No Love for motion?

I'm very surprised. I see a lot of funds being spent on High end HOTAS (Me too!) and hyper detailed 1:1 cockpits, as well a VR setups. However, the subject of motion is almost non existent?

In the past, it was understandable, as the costs were through the roof at 5 figures or more, Or DIY options with very little support / information, and thousands in machining/ shop tools needed.

But, this is no longer the case. A couple years ago, a German fellow designed, both the hardware, and software for a low priced system, and he released it to the general public. The project comes complete with instructions, shopping lists, videos, and a huge knowledge base of builders now over 200. The only major tool needed is a cheap 3D printer. Though this was conceived as a racing simulator, plugins can be added by users for any sim with telemetry. A forum member here worked on and released a plugin for DCS, Others are working various profiles for the various aircraft. Another is working on a FA/18 specific plugin with incredible results.

A thread over on Race,dept was started, and it took off with hundreds of builders jumping in. But, where the heck are the DCS guys? This system, SFX-100, has been mentioned here several times with no interest. Only a handful of guys here have built one. I don't get it. I know there are dedicated simmers here willing to go all out for immersion, but have can you have full immersion without motion?

I truly hope more people here will jump in. That would generate more interest in plugin development, and would make it more fun having a community involved.

Here a FAQ page

https://opensfx.com/

Race forum mega thread

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-simfeedback-ac-diy-motion-simulator-thread.159524/

My cockpit. I'm almost finished with mine. It's a convertible pit that quickly switches between racing, and flight. This is a older pick from last month.

Waiting for the commercial version of this one myself: https://bergisons.simpit.info/motion-integrated-g-seat

Whenever it is available, I will jump on it. :thumbup:

Thanks for posting. First time I've seen this, looks fantastic.

The Bergisons videos on his website are great.

Wmacky what's the cost in time and money to get to where you are? Both are in shortish supply but I suppose that's all relative. Please keep posting as I'm very intrigued.

Yep. No Love for motion. Don't see the point. Seems like something for an 15 min event, but nothing I would like to spend a 4h strike mission in.

Happy with the JetSeat and if Berginson ever releases G-Simulation Strap for in a DIY version, this would be the peak of interest.

 

Happy with the JetSeat and if Berginson ever releases G-Simulation Strap for in a DIY version, this would be the peak of interest.

I've tried searching for JetSeat, any chance you can point me in the right direction where I can buy it?

This kind of motion system with short travel linear actuators works great for racing sims where it can simulate road texture, lifting of the car and small body roll angles. However for simulating flying forces this system is very limited what it can do. It's not possible to simulate the sustained accelerations of flight in this way. You could simulate aircraft buffet etc but then a Buttkicker can do the same much more economic. Often you see these systems being programmed as trying to follow aircraft attitude which is completely wrong. So to build something like this purely for DCS or another flying sim is not that beneficial, but for racing sims it's great and this DIY system is very well designed and made it accessible for much more people than the commercial high costs systems. Now as mentioned above G-seat systems are much more realistic in simulating some of the forces felt on your body during flight, so it would be great if a similar affordable DIY solution came like this. I'm sure many DCS pilots would jump on it.

I've tried searching for JetSeat, any chance you can point me in the right direction where I can buy it?

Sure, here you go.

This is the Topic here on the Forums.

This is the WebShop of Andre

Just a warning. The JetSeat is pretty loud. So if you fly while the other inhabitants of your flat/house are sleeping, its a bit too loud. you could try to dampen it, but then you can simply buy the cheaper vanilla version.

Thanks for posting. First time I've seen this, looks fantastic.

 

The Bergisons videos on his website are great.

 

Wmacky what's the cost in time and money to get to where you are? Both are in shortish supply but I suppose that's all relative. Please keep posting as I'm very intrigued.

The cost ( for the motion part only) was around $1700. similar D- box motion systems cost around $20,000 or more. A couple weekends time could built it.

This kind of motion system with short travel linear actuators works great for racing sims where it can simulate road texture, lifting of the car and small body roll angles. However for simulating flying forces this system is very limited what it can do. It's not possible to simulate the sustained accelerations of flight in this way. You could simulate aircraft buffet etc but then a Buttkicker can do the same much more economic. Often you see these systems being programmed as trying to follow aircraft attitude which is completely wrong. So to build something like this purely for DCS or another flying sim is not that beneficial, but for racing sims it's great and this DIY system is very well designed and made it accessible for much more people than the commercial high costs systems. Now as mentioned above G-seat systems are much more realistic in simulating some of the forces felt on your body during flight, so it would be great if a similar affordable DIY solution came like this. I'm sure many DCS pilots would jump on it.

I see you perspective, however, several builders have found it very worth while for use with DCS. Yes racing is the mainstay for these vertical actuator systems, but this system has quite a bit of travel for this type of platform. Using VR, the provided motion cues seem to do a fine job. A lot of movement can be too much. As you know, Being turned 90 degrees, or upside down does not feel right without real g forces holding you in.

Here's an example of the travel:

I think this is enough for good motion cues when using VR. No, it's not Ideal, but it doesn't cost $50,000 either. I feels fortunate that it was offered to the public. For those that like racing too. This is a top of the line motion sim, with a DCS plugin as a bonus. Whats not to love? IF you hate racing, and already have a mega expensive 6dof motion sim, then I could understand the lack of interest.

It really comes down to this. Is the extra immersion it offers ( even if not Ideal) worth some spare time, and $1700. I say absolutely. Others may say no. I'm not rich, but in the grand scheme. $1700 is not that much to me.

Or spend $1500 for a pre-built version of whatever that egg shaped one is that mrtv showed off at ces2020 a couple weeks back. Still beyond my budget but beats having to build it from the ground up

For flight, the heave axis is incredibly important. The egg-shaped bucket thing could be ok for racing, but an ideal setup for flight is 3-DOF motion (Pitch/Roll/Heave), e.g. the SFX-100, with integrated g-seats built in.

Once we have a commercial contract signed, Chris (Bergison) and I are planning to also provide a set of DIY plans for home-build enthusiasts to either build the Motion Integrated G-Seat from scratch, or to integrate G-seat functionality into their existing motion platforms.

Or spend $1500 for a pre-built version of whatever that egg shaped one is that mrtv showed off at ces2020 a couple weeks back. Still beyond my budget but beats having to build it from the ground up

Yeah, that egg wouldn't cut it for me. My Winwing HOTAS or Simcube would never mount up to that. It looks flimsy. My SFX could throw a 500lb man across the room.

For flight, the heave axis is incredibly important. The egg-shaped bucket thing could be ok for racing, but an ideal setup for flight is 3-DOF motion (Pitch/Roll/Heave), e.g. the SFX-100, with integrated g-seats built in.

 

 

Once we have a commercial contract signed, Chris (Bergison) and I are planning to also provide a set of DIY plans for home-build enthusiasts to either build the Motion Integrated G-Seat from scratch, or to integrate G-seat functionality into their existing motion platforms.

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I'm using it for almost a year now. Although originally built for Sim Racing, DCS is SO much fun in that thing.

Sure, motion is limited. But I can't live without out it anymore. Together with VR the brain is so successfully fooled by the motion, it's wonderful.

Flying a helicopter, you can feel when a sling load leaves or touches the ground. Or when it swings while flying.

On planes you feel when the wheels touch the ground - or leave it. Approaching stall and all movements are amazing. If you use the right settings you can set up the rig for feeling speed and all that stuff.

btw, I've made most of the available DCS SFX-100 profiles.

I'm using it for almost a year now. Although originally built for Sim Racing, DCS is SO much fun in that thing.

Sure, motion is limited. But I can't live without out it anymore. Together with VR the brain is so successfully fooled by the motion, it's wonderful.

 

Flying a helicopter, you can feel when a sling load leaves or touches the ground. Or when it swings while flying.

On planes you feel when the wheels touch the ground - or leave it. Approaching stall and all movements are amazing. If you use the right settings you can set up the rig for feeling speed and all that stuff.

 

btw, I've made most of the available DCS SFX-100 profiles.

And those profiles are appreciated! I've download them, and will start exploring them this weekend!

I can’t speak for others but I have two things I need to be able to overcome first.

1) complete my non motion setup to my likings.

2) room for a motion isn’t available in my current fifth wheel trailer that I reside in. Headroom as well as a footprint area. This one might work so that got me interested.

How many of you would like one and be willing to pay for one or has skill/abilities to help produce them?

Hi,

if you search the forum for sfx-100 you can find lots of information around my wooden diy construction, which evolved over time. You will find my videos in these threads are now private, but I opened a youtube account a few minutes ago, where you can find some of these older videos now to get some impressions.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/UaXv1CR4kxA

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Rpg10ERJQXw

https://www.youtube.com/embed/y5zRt6iwBeY

https://www.youtube.com/embed/VOHAEUmVl_8

I had a lot of fun flying in the pure platform, but it was even more fun, when i drove the old g-seat on the platform by some cables indirectly (passive g-seat). So much fun that i spent additional 4 motors to drive the 4 flaps of the g-seat (active g-seat).

The 4 flaps are connected to a racing harness, so i can feel not only the positive g's but also the negative ones.

In my opinion for flying a gseat with a harness is the cheapest and most effective version.

You only need the 4 motors (1300 €), some wood (100€) and an old rally harness (40€)and no 3d printer. But it is all experimental and there is no step by step tutorial to do this.

Perhaps this will exist at some point in the future.

So the easiest way is to build the platform as wmacky did and use the profiles from DthFrmAbv and some others which can be used instantly. You can upgrade this by connecting a wooden g-seat on top by a few steel cables and 2 pulleys. (120 €)

I started this fascinating motion hobby by viewing one of bergisons great videos and I hope that he can give the community some more possibilities soon to get into motion with flight simulators. I am very thankfull for his inspiration.

If more people would get into the hobby there will be more love for motion in flightsims.

I wish you a good start with your system wmacky! Please keep us informed about your experiences!

Harry

That's pretty impressive!

I'm pretty intrigued by all of this. I absolutely love the wooden look. We need a mosquito or hurricane in dcs to go with it!

So yours is different as you don't have legs coming up and down.

Where's the best place to start reading up on alternative designs?

Thanks for posting, I enjoyed the videos.

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Andrew, Thank you!

I think there is a small missunderstanding. My gseat is on top of the sfx 100 motion platform. So it has 4 legs too.

I would prefer my actual gseat over the platform for flying. But luckily i build the platform with AC Motors First and now i have both and for me they are very good together, better than the gseat or the platform alone.

As i know, there are some Designs for g-seats at xsimulator.com.

Another Design is in current development in the sfx 100 community and the current Prototype looks very promising.

Merlin51 and Bergison hopefully come out soon with their design and i expect it to be very good because bergison has long experience with gseats and is a real Pilot too.

@ merlin51 ,

I am happy to hear, that you will offer a version for platforms as sfx 100 too!

For flight, the heave axis is incredibly important. The egg-shaped bucket thing could be ok for racing, but an ideal setup for flight is 3-DOF motion (Pitch/Roll/Heave), e.g. the SFX-100, with integrated g-seats built in.

 

 

Once we have a commercial contract signed, Chris (Bergison) and I are planning to also provide a set of DIY plans for home-build enthusiasts to either build the Motion Integrated G-Seat from scratch, or to integrate G-seat functionality into their existing motion platforms.

Whats the timeline look like for now?

I'm more than likely a day 1 buyer.

This is hands down the best motion system I have seen.

Can only describe it as utter genius.

Small footprint, sustained pressure, and comparatively quiet operstion.

Not entirely sure I could wrangle being a 1 day buyer but I wish I could.

I like my motion system in DCS. Not at all necessary but a lot of fun and immersive.

This video is not DCS but you get the idea.

Another great build and video, cheers,bit all looks possible.

I just need some time....

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Full Motion

Whats up Guys,

I have read a few thing here related to Motion. Does DCS World support it?

or is it just a generic motion, no kind of sync to on screen activity?

was looking into one, however it seams the racing sims have it down.

Spuco64