Which direciton? VR or TrackIR+HOTAS for A10C?

Yup Rift S is a great headset providing your eyes work with the limited IPD range.

For those with big/small IPD's, maybe Quest will work soon, with an USB-C cable, the Beta starts next month, I'll try it with DCS ASAP, and I'll report in the forum.

Also in OC6 they announced hand tracking for Quest, if they finally release it for Rift S too (I guess that yes), I don't think Waggs could resist to add suport for it in DCS ;)

I'm still on TrackIR and have never used VR yet, so can't comment on that. But I hear it's apparently pretty fantastic, according to most.

 

Keep in mind though that the A-10C is pretty heavy on mashing all kinds of buttons. Input devices like the Thrustmaster MFD frames don't go well with VR, so a VR pilot probably would have to push the buttons inside the virtual pit for the time being.

 

In any case, VR or not, you still need to control yaw, pitch, roll and thrust, and a HOTAS setup (plus rudder pedals) is perfect for that. The TM Warthog is a great product, but it does have its flaws. Whether you pick the TM Warthog or one of the competitors, VR is no replacement for a good HOTAS, and I'm sure the VR experience will benefit from a good stick and throttle just as much as a 2D screen.

Slightly offtopic:

Don't take this the wrong way because I don't mean it as criticism, but maybe (definitely) you should try VR if you're a campaign tester as your title suggests.

That way you can also judge if a campaign is flyable in VR. Maybe it's a moot point but still, there's a difference (for the coming years for sure) between VR and monitors in terms of clarity and resolution with a nice framerate.

I'm not saying VR isn't useable or anything, on the contrary, but it still has a few downsides which should be taken into account when designing missions/campaigns. And since you're a campaign tester, 1+1=2. ;)

Why not HOTAS and VR?

You can get a used Odyssey or Odyssey plus for under $200 and it has similar resolution to the latest gen rift S and Index.

I started off with Track IR and I will never go back now that I have VR.

Yeah VR... I feel like most people voting for TiR either can't afford VR or have specific issues with VR that most don't have.

If you can run it... Do it. the X52 is fine.

Go TrackIR+HOTAS

VR is very immersive, but at the moment it is a struggle. Performance, clarity, ergonomics... it is the future no doubt, I still use my CV1 every now and then. But flying the A-10C will require good spotting of ground targets. Low level flight impacts performance. It is a very technical aircraft, you need to see displays clearly aswell as a truckload of buttons, switches and labels in the cockpit.

Id say start with TIR+HOTAS, you will have a much easier time to get a grip of the aircraft and DCS. Down the line you can get a used (or new) VR headset.

I have a really good computer for VR, but it feels like it is always an uphill battle.

All of the problems you mentioned have been much improved if not completely nullified by the latest gen headsets.

Go TrackIR+HOTAS

 

VR is very immersive, but at the moment it is a struggle. Performance, clarity, ergonomics... it is the future no doubt, I still use my CV1 every now and then. But flying the A-10C will require good spotting of ground targets. Low level flight impacts performance. It is a very technical aircraft, you need to see displays clearly aswell as a truckload of buttons, switches and labels in the cockpit.

 

Id say start with TIR+HOTAS, you will have a much easier time to get a grip of the aircraft and DCS. Down the line you can get a used (or new) VR headset.

 

I have a really good computer for VR, but it feels like it is always an uphill battle.

All of the problems you mentioned have been much improved if not completely nullified by the latest gen headsets.

+1. I went from a CV1 to a Reverb and got an enormous boost in both clarity and performance. Supersampling and higher pixel density settings have proven to be the real performance killers, not the native resolution of the HMD.

Well both actually, at this point I still do both. Sometimes I just want to see all the eye candy in all its glory so I’ll hit up my 65” screen with TIR. I have no issues with TIR since using it forever, I have it fine tuned and reliable.

Then there is the immersion factor of VR. (Oculus-S). I have no issues spotting.

So yeah, both for me which is not a choice, so no vote.

It is not the same results for all, there is the hardware factor

Errrr... funky poll

You can go VR and hotas without selling a kidney:

- Oculus Rift S: € 450

- Thrustmaster T.16000m flight pack (with rudder pedals): € 200

- Voiceattack software (in order to use voice commands instead of the keyboard): € 10

- A mouse: € 0 (I think you already have one)

Total: € 660.

Not bad to play VR with all you need, without significant compromises.

Nevertheless, maybe the a-10c is not the best module to play VR, since the cockpit is quite outdated; you probably will have to wait for the announced cockpit overhaul in order to get the best out of the a-10c in VR.

P.S. since the poll is between VR and the warthog, I want to say something about the t.16000 pack: the stick has the same sensors and mechanics of the warthog; yes it's plastic and not metal, and it is frankly uglier, but if you fly VR you don't see it, so who cares? Maybe the buttons layout is a bit worst than the warthog, but with some good assignments and a modifier you can play a-10c with no problems. The only real drawback is the single throttle. The good part is that it costs less than a half warthog, and you have pedals too.

I recently got a WH (and would never go back). I upgraded from an X52 (non pro), along with Saitek rudders which have been serving me fine for over a decade. I don't have the largest monitor. I immerse myself into DCS using TIR (4 even). I would probably love VR, and my PC would probably appreciate the usage it was made for. Unfortunately, I have hesitations. I wear glasses. I sweat. I don't have the ability to stand long periods. How is VR for those of us that have everything going on that VR doesn't address yet? I heard that you can get prescription lenses, and mod fans into the headsets (not talking about any VR in particular, just listening). I want something that is flushed out for everyone. I just figured that it would be a few more years before it got anywhere near usable for me. Am I right on that, or am I buying into rumors and scare tactics from the TIR guys (joke)?

I recently got a WH (and would never go back). I upgraded from an X52 (non pro), along with Saitek rudders which have been serving me fine for over a decade. I don't have the largest monitor. I immerse myself into DCS using TIR (4 even). I would probably love VR, and my PC would probably appreciate the usage it was made for. Unfortunately, I have hesitations. I wear glasses. I sweat.

The Rift CV1 was not a great fit over glasses. The Rift S fits easier over the glasses but still snug... contacts are best for use with the Rift imo.

Been playing DCS since Black Shark, lugged a laptop and Warthog HOTAS around Iraq while working as a contractor. 5 mins of VR with a Rift S and I was sold, I'll never go back.

...

- Thrustmaster T.16000m flight pack (with rudder pedals): € 200

...Not bad to play VR with all you need, without significant compromises...

I have to disagree. It is significant compromise esp. for someone who can afford VR (and a capable PC). I would consider T16000 line a budget one of rather poor quality. Using it myself I confirm that it is totally playable and still much better than cheaper HOTAS X but not of a quality one would expect. ?:

- day one mod - cut the wires that light the leds whenever you move the stick (terrible at night, in VR you don't see it probably)

- after a month had to disassemble because of twitching axis of rudder paddles (common problem often with stick twist axis)

- throttle movement is not smooth at all (jumpy)

- very sticky/stiff centre of the stick

- no stick force adjustment

- not comfortable big trigger and poor quality button on the base of the stick

- stick may be is of similar to WH technology but has much lower resolution - 16k vs 65k

- pedals (don't have it) are very close to each other and lack the range for any precise movement

Sorry for OT, but I wouldn't go into VR with low-end hardware.

I do not agree. If you have had problems with your t.16000 axis maybe you had a faulty unit and I'm sorry, but my axes are perfect. You do not see leds in VR (and all that green on the warthog can displease too); a bit of grease on the throttle and you're ok (not to say as It Is stiffer you can put It vertically and use It as a collective and It does not slide just with gravity); the stick spring is a bit softer than the warthog, but this is an advantage rather than a disadvantage expecially for rotary wings; the trigger Is Just One stage but It works, base Stick buttons are not so ergonomic, that's true; I can't Say nothing about Stick resolution as It Is something I do not know; pedals are a bit close together but I use them with copters with no problems. It Is up to you to choose if what warthog has more (It has something more over the t.16000) Is worth a more than doubled price, to have a system perfect only for a-10c but pleonastic and redundant if you fly korea era jets, rotary wings, f-5 and mig-21, warbirds, etc.

...

- Thrustmaster T.16000m flight pack (with rudder pedals): € 200

...

Sorry, but please do not recommend the T.16000 set. I got it. It worked, but it is cheap plastic all around. The pedals are so narrow that you can not use them for fine adjustment. The axis of the thrust unit sticks like hell. Stick is the best of all three parts. But still it feels like a toy.

The WH is in any way the superior product and worth the money.

Already answered to your objections. I have It, I use It, i find It good performance wise. It's cheap plastic, I agree, but you do not see It flying in VR (I fly dcs exclusively in VR), so Who cares of aesthetics?

P.S. not all dcs modules need a warthog. Only 4th gen complex aircrafts like a-10c, Hornet, viper, a few orhers maybe. But the majority of dcs modules need a lot less buttons on the hotas, and the t.16000 Is more than enough.

The new visual quality given by VR models like the Reverb make it a must. If you go with Oculus CV1, any of the first gen HP models or the Rift S, eh...then don't waste your money. Go with buying a good HOTAS.

Recommend

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Pedals: Thrustmaster TPR

VR: Reverb

Graphics Card: 2080Ti

Around $3000 on Newegg 10/11/2019

Your answer does not match the truth. I can agree about Rift cv1 or htc vive 1st gen, but a Rift s or a valve index are a real boost in visual quality over 1st gen devices and they are totally worth It. Maybe the reverb Is even Better in clarity, but It Is not so plug and play and easy to configure like a Rift s or an index, and you need a top level enthusiast pc rig to get the best out of It in dcs. To say "go reverb or money waste" is a silly statement. Everyone can enjoy VR right now, with a 450 bucks headset and a medium level gaming pc. Today VR Is no more a game for richest people, everyone can enjoy it. And I assure you you never ever go back to a monitor if you try VR.

YMaybe the reverb Is even Better in clarity, but It Is not so plug and play and easy to configure like a Rift s or an index, and you need a top level enthusiast pc rig to get the best out of It in dcs.

Not true. The Reverb is far better, performance-wise, than any of the headsets that need supersampling to help them. Reverb needs no supersampling, which is the real performance killer. How do I know? Because I actually have one, and it looks and performs far better than even my old CV1 on the same rig.

I use almost no supersampling with a Rift s and the visual clarity is far way better than my old CV1; performance too is better and I have a 2070, not a 2080ti (more than doubled priced VGA). Glad to know about the reverb performance, for sure its higher resolution is a must, nevertheless it is unfair to say Rift s is crap and wasted money. Not to say about the fact that Rift s is natively supported by dcs (I'm not sure I can say the same about WMR headsets, of which the reverb is a member), and that the reverb is from HP (from which I would not even buy a stack of paper).

For any other module I'd say VR hands down.

That said, the hotas is pretty important in the A-10, because the systems are so complex.

I've flown the A-10 with a Logitech 3d pro though, and used the 6 buttons on the base as modifiers to make the one hat act like all 5.

A lot of guys won't even fly the A-10 in VR because there's so much to do. It's really handy to be able to write down notes and such.

There's a mod to add a little notepad you can type in, so that pretty well midigates that issue.

So all that is to say, if you're willing to make a few compromises on convince, VR is frickin amazeballs and 100% worth it.

I'm using the TM Warthog HOTAS with Oculus Rift CV1 and the A-10C almost exclusively. The controls are not an issue. Most everything is on the HOTAS, the comm menu ican be controlled byu mouse. Using the F keys is not as intuitive as I would like... but I always have my keyboard in the same place and it is easy to find F1 then move to the right and find the desired one.

To quote Wrench: "VR is frickin amazeballs" :)

For the F keyboard keys I suggest a voice recognition software like voiceattack; it's only 10 bucks and you can forget the keyboard, highly suggested for VR.

I just removed the nose piece in my Reverb. That makes it easy to see all the keys when you need to. The little view of the outside world is a little distracting at first, but the VR world quickly sucks you in and you don't even notice it anymore.

nessuno505, I'm sure the Rift S is great too, just want to continue dispelling the myth we all believed at one time about higher resolution headsets requiring more horsepower to run. Its all the extra CPU and GPU cycles required to up-convert and down-convert every frame for supersampling that causes most of the performance drops.

With my CV1, I had to run it at 2.0 PD to get it looking good enough for me. But, because of that, I had to use the shaders mod and could only run 2X MSAA. Even with that, it still ghosted all over the place. With the Reverb, I run it at 1.0 PD, no shaders mod, and 4X MSAA. Only occasional ghosting in certain situations with that. The vast majority of the time there is no ghosting and no stutters. Once you get SteamVR and the WMR plugin set up, everything loads automatically when you start DCS, so it acts as if there is native support for it.

For the OP, as has been said on these forums a lot about the comparison of the experience between VR and a monitor: Flying in VR is like flying a plane. Flying on a monitor is like watching an interactive movie about flying a plane.

I just dropped a pair of CBU-97's over a convoy with my A-10C in VR and bailed out over the impact zone. While slowly gliding down it was a quite impressing view of the mess i created. After landing on the ground a walked the battlefield on foot and watched how the other guys on the server finished the job. Priceless experience in VR! And the sound was also amazing.