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[REPORTED]Trees in Caucasus map look wrong


=4c=Nikola

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I'd say anything other than 100% is asking for anomalies - that's logical.

 

@Worrazen, how come your HW doesn't handle 100% trees?

 

I was overdramatizing, but it lowers the FPS by 10, which is enough to make it lag very noticable and much less playable.

 

It is reported, so the team will check what we have reported when they adjust.

 

Sure, if they will re-chech this thread later fine, anyhow but I'm motivated to continue to dig into this anyway, might uncover something new, I'm already learned infact something new right now, we also need to be on the same page as the devs so we can even understand the fix once it comes, and vice versa.

 

 

 

Okay so here's the videos, I'll update this as I go. Youtube degrades the quality significantly, the original quality was a 1080p downscale from 1440p and it looked great until youtube destroyed it practically. But the features we'll talk about should still be visible okay.

 

Keep an eye out for the SHADE/SHADOW bands as well, theres 3 bands when more details are added as you close in, they're assymetric, there's also a lighting band which makes trees lit up and shine a bit, but in the lower ends of the Trees Visibility setting these distances are so truncated they're basically 100 meters apart or so, so you can see all of them in one sceen if you have it located and angled optimally, the thing is, that the higher level shading LODs seem to remove the effect of the lower level and while that's not a problem necessairly, but in this case you ADD more as you go higer level, this is most noticable in the end of the 4 band thingy where the shadows that were just added are completely removed prior to the highest level trees becoming visible, that's quite a weird one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It happens in cockpit too, it really isn't view mode specific to my research, and the LOD is always camera oriented, so if you zoom in (FOV in case of cockpit view) the LODs will adjust as if you have moved your camera that far further.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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What is your Trees Visibility, that's the most important number we need?

 

As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it.

 

In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting.

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As you said, the slider makes no difference, the same issue occurs at 30%, 50%, 100%, it doesn't matter, it only affects the distance at which you observe the anomalies. I just included the options so that the devs had a clear view of all of the other settings I use that may be a contributing factor, such as a specific shadow setting that could be causing it.

 

Oh allright, good point, well, now we can do that when we know how it works and what's going on.

 

In your later videos, 2nd one to be precise, you nail the visual anomaly completely as I see it too. But, I tend to agree with BIGNEWY's statement that it could just be a simple LOD issue for the shadow banding where the 4th layer trees have been accidentally switched with the 5th layer trees, for example, as a starting point, and that would also back up the fact that it occurs with any tree slider setting.

 

There's several "annomalies" yes, I'd like to point them out even if we generally know, we need to point them out one by one to make sure it's all known otherwise the fix may not be complete.

 

For example, there's this Shadow LOD change line going down too close that's very obvious and unpleasing, it affects tree shadows but it may not be part of the Tree system ... more later.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Okay here's what I did with an exaggerated low ForrestDistanceFactor setting, which makes it more obvious what's going on, this actually led me to uncover a number of things I'll explain later.

 

 

 

 

 

From what I see, the LOD levels aren't linear, with the movement of the slider, but they're also not linear at either setting high or low, the high quality 3D trees only appear very close versus most of the forrest.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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And one other thing here, that may not be part of tree system, there's a shadow LOD level around the player that affects tree shadows, but it's placed so that it's quite obvious and sometimes you have this line and keeps following you if you fly in a certian way, it makes the shadows softer and more realistic but less dark and in some cases so much that they almost seem to disappear with some objects, like pylons.

 

I'm not sure yet if the disance of this changes when changing Tree Visibility, I think not.

 

Can be skipped to 1:10

 

The thing is, it changes the shape quite a bit and it's a big big change in one sweep so this could be improved but it's I guess a minor thing.

 

It's very precise, if I were to change the zoom level with mouse wheel it would go way back, so it took a few tries to get it right, to fly just about the right angle and zoom level.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
And one other thing here, that may not be part of tree system, there's a shadow LOD level around the player that affects tree shadows, but it's placed so that it's quite obvious and sometimes you have this line and keeps following you if you fly in a certian way, it makes the shadows softer and more realistic but less dark and in some cases so much that they almost seem to disappear with some objects, like pylons.

 

I'm not sure yet if the disance of this changes when changing Tree Visibility, I think not.

 

Can be skipped to 1:10

 

The thing is, it changes the shape quite a bit and it's a big big change in one sweep so this could be improved but it's I guess a minor thing.

 

It's very precise, if I were to change the zoom level with mouse wheel it would go way back, so it took a few tries to get it right, to fly just about the right angle and zoom level.

 

So glad you captured this in a video, that line does my head in and i have meant to record it for a while. It is very obvious especially when low altitude in a viggen or heli. :thumbup:

 

Please fix this ED!

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  • 2 months later...

Hi, just wondering if there was an update on this issue?

 

I've been having what I think is the same issue with trees (and their shadows) consistently since starting DCS over a year ago. Came across this thread from google searches after installing the latest version of DCS stable and seeing it still happening.

 

Would it be possible to have the option for trees split, so you that could could choose visibility and quality separately? I find trees to have a huge performance impact at when flying at low level. Personally, I'd prefer to be able to choose lower quality trees that draw consistently at all view distances.

 

Thanks!

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  • ED Team

I will try and chase up the report.

 

The issue in the above video is the border between cascade shadows and flat shadows.

 

thanks

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  • 2 weeks later...

I found a solution while working on my mod so might as well post it here too so ED can take a look. Normal maps on billboards are reversed. Red channel only.

 

BTW, these shots are taken from inside cockpit of Ka-50. Not from F11 freecam.

 

TreeShadow_01.jpg

 

TreeShadow_02.jpg


Edited by Taz1004
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Bit of an update on the flipped normal issue. Only the red channel on side views are flipped. If you take a close look at the images from my previous post, you'll see that top down flat plane is actually shadowing correct way. If you flip the red channel on whole normal map image, the flat plane will be backward and will stick out more.

 

Don't even know how something like this happened in the first place.

 

Tested at dawn, 2pm, and at sunset.


Edited by Taz1004
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Great find Taz1004 :thumbup:

 

Let's hope ED can use this to quickly correct this bug, because flying helo's is much less fun since trees look so awfully flat..

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