A.I. Datalink Guide Illustrated

Don't Be Fool, 1.2.3 broke the mechanics and my beautiful guide ! :cry:

And 1.2.4 resolved almost every bugs. :beer: THANK YOU ED !

Seems working well with 1.2.6 too

Lesson 2 & 3 available : Deal with a Chaparral or Patriot/S300 :book:

Hello Black Shark Community !

Today, my lesson will be about the Datalink System in Single Player mode. :smartass:

Don't get me wrong, the BS Manual page 14-6 is right, but sometimes, the A.I. Pilot will not do exactly what you've asked to do.

This guide will help you to send the right order, at the right time.

I've made some images, for lazy readers like me. :book:

Nota Bene : The Russian Map Editor is far more detailed than NATO Editor.

ED said the AI Helicopter threat reaction will be increased in the next patch. (right now, they're pretty dumb making strafe left/right at 100kph to evade AA threat)

Edit : AI has indeed a new threat reaction in 1.2.4. See below.

Off we go :

• The setup :
  

On a small island, are waiting (in order from left to right) :

- 3 IFV Stryker

- 3 HMMVV TOW

- 3 MRLS

- 3 Predator CP (unarmed - more like a structure. Fits in "Other" datalink point)

- 2 groups of M1A2 Abrams a few kilometers away

- 4 SAMs Avenger on the second line (4.5km range)

You lead a 4-group of KA-50, 6km south of the first IFV.

You've sent to your Wingman 2 a Datalink Ingress Point, and a Datalink Vehicle Target.

"Orange chopper" is the path that WM2 will follow.

Mission : DatalinkTuto.miz

• Attack Target Behaviors :
  

a/ Order to attack Datalink Target :

Every targets seen within 2km are engaged, with SAM first.

No Fly Zone is respected until Air Defenses removed.

b/ Order to attack Datalink Targets :

Every targets within 3km are engaged. SAM first.

No Fly Zone is respected until Air Defenses removed.

c/ Order to attack Datalink Target Group :

Every Vehicles target category within 2km will be engaged, sorted by threat level. NO SAM will be engaged ! (Since v1.2.4)

Therefore, if WingM 1 has not enough range to hit the farthest tank, he will try to find a better spot, following the No Fly Zone circle.

d/ Order to attack Datalink Targets Group :

Extend the Vehicle category engagement within 3km. SAM is still NOT engaged. Same tactic as C/ - F3

e/ Additionnal important infos (not illustrated ;) ) :

- For some reason, if there's no break in target position (for example, 1 vehicle every 500m) the wingman will engage every targets, no matter the range as long as he has ammos.

- If you send the whole flight with sorted targets (example : WM2 Vehicle / WM3 Others / WM4 SAM) They will not enter the No Fly Zone until air defense has been removed.

- Note that they never fight for the same target. They also "reserve" for themselves the next target in sight within a "tiny delay". (Example : Flight engage DTL Vehicle Target : if wingman 4 arrive on launch position first, he will engage the closest IFV, and reserve the next one. When WM2+3 arrive on site, they will share those 2 HMMVV, and reserve the third HMMVV and first MRLS)

If you want only one wingman to deal with SAM threats, send him first.

- Each time you send an attack order, they erase ALL their datalink points. If for some reason, you have to call them back, you can't order them to attack again without re-sending datalink targets first.

- Using "Hold Position" command will make your wingmen make circles (1.6km radius or more) around the true spot.

- Their also a chance after an attack that Wingmen doesn't return in formation, but do nice circles too around their former attack position. Use "rejoin"

• Ingress Point Tricks :
  

Yes, the ingress point is tricky, and bugged (YES SIR !), be cautious before sending your WM to a certain death :

a/ You have designed ONLY a datalink ingress point, and sent it to WM2 :

He will say : In Position, then make a 90° Left turn from his ingress path and Auto-Hover. (Hurray ! :cheer3nc:)

b/ You have designed an Ingress Point (sent) AND a random target (sent too)

Prepare to assist imminent death of Wingman 2. He won't engage anything.

It's there since BlackShark 1. But it's a minor bug anyway.

End of Lesson 1

----------------------------------------------------

Lesson 2 : How to deal with longer ranged SAM.

Now AI has a new threat reaction in 1.2.4, if you encounter SAM with a larger threat area, you have to drive carefully your wingmen to their engagement zone, or they will never kill anything

In my new example, the setup :

- Random ground unit (IFV / HMMVV / MRLS) on the first line

- 4x SAM Chaparral. 10Km radar acquisistion / 8km theorical missile radius / 4km true launch radius.

A/ You've made a SAM datalink point and an ingress point INSIDE your AI launch zone. Then ordered him to engage datalink target (group or any)

He will reach Ingress point, then get out of the no fly zone, turn back again and fire one Vikhr in a foward flight. Attest the kill, and exit the no fly zone again. Rinse and repeat until all air defense has been eliminated. Once done, he will auto-hover and finish the job.

Note, you don't need any ingress point if your own flight is already in the no-fly-zone.

B/ You're in a rush, made a ingress point too far from his (WM2) launch position or you didn't even made one (ingress point).

He will try to reach his launch position, but will abort when approaching the No-Fly-Zone. Rinse and repeat indefinitely.

Conclusion, If SAM gets toughter, force your wingmen to fight in the danger zone.

End of Lesson 2

----------------------------------------------------------

Lesson 3 : "The Patriot" and his counterpart, SA-10 S-300

A/ Let your wingmen in a safe spot (behind a hill via an ingress point or hold command (ATTN if using "hold", check e/ of lesson 1)

Fly low, use terrain masking and shoot the commander center or tracking radar as soon as you can.

B/ Same as lesson 2. but when your wingman will align himself to shoot (gain altitude), an enemy missile should be in flight already.

End of Lesson 3

------------------------------------------------------------

Now you know that, you will never loose a wingman again, right ?

I have other guides in preparation. If you don't like them, please tell me. I will stop loosing time for nothing.

If you like them, support me too :)

Erforce

Old images from 1.2.2 you can use them to see changes more precisely.

F1 F2 F3 F4 Ingress A/

Thank you very much. I'm going to test it asap.

Results of my tests:

1) You don't need to define an ingress point before initiating an attack.

2) For me, only attack targets (F2) & attack targets group (F4) commands are operational.

3) Before giving an order, check the shkval is not locked on a target.

4) SAM are treated first by the wingmen.

Thanks for your guide! :thumbup:

This sort of info is always useful, thanks for taking the time to draw it up.

Results of my tests:

 

1) You don't need to define an ingress point before initiating an attack.

2) For me, only attack targets (F2) & attack targets group (F4) commands are operational.

3) Before giving an order, check the shkval is not locked on a target.

4) SAM are treated first by the wingmen.

1 - It's just a setup ;) setting a ingress point could save your mission, via some kind of "tactic". Being all packed will be deadly if a new SAM pops (scripting engine :D ).

2 - The few times my Wingmen did not engaged (said : yes boss, then returned) were when my datalink targets were wrong. (example : "other" DTL point on a vehicle)

3 - Sure ! it's in the manual :book:

4 - Yes, that removes a lot of tactic unfortunately. But it was not present in 1.1.1.1.

As requested by codename in PM, i will supply this post with my mission and my track in a few days. (hope i answered you about the bug too (2))

And of course, thank you all :)

Again, thank you NateIRL and THANK YOU, little unknown dev responsible of this beautiful upgrade in 1.2.4+ :wub:

My Datalink guide has gone V2, and is fully functionning.

Nice work, thank you :thumbup:

Me gusta! Thank you and awesome job!

Again, thank you NateIRL and THANK YOU, little unknown dev responsible of this beautiful upgrade in 1.2.4+ :wub:

 

My Datalink guide has gone V2, and is fully functionning.

Please let me know for further updates and / or other tutorials, so that I can add this to the wiki, as this is a quite useful tutorial.

Question: Is this for SP only or will it work in MP as same?

EDIT:

added this Tutorial to the KA-50 Wiki / Tutorial Collection / Aircraft systems --> link

You're welcome, i'm very pleased to see this working too.

Memphis, it should work in MP as long as you have an A.I.

We know Humans never respect orders anyway. ;)

thanks for the Wiki addition.

I'll make more test today with deadlier sams to see what's happens.

There you go. I've added illustration of Lesson 2.

AI now wants to fight in a safe zone. You have to force him to fight in the danger zone.

=> How to engage medium range SAM like Chaparral / Roland.

I'll try S300/Patriot, but i'm not sure to like results.

Hi Erforce

Regarding the 'Ingress Point Tricks' are you saying we should send our wingman to an Ingress Point THEN give him a target once he is there and hovering. I didn't really understand your point b)

Glen

Yes, exactly that.

if your wingman has one ingress point and one target point, and you want him to wait at ingress point, (any reason, wait SAM to be killed, far ingress point, etc..) he'll pick the wrong datalink point and take his target point for an ingress point.

Edit : as promised, i've added the Patriot / S300. As these SAM are deadly, your best chance is to go there on your own. Check Lesson 3.

This is a seriously needed tutorial.

I have had very little luck with AI Wingmen attacking targets (especially target groups). I always get the "Unable" response, which is really annoying that they ignore my Orders !!

Obviously, I have not been giving the correct orders .... in the correct order !!!!!

I can see this will take a bit of practice to understand, but hopefully it will sink in sooner rather than later.

Thanks for this invaluable information/tutorial.

This is a seriously needed tutorial.

I have had very little luck with AI Wingmen attacking targets (especially target groups). I always get the "Unable" response, which is really annoying that they ignore my Orders !!

Obviously, I have not been giving the correct orders .... in the correct order !!!!!

 

I can see this will take a bit of practice to understand, but hopefully it will sink in sooner rather than later.

 

Thanks for this invaluable information/tutorial.

Maybe it is just me, but the whole DL implementation in the Blackshark is a bit unintuitive (the system as such, not how it is modelled). I had ... have often a hard time to get my wingman do what I want as well. Often he replies with "Unable" because I have sent him crap. Why would he want to attack our home airbase? Why would he want to attack a tree?

The difficulty I often have is to determine and properly configure the source of the target point I am sending. I slew the Shkval and have the tank in the center, I send it to my wingman ... and fail to notice that the PVI is still active with the next waypoint... Now my wingman is of course confused as there is no tank at the next waypoint ....

tl;dr: understanding the priority of the sensors from which the target point is actually sent is cruical.

Obviously, I am very inexperienced at this point since I have only flown the BS for about 4 weeks total and 3.5 of those was with a faulty and worn-out HOTAS, in the hands of a hack. So this just might be a stupid question.

Q. Does the Size of the Tracking Gate in relation to the target have an effect regarding the accuracy of the information to the wingman via Data Link ?

For example, rather than having the tracking gate basically just encompassing the tank body, what about with the tracking gate zoomed in to a point (respectively) on the tank.

Does this have an effect on given orders ? I'm guessing it can .... I'm just curious if it definitely does !

Nice information, very useful for my singe player missions

Not just you Flagrum. unfortunately, i realized DCS product are in favor of multiplayersession. Not single one with AI.

bringing AI wingmen with you serves best in carrying extra vikhrs. (and detecting threats). but they're not smart at all.

SnowTiger, in my humble opinion, the tracking gate doesn't matter.

it's just a location, somewhere in a 2D world. that's why they can engage the wrong target sometime when using datalink targets.

you should take it like : a point, center of the circle where every units detected is suject to death, as long as the AI is smart enough to detect the target himself.

my X52Pro is out for some time, i'll glady take a look around, seeing if 1.2.8+ hasn't changed things again.

Thanks you all !

Edit : testing atm. some behaviorq changed, need to update the guide (a litlle)

Hi again Erforce

I have recently re-embarked on this Ka-50 journey and still trying to understand the detailed information you have provided.

I am curious to know if you know whether this information still holds true in DCS 1.5 Open Beta or even v2 Open Alpha ?

Hi Snow ! i don't remember any change in ED Logs about AI logic since my v2.

I played Republic campaign but there aren't any wingman in those missions. I reread my bug thread to tests some things out with no particular change (naval war, heat blow, audio files, you know....) and just before DCS 2.0 release i think i've replayed this tutorial too, but i'm not 100% sure because i don't remember any change in AI behavior.

I think i had once hard time sending/receiving datalink to my fellow member, more like a small bug than a feature in 1.5 beta, apart that, they ripped tanks pretty easily, and i played this as usual in a foolish rambo-style tester, ramming, drifting, rolling, "you can't hit me @ 375km/h" etc..

But nothing new i'm afraid. ie : they rules on flat ground, they sucks in mountainous areas.

As i am on a temporary junk-fest trial test win10 install, i won't reinstall DCS until maybe up to a couple of months, thanks to starforce limited activation.

you still can download the mission and test yourself, it's easy and won't take more than 15mn of your time., especially for lesson 2/A, the worse point.

Note : i'm sure i havn't tested in nevada, as i only experienced the chase-car scenario in vegas, with some disapointments (dust on every road, or road track not respected)

have fun !

Thanks for the reply friend.

I will try the Tutorial (I didn't even notice that there before !!).

The information and images you have provided in this thread is the most valuable of all the Ka-50 threads IMO.

Thanks again.

Hi.

Very nice tutorial, easy to understand everything :)

But I tested it in Georgian Oil War mission A3.4

Wingman ignores my commands, I.E. I did everything like in your tutorial, he affirmes my command (Target by type, i wanted to destroy by him one T72 tank),he starts going low and hover, doesn't want to engage the target :doh:

Is there possibility that many IR threats in this mission making him impossible to engage this tank or maybe this is caused by mountaing terrain???

EDIT:

For me better for wingman than Datalink is "Engage my target" Works like a charm. Few AI safe approaches and engaging with Vikhr succesfully destroying target. I'm ending with that useless monkey AI datalink.