Can go hunting in any of them though. Much better to get a gunship that has a chance against armoured vehicles.

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Sure fact is, you will not get the permission to model a F22 raptor with all systems to 100%, but maybe to 80%.

 

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Don't forget the HAP, I want to hunt some KA-50s ;)

 

Even the French gave up on those and are upgrading them to HAD standard.

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A Tiger would not only be awesome but much needed in DCS. BLUFOR needs a attack Helo like the Akula

 

Tiger is much newer and thus rather more advanced than the Ka-50. Perhaps something older like AH-64A or AH-1W would be a better match.

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It's not a wish-list. It's a helicopter made by (or at least IP rights held by) Airbus helicopters. So that narrows down your guessing quite a lot. I read in some other thread (don't remember which) someone talking like the Puma had been announced, however I have not seen anything like that. Was it in one of the non English forums?

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It's a current production airbus helicopter. The Alouette 2 hasn't been produced in a very, very long time. This is the current list of Airbus helicopters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Helicopters#Products

 

As for the Tiger vs Ka-50, I think it's a bit mixed. The Tiger is much newer and has far more advanced sensors. This should give it a substantial advantage in night time attacks. However, the Ka-50 holds all the other advantages. It is faster, more agile, climbs better, has a higher service ceiling and carries 50% more anti-tank missiles with equal or greater range than anything the Tiger carries.

 

In any case, I like atonium83's solution, just do the Tiger and then make the Ka-52 :D. Bluefor would be really outclassed in that case, though. The Ka-52's modern sensors, excellent ECM systems, superb flight performance and 24 above average range antitank missiles would be fairly dominating on the virtual battlefield.

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Thanks for speaking up on this "issue" as well. I agree 100% with you.

For me, anything that cannot be simulated because it's classified or not readily available can still be "emulated" based on the underlying principles. There is no magic or alien technology involved. Everything can be derived from other sources and implemented by the means of emulation if need be.

AFM/PFM/EFM flight modeling can be based on geometry, shape, weight, and thrust, etc, and I am sure there isn't a lack of info out there in general.

 

I would love to see ED upgrading existing variants of outdated aircraft to match what's happening in the real world. Right now, DCS is "frozen in time" when it comes to upgraded military hardware, and that's a real shame.

 

Nothing is stopping ED to (for example) merge the Su-25A and Su-25T into the Su-25SM and/or merge the Su-27 and Su-33 into the Su-35. These changes are all very modular - like it was in real life. ...one can dream.

 

But this is a different topic than Polychop Helos... so I stop my rant. ;)

 

Documents about new technologies are not available to developers, so we have to live 20-30 years in the past for 100% fidelity aircraft in DCS.

Gotta catch them all bandits! :joystick:

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So in 20 year I could dream to fly with on a NH90.

But what about a great 3 engine, 7 blades Sikorsky CH-53E Super Stallion?

Just to enjoy to lift serious stuff like a couple of HUMVEE or an F15... well also some Pave Low missions will be nice.

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As for the Tiger vs Ka-50, I think it's a bit mixed. The Tiger is much newer and has far more advanced sensors. This should give it a substantial advantage in night time attacks. However, the Ka-50 holds all the other advantages. It is faster, more agile, climbs better, has a higher service ceiling and carries 50% more anti-tank missiles with equal or greater range than anything the Tiger carries.

 

I think Tiger's advanced sensors would give it an advantage in all scenarios, why only at night-time? Regarding the other points, care to share some links? I mean, it's hard to compare different helicopters by reading Internet articles, but the top speed seems roughly in the same ballpark while I have my doubts that the twice as heavy Ka-50 would generally be "more agile", except perhaps in rotation response at slow speeds given its coaxial rotors, but the significance of this could be offset by the turreted gun of the Tiger depending on the scenario.

 

Regarding the weapons, it's a similar story (hard to compare without real life data), but e.g. Spike LR/ER or PARS-3 LR missiles give you a fire and forget capability which is a pretty significant advantage allowing you to engage multiple targets and go into hiding while the Ka-50 would have to remain exposed (plus that the Tiger's sensor array is mounted below the rotor thus significantly reducing the exposed area when searching for targets and engaging if terrain configuration allows it).


Edited by Dudikoff

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DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

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I think Tiger's advanced sensors would give it an advantage in all scenarios, why only at night-time? Regarding the other points, care to share some links? I mean, it's hard to compare different helicopters by reading Internet articles, but the top speed seems roughly in the same ballpark while I have my doubts that the twice as heavy Ka-50 would generally be "more agile", except perhaps in rotation response at slow speeds given its coaxial rotors, but the significance of this could be offset by the turreted gun of the Tiger depending on the scenario.

 

Regarding the weapons, it's a similar story (hard to compare without real life data), but e.g. Spike LR/ER or PARS-3 LR missiles give you a fire and forget capability which is a pretty significant advantage allowing you to engage multiple targets and go into hiding while the Ka-50 would have to remain exposed (plus that the Tiger's sensor array is mounted below the rotor thus significantly reducing the exposed area when searching for targets and engaging if terrain configuration allows it).

 

It depends on which variant of the Tiger you're talking. The german UHT variant for example has no gun at all (except optional gun pods), but it's optical sensors are mounted above the rotor.

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It depends on which variant of the Tiger you're talking. The german UHT variant for example has no gun at all (except optional gun pods), but it's optical sensors are mounted above the rotor.

 

Yes, I know, but that variant is a Cold War relic, kind of like the HAP (both variants only bought by the countries involved in the rather protracted development of the helicopter) so they would not be the optimal choice for DCSW (i.e. lacking a gun or AT missiles).


Edited by Dudikoff

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Yes, I know, but that variant is a Cold War relic, kind of like the HAP (both variants only bought by the countries involved in the rather protracted development of the helicopter) so they would not be the optimal choice for DCSW (i.e. lacking a gun or AT missiles).

 

It has AT missiles (HOT3 and PARS 3 LR). Given that DCS scenarios are usally Cold War like scenarios (killing tanks and regular warfare) it should fit pretty well.

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It has AT missiles (HOT3 and PARS 3 LR). Given that DCS scenarios are usally Cold War like scenarios (killing tanks and regular warfare) it should fit pretty well.

 

Yeah, but e.g. HAD would fit that as well and much more so why choose something not even the Germans want as it is..


Edited by Dudikoff

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg.

 

DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?).

 

Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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Yeah, but e.g. HAD would fit that as well and much more so why choose something not even the Germans want as it is..

 

That's true :music_whistling:

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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I think Tiger's advanced sensors would give it an advantage in all scenarios, why only at night-time? Regarding the other points, care to share some links? I mean, it's hard to compare different helicopters by reading Internet articles, but the top speed seems roughly in the same ballpark while I have my doubts that the twice as heavy Ka-50 would generally be "more agile", except perhaps in rotation response at slow speeds given its coaxial rotors, but the significance of this could be offset by the turreted gun of the Tiger depending on the scenario.

 

Regarding the weapons, it's a similar story (hard to compare without real life data), but e.g. Spike LR/ER or PARS-3 LR missiles give you a fire and forget capability which is a pretty significant advantage allowing you to engage multiple targets and go into hiding while the Ka-50 would have to remain exposed (plus that the Tiger's sensor array is mounted below the rotor thus significantly reducing the exposed area when searching for targets and engaging if terrain configuration allows it).

 

As said, it's mixed. I fly with my eyes outside the cockpit typically, so during the day the sensor differences are marginal anyways. Hence I think I'd favor the greater firepower of the Ka-50 unless I needed fire and forget missiles for some specific reason. The only thing that comes to mind where I would need them is if I knew I was going after an osa or tor. Those are a pain to deal with in the Ka-50, but everything else is fairly easy.

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Man, I would kill for MH/UH60, AH64, AH1, and MH/AH-6! And please tell the Sikorsky people that DCS is *not* a game, dammit! :)

 

In the meantime, I'll buy the Gazelle just to support you guys. Best of luck.

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And please tell the Sikorsky people that DCS is *not* a game, dammit! :)

 

Then they will charge them 10x for professional solution license. :P

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