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Vulkan API Discussion


snowsniper

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Over in the VR part of the forum I and other Pimax 5k+ owners discuss it's performance. It seems to me that owners of 2080ti cards only get a marginal benefit over my 1080. What I expect from Vulkan is to leave a large margin in how these cards perform, as more of the physics calculations are handled by the GPU.

 

So, even if I expect better performance on my 1080, the major benefit will be in making the upgrade actually worth while.

 

It is really where DCS fails to make use of the latest GPU's, it shows where it falls behind the curve.

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The right answer is, "we don't know", so it's pointless predicting frame rate improvements.

Clearly some games have had little benefit, whilst others, e.g. FS2 experienced a major improvement.

 

On a positive note, I'm conscious that recently, we've seen a number of aircraft/aircraft components missing textures (e.g. the KC135, Huey gun mounts, RB15 missile). That implies to me that ED are working through the required re-texturing that Vulkan needs to have happen, which is great news.

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Amusing how many people seem to think Vulkan is a holy grail that will magically double fps or some nonsense. It will help, and remove some bottlenecks. You are not going to go from 30 to 90fps if you're running a potato.

 

I'm reminded of the timeframe before Arma 3 went to 64-bit. People, despite the devs warning otherwise, expected miracles. When it finally dropped, it unsurprisingly STABILISED fps somewhat and certainly helped with scene loading, etc, but I don't recall anybody getting any BOOST.

 

There is no magic button that solves performance issues for an inherently demanding application. At the end of the day, those numbers still have to get crunched, regardless of what API you're using. Doubtless we will have a tide of ill mannered ranting and implied incompetency when somebody's six year old rig still struggles to pump out a useful framerate @@

 

Wait, Vulkan isn't going to give me a locked 90 FPS in VR??! :mad:

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Foveated rendering is...Even in our current ~50° scuba mask headsets there's a huge potential performance benefit to foveated rendering.

I hope it will come soon. There's only one thing I wonder, it's a stupid question, but what happens if you blink your eyelids?

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Amusing how many people seem to think Vulkan is a holy grail that will magically double fps or some nonsense. It will help, and remove some bottlenecks. You are not going to go from 30 to 90fps if you're running a potato.

I'm reminded of the timeframe before Arma 3 went to 64-bit. People, despite the devs warning otherwise, expected miracles. When it finally dropped, it unsurprisingly STABILISED fps somewhat and certainly helped with scene loading, etc, but I don't recall anybody getting any BOOST.

There is no magic button that solves performance..

 

 

64 bit is nothing with vulkan, from the current banchmark shows that if this API is integrated well doubles the performance compared to the other (not dx12), so I expect Vulkan or dx12 to change things seriously.

 

 

btw: DirectX12 seems to provide similar bonus to framerates, cause it uses similar innovations.

But we don't have DX12 yet with DCS. I know.

Vulkan (or DX12) + DLSS + Adaptive Shading + ...

And there is a good chance that, at that time when all of this is in DCS, a RTX 2180 (not 2080!) is available that gives me another +60% fps. ;)

I was wondering why Vulkan and not DX12?

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I hope it will come soon. There's only one thing I wonder, it's a stupid question, but what happens if you blink your eyelids?

It looks like the first consumer (prosumer?) headset with foveated rendering will be the Vive Pro 'Eye', or whatever they're calling it, expected at some point this year.

The good news is that testers of R&D and proof-of-concept (non Vive Pro Eye) iterations of foveated rendering report performance increases of 40-70% with no perceptible loss in image quality (because you physiologically can't notice the loss). If it's able to track saccadic eye movements with extremely low latency (which it has to to be functional) then blinking shouldn't be a problem at all.

The bad news, as far as we're concerned, is that foveated rendering may be on game developers to support. I have the impression that ED sees VR as the future so hopefully they won't drag their feet in implementing that support.


Edited by SonofEil

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It looks like the first consumer (prosumer?) headset with foveated rendering will be the Vive Pro 'Eye', or whatever they're calling it, expected at some point this year.

The good news is that testers of R&D and proof-of-concept (non Vive Pro Eye) iterations of foveated rendering report performance increases of 40-70% with no perceptible loss in image quality (because you physiologically can't notice the loss). If it's able to track saccadic eye movements with extremely low latency (which it has to to be functional) then blinking shouldn't be a problem at all.

The bad news, as far as we're concerned, is that foveated rendering may be on game developers to support. I have the impression that ED sees VR as the future so hopefully they won't drag their feet in implementing that support.

 

 

Wearing glasses might be a problem if reflection from eyeglass lens?

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Also because DX12 locks out a huge player base that isn't on Windows 10.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

 

By the time Vulkan is a reality, Win7 will be end of life. So anyone on Win7 is on their own. So I don't think it'll be a deciding factor. SkateZilla had a post that gave the pros and cons of DX12 vs Vulkan once. Shouldn't be too hard to find for those interested.

hsb

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I don't remember exactly.

 

Try using Google:

 

site:forums.eagle.ru skatezilla vulkan dx12

hsb

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So does this mean that ED is NOT going to use Vulcan? If not are they working on a new engine that is more modern? Needing 32 gigs of ram in any situation is ridiculous for a game.

 

They are already on it. Using Vulkan that is.

hsb

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So does this mean that ED is NOT going to use Vulcan? If not are they working on a new engine that is more modern? Needing 32 gigs of ram in any situation is ridiculous for a game.

 

The ram usage is a by product of mission size, map size, and assets. All of which have nothing to do with the API. Lowering your pre-load radius will reduce memory usage though.

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So does this mean that ED is NOT going to use Vulcan? If not are they working on a new engine that is more modern? Needing 32 gigs of ram in any situation is ridiculous for a game.

 

Ram is one of the cheapest components to upgrade on any system. IF it would help DCS run faster I'd happily go buy a system with 64 or 128gb of ram.

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It looks like the first consumer (prosumer?) headset with foveated rendering will be the Vive Pro 'Eye', or whatever they're calling it, expected at some point this year.

The good news is that testers of R&D and proof-of-concept (non Vive Pro Eye) iterations of foveated rendering report performance increases of 40-70% with no perceptible loss in image quality (because you physiologically can't notice the loss). If it's able to track saccadic eye movements with extremely low latency (which it has to to be functional) then blinking shouldn't be a problem at all.

The bad news, as far as we're concerned, is that foveated rendering may be on game developers to support. I have the impression that ED sees VR as the future so hopefully they won't drag their feet in implementing that support.

 

While I'd love to see it I'm really holding my breath on Foveated rendering in general I think its way too much on the hype-train at this point. I think with the vive eye you might see some gimicky stuff like IRL eye positioning when interacting with other players, or using your eyes to select menu items. DCS support for foveated rendering is at least a few years out IMO.

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While I'd love to see it I'm really holding my breath on Foveated rendering in general I think its way too much on the hype-train at this point. I think with the vive eye you might see some gimicky stuff like IRL eye positioning when interacting with other players, or using your eyes to select menu items. DCS support for foveated rendering is at least a few years out IMO.

 

Actually like most things VR, and especially rendering options, it should be wrapped up in the VR API/SDK. That should reduce the steps/time a developer would need to implement such a feature.

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Actually like most things VR, and especially rendering options, it should be wrapped up in the VR API/SDK. That should reduce the steps/time a developer would need to implement such a feature.

 

Thats the part i dont see happening fast. Plus the bigger issue with foveated rendering is that you need even faster render times, yoir eyes move alot faster than your head...

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Fovated rendering will be soon but the problems are others:

Lens quality; sweet spot, not plastic, with chromatic aberration filter.

Screens; high number of ppi, not necessarily a high resolution, oled or type those for not having light halos.

Fov; just help with realism.

 

 

The only thing that really interests me is that they take away the chromatic aberration, as long as they wear cheap lenses at the price of 500/900 bucks, I will not buy anything.

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Fovated rendering will be soon but the problems are others:

Lens quality; sweet spot, not plastic, with chromatic aberration filter.

Screens; high number of ppi, not necessarily a high resolution, oled or type those for not having light halos.

Fov; just help with realism.

 

 

The only thing that really interests me is that they take away the chromatic aberration, as long as they wear cheap lenses at the price of 500/900 bucks, I will not buy anything.

 

Well, lets hope I'm wrong on the foveated rendering thing, but I don't think I am, I don't think its a "simple" problem to solve technically speaking.

 

I absolutely agree with you that optical design of most headsets could be better, but again as you point out at what price point. I'm sure a pro-headset like the Xtal has good optics. But it also costs 3-5k. Hopefully there gets to be some market choice, but the market today is pretty small.

 

I think for flight sim-VR which is even a smaller market, and very specific one, the best we can hope for is headsets with much higher PPD, and hopefully the new Vive Cosmos (speculated 2160x2160 per eye) with an FOV similar to the current vive, could be the commercial set that pushes PPD into the 20's. Of course that means you have push 4x many pixels per eye compared to the Rift, so that may be a deal breaker for the current state of DCS (hopefully fixed by Vulkan).

 

I think once headsets can get PPD into the 30's with a ~100deg FOV and usable frame-rates I think most flight simmers will be happy and then will push for a wider FOV.

 

Unfortunately I see mainstream VR going the other way, for them the current PPD seems good enough and the focus for many is better FOV for more "presence" and raising the bar hardware wise means fewer customers.

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