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CPU upgrade recommendation for VR 2.0


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Grettings aces

 

Wags praise to the HP Reverb pushed me over the fence to upgrade to said headset. Now to be able to push those pixels I am looking to upgrade my rig as well.

 

Currently I am sporting an i7 6700k, heavily overclocked, along with a 2080Ti. I get ok'ish FPS in VR but the image quality is lacking with the Samsung Odyssey.

 

What CPU / MB setup do my fellow enthusiast recommend especially for DCS in VR? A quick sloppy research pointed me at an i7 9700k in conjunction with a Maximus Hero XI. Does that sound ok? Any advice on AMD? Is the i9 series worth the money? I am open to advice!

 

 

Kirin out

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I would wait until Ryzen3000 reviews are available.

 

It will be a high clocked CPU with good IPC that you need.

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I would wait until Ryzen3000 reviews are available.

 

It will be a high clocked CPU with good IPC that you need.

 

Thanks for the advice. I am in no hurry atm. Will look out for the Ryzen3000!

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Few points:

 

1) There is currently no CPU / GPU combo out there that will push the HP Reverb at steady >60 fps in DCS. Todays technology... can't be done.* You can get steady >60 fps in simpler games, but not DCS.

 

2) Ryzen 3000 looks excellent - particularly on price / performance - but it is not quite the knock out blow against Intel that many hoped prior to E3 and Computex. Some of the leaks suggested 5.0GHz turbo speeds. However their $750, 16 core 3950X will sell in Sept and probably require a top end / strong VRM $400-500 X570 motherboard to get the most from. And that turbos at 4.7GHz, not 5GHz. Compare that to 9900K which is cheaper price and turbos at 5.0GHz. The comparable 8 core AMD part clocks lower still than the 3950X.

 

Early news about aircooled overclocking of Ryzen 3000 suggests that it will hit 5.0-5.1 GHz, but it is not clear if this is 24/7 type of overclock or really pushing voltage, temperature and stability. We will have to wait for independent tests.

 

However broadly speaking 9900K + RTL 2080 Ti is likely to remain performance king, probably drawing with 3950X + RTL 2080 Ti (which will be more expensive, and have more cores which is useful for video editing and similar multi core applications).

 

So should you upgrade? Up to you. Certainly a top end Z390 or X570 system will get you a performance upgrade, but you might still find HP Reverb performance in DCS lacking. It will smoke 1440p and even 4K monitor applications, regardless.

 

One final thing: you mention the Asus Hero XI. Meh. Check out these motherboards. If you are looking for high end, I think all of these are better picks:

 

Z390 (in order of price)

+ MSI MEG Z390 Ace

+ EVGA Z390 Dark

+ Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Xtreme

+ MSI MEG Z390 Godlike

 

X570

+ MSI X570 Ace

+ Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme

+ MSI X570 Godlike

 

All of these are picked on the strength of their VRMs and board cooling as the major criterion with feature set being secondary (and visual element being disregarded).

 

* Edit: You can get steady >60 fps, but only by lowering the settings to the point that there is no point having the HP Reverb.

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Why you compare 9900K to the 3950X is beyond me, the 3900X is according to AMD on par with the 9900K and is roughly the same performance and price... of course as you point out wait for independent reviews. 5GHz Intel is not the same as 5GHz AMD

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Why? Because the 3950X is using higher binned chiplets. And I was simply considering max performance, not value for money (the OP is asking about driving top end VR headset, not 1080p monitor starter computer). Both in terms of out of the box turbo and overlock you are likely to get better results on the 3950X, compared to the 3900X, provided you can cool it. (105W TDP, so not improbable). Testers have had it at 5.0-5.1 on air, but it is not clear if that is a stable OC or just a benchmark result. 9900K can run 5.0-5.1 stable OC with the right MB and cooling.

 

And on clock for clock comparison, I agree with you... we will have to wait for independent reviews. It looks like the myriad of architecture changes to Zen 2, the cache and memory controller in particular will put their IPC on par, perhaps even a little ahead of Intel.

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Hey Milou

 

Thank you very much for your input. Been looking up the MBs. You make some good points I haven't even though of. According to some reviews I watched Gigabyte takes the price for high end Z390 MBs.

 

Will keep researching.

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Not sure why "60fps" keeps getting thrown around. I have the O+ and am ordering the Reverb, I have no worries about the performance thanks to motion reprojection that limits it to 45fps instead of the standard 90fps. I can assure you, locked at 45fps its smooth as butter. (But higher res you say), still not concerned as the the resolution/ss multiplier being forced on the O+ is equal to or higher than what it will be set to on the reverb. I would wait to see how the performance is before you upgrade. That Oclocked 6700k might surprise you!

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I have not seen any 5 GHz Ryzen 3000 other then on LN2. Do you have a link?

I have not seen any Ryzen 3000 clocking as low as 5GHz on LN2. Can you post a link to these low LN2 overlocks that you say you've seen?

 

Meanwhile, you'd like a link to my statement that air-cooled OCs are coming in at 5.0-5.1GHz... sure. Here is one: Gamers Nexis words were "That 5100MHz overclock was done with air cooling on the CPU and is a result of better trace layout and a new controller design." https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3481-amd-navi-rx-5700-xt-specs-overclocking-architecture

 

3900X is on par with the 9900K, wouldn't the 3950X be even faster with it clocking 100MHz more?

Weren't you the one suggesting we wait for independent tests before comparing AMD and Intel earlier in this thread? I agreed with you. Fact is we don't know yet, but I imagine they will be pretty close to each other on a core for core basis.

 

Besides, like I said earlier I am more interested in the 3950X because it is likely that the better binned chiplets will outperform the 12 core CPU's chiplets, albeit by a relatively small degree (100-200 MHz on an equal number of OCed cores on air or water)*. Whether that is worth the additional cost to you comes down to personal circumstances and choice.

 

 

Hey Milou

 

Thank you very much for your input. Been looking up the MBs. You make some good points I haven't even though of. According to some reviews I watched Gigabyte takes the price for high end Z390 MBs.

 

Will keep researching.

 

Very welcome.

 

(* As an aside it looks like the 3900X chiplets are less efficient / more power hungry than the better binned parts. Such silicon is considered "leaky" due to higher proportion of electron creep over the transistors. Sometimes more leaky silicon can be forced to overclock higher than cooler running silicon, if you can cool it sufficiently. Hence it sometimes appeals to the LN2 crowd. But that is beyond my experience... I never got into that rabbit hole!)

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I just did a partial upgrade to my system (cpu, mobo, ram), and ended up with Gigabyte z390 Aorus Pro motherboard. Most of the reviews suggests it has the best VRM (voltage regulator module) implementation. VRM comes into a play when you overclock your CPU, and what I've gathered from the research is that Gigabyte did it better than other brands (MSI,Asus).

i5-9600K@4.8GHz 32Gb DDR4 Asus TUF rtx3080 OC Quest Pro Warthog on Virpil base

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I have not seen any Ryzen 3000 clocking as low as 5GHz on LN2. Can you post a link to these low LN2 overlocks that you say you've seen?

 

Meanwhile, you'd like a link to my statement that air-cooled OCs are coming in at 5.0-5.1GHz... sure. Here is one: Gamers Nexis words were "That 5100MHz overclock was done with air cooling on the CPU and is a result of better trace layout and a new controller design." https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3481-amd-navi-rx-5700-xt-specs-overclocking-architecture

 

 

Sorry I don't know where I got the low from ofc meant high... and the article is on LN. The 51000MHz is for oveclock the memory not the processor.

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You also have the consider the security vulnerabilities of the intel cpu`s due to their architecture which have resulted in anything up to and above a 20% hit in performance due to Zombieload etc. So a 5ghz intel cpu will not perform as a 5gig part. Lot`s of issues with intel, I`m saying this as someone who has always had intel and is rocking a oc`ed i7 4790k. My next build is likely AMD, who have also been breaking new ground with PCIe 4.0 giving 5gb/s data transfer for new gen ssd`s with Samsung getting 15gb/s in a raid setup. Ryzen 3000 brings higher IPC, double cache size for better gaming performance and support for 5000mhz ram, a big improvement for latency and VR.

 

.... and of course AMD matching/exceeding intel`s i9 at $499, half the price.


Edited by Zoomer
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You also have the consider the security vulnerabilities of the intel cpu`s due to their architecture which have resulted in anything up to and above a 20% hit in performance due to Zombieload etc.

Good point. Although you can bet the AMD applied micropatches to Intel CPUs when doing their comparisons.

 

Sorry I don't know where I got the low from ofc meant high... and the article is on LN. The 51000MHz is for oveclock the memory not the processor.

Surely you mean 5100MHz memory OC, not 51000MHz?

 

And I think you will find these memory overclocks do not require LN2. They would be done on air. Totally impractical and irrelevant however as they would require inefficient memory timings and golden sample DIMMs. Zen 2 has improved memory speeds however with a 3600-3733MHz / 1T sweet spot. Impressive and another feather in its cap vs Intel.


Edited by Milou

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Also keep an eye out for the 9900KS, its an all core 5.0ghz version of the 9900K

Meshify C w Noctua Fans, MSI Carbon Z790, 13900KS, 64gb 7200 Gskill, MSI 4090, MSI 240, Sam 1tb m2, Sam 512 m2, Seasonic 1000w, MSFF2 Stick + X56 Throttle, HP Reverb G2, Sony 83in A90J OLED

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This just leaked today into tom's hw.

 

AMD Ryzen 3950X Geekbench:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/13495867

 

original thread:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3950x-vs-intel-i9-9980xe-geekbench,39640.html

 

I would wait and see what AMD has to offer. It really looks promising.


Edited by BitMaster

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Also, I read today that AMDs performance comparison slides did not apply the latest security patches to Intel's 9900K (which would slow the Intel) and did not use the latest build of Windows 10 on AMD (which loads single chipsets before loading the other which would speed the AMD if used).

 

So on that basis the AMD promises much. Wait for independent testing? The golden rule is wait. But those that waited on RTX 2080 Ti were left waiting a month before having a chance to jump onboard after launch. Does that matter to you? Only you can say.

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the problem is, finding something for the other 6 cores to do.

any spare apps?

 

Totally OT, but you know what, with all that useless processing power at hand it's a shame this client OS called Windows 10 does not allow multiple indep. KVM to make a real multi-user Desktop. 1 round table, PC in the middle and as many users as you have cores and GPUs :)

 

 

Sigh...maybe in 2035, when Linux becomes the Windows Kernel, things become doable.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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Few points:

 

1) There is currently no CPU / GPU combo out there that will push the HP Reverb at steady >60 fps in DCS. Todays technology... can't be done.* You can get steady >60 fps in simpler games, but not DCS.

 

[snip]

 

* Edit: You can get steady >60 fps, but only by lowering the settings to the point that there is no point having the HP Reverb.

 

 

Are you using the Reverb now? Also, keep in mind that there is a big improvement for DCS coming shortly (I'm hoping tomorrow, but probably in two weeks).

 

It's been my experience that 45FPS is good enough for very smooth VR.

hsb

HW Spec in Spoiler

---

 

i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Are you using the Reverb now? Also, keep in mind that there is a big improvement for DCS coming shortly (I'm hoping tomorrow, but probably in two weeks).

 

It's been my experience that 45FPS is good enough for very smooth VR.

 

Hi Hans,

 

No. I have two setups. 1) A 5280x2880 monitor (Dell Ultrasharp UP2715K) with a TrackIR 5 head tracker and 2) a new Oculus Rift S VR setup that I am currently getting to grips with.

 

In the VR world I've only had direct experience of the Rift S. Not had any experience of older VR headsets nor of the HP Reverb or the Valve Index, both of which I am interested in. (I've been reading their threads on this forum to learn peoples' experience with these).

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Hi Hans,

 

No. I have two setups. 1) A 5280x2880 monitor (Dell Ultrasharp UP2715K) with a TrackIR 5 head tracker and 2) a new Oculus Rift S VR setup that I am currently getting to grips with.

 

In the VR world I've only had direct experience of the Rift S. Not had any experience of older VR headsets nor of the HP Reverb or the Valve Index, both of which I am interested in. (I've been reading their threads on this forum to learn peoples' experience with these).

 

 

Gotcha. Rift S is pretty good by all that I've read. And not bad performance wise. I'm also reading that other DCS users are getting steady 45 FPS with Reverb. So I'm hopeful. I'll know tomorrow night.

hsb

HW Spec in Spoiler

---

 

i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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