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Using takeoff rudder assist


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Good day all. Thought I would try the Mustang today with all rudder assist turned off. Bad idea on my part, every time I tried to take off, I end up as a flaming wreck off the side of the runway.

 

Part of my problem lies in that I don't have rudder pedals. My HOTAS has a rudder rocker on the backside of the throttle (see attached), that has 3/4" of total travel, 3/8" in either direction. Works well for taxi, but I don't think it has the precision that a set of pedals have. I can never get the right amount of rudder for any corrections during takeoff, or too much.

 

Until I get a set of pedals, I probably should leave the rudder assist on? Thoughts from the forum?

1516924214_x45throttle.jpg.d6779038dab914aaa61ee0c3896bc61d.jpg

PC: MSI X670E, Ryzen 9 7900X, 64GB DDR5 RAM, RTX 3090 Ti, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight pedals, Opentrack

Link to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DieselThunderAviation

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Good day all. Thought I would try the Mustang today with all rudder assist turned off. Bad idea on my part, every time I tried to take off, I end up as a flaming wreck off the side of the runway.

 

Part of my problem lies in that I don't have rudder pedals. My HOTAS has a rudder rocker on the backside of the throttle (see attached), that has 3/4" of total travel, 3/8" in either direction. Works well for taxi, but I don't think it has the precision that a set of pedals have. I can never get the right amount of rudder for any corrections during takeoff, or too much.

 

Until I get a set of pedals, I probably should leave the rudder assist on? Thoughts from the forum?

 

 

Or you could set the rudder trim before takeoff

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A few things and tips for you. I'm not the hugest piston guy in DCS, but everyone loves these old crates.

 

For starters, I honestly find that take off assist to cause more issues than it solves. Especially for something like the Mustang. The Mustang is super easy on take off and very forgiving on how you trim her up. Give her some rudder and aileron trim (varies depending on weather and TOW). Just engage the tail wheel lock and pull the stick back some to make sure it commands as much authority as possible.

 

It could help to write down what kind of settings work best, especially engine settings. It can be kind of a pain on a stick's twist axis as opposed to pedals, but the P-51 is a gem. You'll get the hang of it.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Thanks for the input everyone. I do want to note that I am setting rudder trim prior to taking the runway. Sometimes I also put some nose down trim if my wings have weapons mounted. I always lock the tail wheel prior to throttle up. And I ease into the power as I start, all the way to 61" MP.

 

Fishbed, I don't have pedals or a twist stick. I have a rudder rocker on the backside of the throttle that is suppose to be used by the middle and ring fingers of the users left hand (picture in my first post). A twist stick would be better than this thing.

 

With or without the rudder assist seems to give me the same result. As I roll down the runway, I tend to drift left of center, which I try to correct, and typically do. Once the tail comes up, I get a bigger pull to the left. With a little forward stick to keep the mains on the runway (still around 100 kts), I attempt to correct the left pull. I'll either under correct and end up in the grass or over correct and end up in the grass on the other side of the runway. By this point I've lost control, and end up with a wrecked aircraft. It certainly feels like I don't have the fine control over the rudder that I need with my current HOTAS.

 

The P-51 is my absolute favorite warbird. I'm starting to think I may have to shelve this bird until I get better hardware. I'll post a track either tonight or tomorrow when I fly. Maybe that will shed some light on things.

PC: MSI X670E, Ryzen 9 7900X, 64GB DDR5 RAM, RTX 3090 Ti, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight pedals, Opentrack

Link to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DieselThunderAviation

Commander, 62nd Virtual Fighter Squadron

Join the 62nd VFS today! Link to our discord server: https://discord.gg/Z25BSKk84s

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I found it pretty easy to deal with using my twcs paddles for rudders. Adding in 6 degrees of right rudder trim helps a lot. Also dont forget to keep BACK PRESSURE on the stick to plant your tailwheel. If you do those two things and gently throttle up (you dont even need full throttle) its pretty well behaved.

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Thanks for the input everyone. I do want to note that I am setting rudder trim prior to taking the runway. Sometimes I also put some nose down trim if my wings have weapons mounted. I always lock the tail wheel prior to throttle up. And I ease into the power as I start, all the way to 61" MP.

 

Fishbed, I don't have pedals or a twist stick. I have a rudder rocker on the backside of the throttle that is suppose to be used by the middle and ring fingers of the users left hand (picture in my first post). A twist stick would be better than this thing.

 

With or without the rudder assist seems to give me the same result. As I roll down the runway, I tend to drift left of center, which I try to correct, and typically do. Once the tail comes up, I get a bigger pull to the left. With a little forward stick to keep the mains on the runway (still around 100 kts), I attempt to correct the left pull. I'll either under correct and end up in the grass or over correct and end up in the grass on the other side of the runway. By this point I've lost control, and end up with a wrecked aircraft. It certainly feels like I don't have the fine control over the rudder that I need with my current HOTAS.

 

The P-51 is my absolute favorite warbird. I'm starting to think I may have to shelve this bird until I get better hardware. I'll post a track either tonight or tomorrow when I fly. Maybe that will shed some light on things.

 

Is it axis type rocker you have there ?

I suggest to set small dead zone + small curvature for this axis.

Then try to not push stick forward, tail will com up by it self, then don't push stick but put small back pressure on it.

If you force tail up the left pull is quite strong.

You can leave small back pressure on stick, then you can lift off at 3 point atitude.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Here are three tracks from a mission I made, takeoff from runway hot. Full load of rockets on the wings. No rudder assist or auto rudder, 6º of rudder trim set. Not looking to good, never made it off the runway.

P51 no assist.trk

P51 no assist 2.trk

P51 no assist 3.trk


Edited by Diesel_Thunder

PC: MSI X670E, Ryzen 9 7900X, 64GB DDR5 RAM, RTX 3090 Ti, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight pedals, Opentrack

Link to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DieselThunderAviation

Commander, 62nd Virtual Fighter Squadron

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1st thing which i noticed.

Pre open Coolant radiator for high power, heavy weight take off.

Stick, you should put stick full back,but once you reach full power you should center stick.

You hold stick until almost 100 mph, then you rapidly moving stick to center, this rapid movement not helping.

Try to let go stick at 50mph. thn wait for tail lift, then plane will tell you when it wants to take off.

With that load, im assuming that it would be something above 120mph, but i barely use speedometer in take off, so i may be wrong here.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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1st thing which i noticed.

Pre open Coolant radiator for high power, heavy weight take off.

Stick, you should put stick full back,but once you reach full power you should center stick.

You hold stick until almost 100 mph, then you rapidly moving stick to center, this rapid movement not helping.

Try to let go stick at 50mph. thn wait for tail lift, then plane will tell you when it wants to take off.

With that load, im assuming that it would be something above 120mph, but i barely use speedometer in take off, so i may be wrong here.

 

Graf, thank you for your feedback. I did the takeoff from runway as a quick way to get to the heart of my problems and have a short track to upload. In my practice missions I normally cold start from parking and set both radiators wide open before startup. They stay that way until after I am in the air (whenever I do get off the ground).

 

I'll practice with locking the tail wheel and then centering the stick as I roll.

 

A few questions:

 

Once the tail comes up, do I need to use a little forward stick to keep the mains on the ground to build up more speed?

 

Lift off speed should be around 150 MPH to avoid lifting off in ground effect, correct?

PC: MSI X670E, Ryzen 9 7900X, 64GB DDR5 RAM, RTX 3090 Ti, TM Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight pedals, Opentrack

Link to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DieselThunderAviation

Commander, 62nd Virtual Fighter Squadron

Join the 62nd VFS today! Link to our discord server: https://discord.gg/Z25BSKk84s

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Graf, thank you for your feedback. I did the takeoff from runway as a quick way to get to the heart of my problems and have a short track to upload. In my practice missions I normally cold start from parking and set both radiators wide open before startup. They stay that way until after I am in the air (whenever I do get off the ground).

 

I'll practice with locking the tail wheel and then centering the stick as I roll.

 

A few questions:

 

Once the tail comes up, do I need to use a little forward stick to keep the mains on the ground to build up more speed?

 

Lift off speed should be around 150 MPH to avoid lifting off in ground effect, correct?

 

You can have just a little froward stick but not too much, when you forcing p-51 nose to go down you experience quite strong gyroscopic procession, which will pull you to the left.

150 mph is too high speed for lift off. 160 mph is landing speed limit so you need time to retract landing gear. Remember to hold take off attitude after lift off.

Normally P-51 is giving signs that it wants to lift, then it is right time. I thin you can hold 150 mph for lift off, but you need to put p-51 in aggressive climb to not over speed landing gear.

Just remember to not swing nose up and down during take off roll this will makes thing much easier.

 

You were correct with that loading, 140-150 is lift off speed for me. I did noticed it after watching my take off

P-51.trk


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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