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Valve Index Hands On


aileron

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Hmm, nothing shows up there for me. I only have the ‘reservation confirmed’ email from weeks ago. Nothing shows in my account at all relating to the Index.

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I only dislike how MSAA affects performance. It's also a supersampling technique. I'm pretty sure there is a sweetspot to find for having MSAA enabled with a slightly lowered SS faktor, but you have to find this for every panel type. The bad thing in DCS is that MSAA makes spotting of enemies at critical distances worse the more you turn it up.

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I'm with AA on this. For me, MSAA x2 is an essential for any DCS scenario. I always start with that and vary everything else to suit.

The thing is, MSAA is needed for terrain, and PD/SS is needed for cockpit clarity. It's all a big balancing act!

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I only dislike how MSAA affects performance. It's also a supersampling technique. I'm pretty sure there is a sweetspot to find for having MSAA enabled with a slightly lowered SS faktor, but you have to find this for every panel type. The bad thing in DCS is that MSAA makes spotting of enemies at critical distances worse the more you turn it up.

 

Hmm... and this is the point and the problem with MSAA. It would be nice if game developers worked on the MSAA to include a tag or something that instructed the MSAA algorithm to prevent anti aliasing on the dot.

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Someone's made a gif comparing the rendered Index FOV with the OG Vive:

 

https://m.imgur.com/J0KzdM8

 

Index is the one with a gap in the middle, as you can see its basically the same (Index is a bit worse off for vertical FOV, but horizontal is basically the same). Obviously you'll be able to see much more of it in the Index than you can in the Vive (unless you're one of the people that replaced the face mask to get closer to the lens).

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I usually use a shooting range mission with the Ka-50 to measure the distance when units start to pop up for my eyes (with and without VR zoom). I hover at something like 10.5km away from the target and then i start moving very slow towards it. The laser always gives me the actual distance. I only remember that i'm able to see a truck (already pretty small) to slowly pop up as a small blurry splotch within 9.5 to 10km while using VR zoom. With my bare eyes i need to go 500m more towards the target to be able to finally see a dark pixel, something between 9 and 9.5km. I guess i'll have to test this again, with all types of units to have more valuable data.

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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@backspace

 

here is the full post, the 2 links you posted are a bit misleading:

 

 

The important points are the marked visible areas. With the oldgen HMD's there is always more rendered than you can see with your eyes, even if pressed as near against the lenses as possible. The index opens this up, depending on how your face is shaped you may be able to see everything up to the outer edges.

 

https://i.redd.it/7vpxoy4869531.jpg

 

(Index area is the red line, bright areas are visible when looking straight through a Vive, mid bright areas get added if foam is removed, etc.)

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@backspace

 

here is the full post, the 2 links you posted are a bit misleading:

 

 

The important points are the marked visible areas. With the oldgen HMD's there is always more rendered than you can see with your eyes, even if pressed as near against the lenses as possible. The index opens this up, depending on how your face is shaped you may be able to see everything up to the outer edges.

 

https://i.redd.it/7vpxoy4869531.jpg

 

(Index area is the red line, bright areas are visible when looking straight through a Vive, mid bright areas get added if foam is removed, etc.)

 

I don't think I was misleading - as I said that's the rendered FOV and the visible FOV is different. Up till now people have been claiming the Index is a 130 degree FOV headset but it's now clear that's wrong, it's a 110 degree headset with no extra FOV from the game rendered over the Vive. For me that's actually a plus - it means it has better PPD than the Rift S and it should be no more taxing to run than my Odyssey as its the same resolution and rendered FOV.

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It might be misleading for some people just looking at the bare headset mirror pics. You are right, screen usage is much better on the index and will deliver benefits. I made this https://ibb.co/HYR81vj to show ppd and screen usage a bit better.

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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After reading this thread alot, I just reserved an Index. Easy since there's no obligation and expected availability is 30th of september. :)

 

It was a careful consideration, choose the Index since I like to use VR during the night so tracking won't be an issue with the Lighthouses.

 

Can't wait. After the Rift this will be a nice upgrade. Just hoping my GTX1080 will do the trick (I think it will considering my system is used solely for VR and I get phenomenal performance if I compare mine with some of the posts on the Eagle forum with better GPUs. No additional apps other than the absolute necessary ones, and really optimized and tuned Windows 10 for performance). And otherwise, oh well. ;)


Edited by dawgie79
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I did test spotting visibility again in the Ka-50, bad news is that i lost nearly 1km of range due to MSAA. :( I disabled it again.

Another thing, i just found the perfect SS settings in SteamVR to reach the perfect value for the Vive Pro and the Index ->2880x3200 per eye.

 

SteamVR-Video-custom resolution to 148% (2452x2724)

SteamVR-Applications-DCS.exe 138% (2880x3200)

PD setting in DCS is 1.0

 

 

It matches exactly the double horizontal and vertical resolution, 4 pixels will be downsampled to 1.


Edited by Alec Delorean

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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I did test spotting visibility again in the Ka-50, bad news is that i lost nearly 1km of range due to MSAA. :( I disabled it again.

Another thing, i just found the perfect SS settings in SteamVR to reach the perfect value for the Vive Pro and the Index ->288x3200 per eye.

 

SteamVR-Video-custom resolution to 148% (2452x2724)

SteamVR-Applications-DCS.exe 138% (2880x3200)

PD setting in DCS is 1.0

 

 

It matches exactly the double horizontal and vertical resolution, 4 pixels will be downsampled to 1.

I like your maths!

Still, I personally can't see any difference compared to my global value of 204% (2876x3196) either in clarity or fps.

The other thing is that whenever the global res is changed, it means having to go through and change all other apps as well. No big deal, I know, but...

A question for you. How do you get DCS to remain in the application list after quitting SteamVR? Are you running the Steam version?

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@imacken

 

 

SteamVR says that 150% is the recommended value for my system specs, so 148% doesn't change that much on my end ;)

I have to let DCS.exe to stay open, make the adjustments for SS in SteamVR and after that i restart DCS to apply the changes...

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@imacken

 

 

SteamVR says that 150% is the recommended value for my system specs, so 148% doesn't change that much on my end ;)

I have to let DCS.exe to stay open, make the adjustments for SS in SteamVR and after that i restart DCS to apply the changes...

 

Mine says recommended 150% as well, but I set to 204%. 150% isn’t enough, and I can’t be bothered to change every app setting. I stick to a Global and experiment with the value.

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

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Well, i like the flexiblity of SteamVR on that matter, having a 2. stage SS setting makes it easier to set SS for the other games (the demanding ones and the not so demanding ones) B)

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Well, i like the flexiblity of SteamVR on that matter, having a 2. stage SS setting makes it easier to set SS for the other games (the demanding ones and the not so demanding ones) B)

 

Fair enough. I find that almost all games have their own in-game SS setting, which I personally find easier to manage than 2 Steam VR settings.

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I was just browsing the Index page on Steam - £37 for an additional "Face Gasket"!

 

Available from 31st July.

 

In fact, I've just seen on the www site that this is for two of them - that's more like it! :D

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1072820/Face_Gasket_for_Valve_Index_Headset__2_Pack/

 

edit: btw, I also read that the normal 30 day returns policy for Steam hardware is reduced to 14 days for the Index. That's long enough for a thorough test.

 

FYI valve isn't trying to gouge people, I think the hard frame magnetic design and materials used just add up. The hook & loop replacements with decent materials for other headsets are $30. Fortunately just like they do with open sourcing everything, valve is releasing the CAD files for the gasket to allow aftermarket designs like vrcover (which, if you've not tried, completely changes my opinion of my O+), to the full custom ones you can get at tradeshow and such where they scan your head/face and print you one. I haven't had the pleasure of trying one, but a lot of people swear by them.

 

*Edit- for anyone who hasn't seen, yesterday they did a deep dive re FOV on Index website, some good info, explains edge clarity and should dispel the conspiracy theories on why they wouldn't publish a FOV number. Also, stay tuned as it looks like we will get a couple more before release. Inter esting to see their design decisions explained d in such Detail:

https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/deep-dive/fov


Edited by sk000tch

just a dude who probably doesn't know what he's talking about

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I think it's a perfectly reasonable price for two facepads. I've had my Rift since June 2016 and have always used aftermarket interfaces and covers/facepads. The prices are pretty similar across the board in my experience. The ones I've used, from VR Cover/Lens Labs, have been excellent - even if their first cover products were a bit of a let down, which lost them many sales due to gaining a poor rep.

Always bad news when you are just starting a business venture, even if the later products are outstanding, such a thing can be hard to recover from.

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First shipments are starting to get sent out, should have some feedback from DCS users next week.

 

Looks like valve is having Fedex schedule all shipments for arrival on the 28th, so if you live close to where its getting sent from you get sent yours last.


Edited by Vullcan
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FOV measurement compared to other headsets.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Mine just shipped, got a tracking number today and is on track for Fri delivery. Unfortunately, I'm working full-time this weekend lol, damn.

 

Seems like color gamut, luminance and black level are superior to the Rift S but still not as good as the Vive/Pro. I'll have to see how well it does in real world use, subjectively. Planning to put mine through various torture testings next week.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Mine arrived today, did some quick testing vs my previous set (original Vive).

 

Readability is much better, SDE is no longer noticeable, FoV doesn’t seem this big jump probably because I was expecting too much, sound is superb, confort is much better.

 

What I was not expecting is a big improvement in colors, which seems to me quite more vivid vs the OG Vive. And even black seems better that the grey noise I was getting with the OG Vive. Bah.

 

At PD of 1.3 (in game) DCS seems a new game. Will provide further results if I am able to use it a bit more (here in northern Italy is quite hot now... using a headset is not really a nice experience at the moment...).

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Mine arrived today, did some quick testing vs my previous set (original Vive).

 

Readability is much better, SDE is no longer noticeable, FoV doesn’t seem this big jump probably because I was expecting too much, sound is superb, confort is much better.

 

What I was not expecting is a big improvement in colors, which seems to me quite more vivid vs the OG Vive. And even black seems better that the grey noise I was getting with the OG Vive. Bah.

 

At PD of 1.3 (in game) DCS seems a new game. Will provide further results if I am able to use it a bit more (here in northern Italy is quite hot now... using a headset is not really a nice experience at the moment...).

 

That's great! Stay cool. 8)

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