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F-117


twistking

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I believe the beauty of DCS is that it’s still in its infancy

 

A-10c is 9 years old, I can't call it "infant", considering it's a piece of software (in 2008, when a-10c was published in EA, we've had windows vista…)

 

majority of the planes we have if not all aren’t 100% complete… even other study level sims aren’t 100% It’s just the fact that other modules have made compromises too.

 

It is what I've said: I can accept compromises, they are obvious since this is a game and not a military simulation to train real pilots. But what I like is that ED has a threshold of fidelity for what they accept to develop as a DCS product, and they also ask 3rd party devs to conform to this threshold, at least for what full fidelity modules is concerned. Then we have FC3, which is lower fidelity but the few simulated systems are quite accurate anyway. If ED or a 3rd party can simulate an f-117 within this threshold, or at least as a FC3 module, I'm ok with it. But I think the appropriate documentation needed to do this is not so easily accessible, and there are a lot of interesting planes for which an accurate documentation can be available (panavia tornado, century series fighters, f-111, f-8, a-6 and so on). So I can't say I do not want an f-117, simply I believe there are a lot of more interesting potential modules easier to develop, both as full fidelity and/or FC3.

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A-10c is 9 years old, I can't call it "infant", considering it's a piece of software (in 2008, when a-10c was published in EA, we've had windows vista…)

 

By infancy I implied that the sim still has room to grow, we just got the F18,yak52, and plenty more aircraft still on the way. I completely agree with your bottom statements, I don't want a half assed plane just because I like the aircraft, if it isn't to the threshold ED has set then I have no problem with it not being made. But if their is enough data, information that we can make the module and have it function very close what it should, then I say why not? I too don't want a simplistic incomplete version of the aircraft.

I was inverted B)

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This has been at the top of my personal wishlist for a long time. Seeing as how we'd likely never see a B-2 in the game the F-117 is the next best thing in my opinion, in terms of a stealth air to ground platform. I think it's far more capable than some people are giving it credit for, only being able to drop bombs might sound boring to some of you but you have to realize there are some of us who find air to air combat just as uninteresting. The real arguments against this module is the fact that the aerodynamics and stealth characteristics aren't readily available, these are without a doubt the defining features of the jet so making a module without this info would be either difficult to accurately make or massively disappointing as they'd just be giving us their best guess.

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There are so many interesting aircraft, albeit with a limited available public information. I too think its a pitty to limit our experience to pre/cold war era tech only. In my view we have the professional/higher fidelity modules, and them FC to supply with more generic, but still well modeled aircraft. The F-117, Rafales, Eurofighters, etc, would all be welcomed in this category. For those concerned with balancing issues, just restrict servers and missions to the models desired. All old school games like janes, atf, lightning, f19, etc had these almost fictional aircrafts, and they were all fun.

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  • 2 months later...

I recently completed a school research project on the 1999 shoot down incident (with some incredible sources). With that in mind, I am 110% certain that an F-117 module will not happen anytime soon. Despite the aircraft being retired in 2008 and the fact you can buy the manual online for the airplane...the technology that it carries and its capabilities is still super classified. The lessons learned from using the aircraft and its only shootdown are paving the way for advanced next-generation technologies, aircraft, and defense projects. Rumors and speculations suggest that even though they were put in flyable storage condition and only recently finally set to be "demilitarized" and scrapped, they are probably still being used as test beds for emerging advanced technologies.

 

P.S I know it's an amazing and cool aircraft...but why would you want a plane that can only carry two bombs and can't outmaneuver an opponent if it gets in a sticky situation?

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Those are not rumors, they ARE being used as test beds/trainers.

 

 

And the thing learned from the shoot-down is 'don't fly too close to the SAMs' or, more to the point 'when you don't know where the SAMs are, you might drive right into one'.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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I recently completed a school research project on the 1999 shoot down incident (with some incredible sources). With that in mind, I am 110% certain that an F-117 module will not happen anytime soon. Despite the aircraft being retired in 2008 and the fact you can buy the manual online for the airplane...the technology that it carries and its capabilities is still super classified. The lessons learned from using the aircraft and its only shootdown are paving the way for advanced next-generation technologies, aircraft, and defense projects. Rumors and speculations suggest that even though they were put in flyable storage condition and only recently finally set to be "demilitarized" and scrapped, they are probably still being used as test beds for emerging advanced technologies.

 

P.S I know it's an amazing and cool aircraft...but why would you want a plane that can only carry two bombs and can't outmaneuver an opponent if it gets in a sticky situation?

 

Good point. By the way there have been very recent footage (two months old or so) of F-117 still flying near Tonopah. Proof that they are indeed still flown for testing stuff.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I recently completed a school research project on the 1999 shoot down incident (with some incredible sources). With that in mind, I am 110% certain that an F-117 module will not happen anytime soon. Despite the aircraft being retired in 2008 and the fact you can buy the manual online for the airplane...the technology that it carries and its capabilities is still super classified. The lessons learned from using the aircraft and its only shootdown are paving the way for advanced next-generation technologies, aircraft, and defense projects. Rumors and speculations suggest that even though they were put in flyable storage condition and only recently finally set to be "demilitarized" and scrapped, they are probably still being used as test beds for emerging advanced technologies.

 

P.S I know it's an amazing and cool aircraft...but why would you want a plane that can only carry two bombs and can't outmaneuver an opponent if it gets in a sticky situation?

 

I disagree.

 

Like there far less official information on the f35. Yet from bits of pieces of information there is s believable ( from perspective of a civilian) aproximation/ simulation of an f35a for another sim. Especially if compared to the public demo of the f35 lockheed sim

 

 

 

So it would be very possible for ed or 3rd party to make a f117 for if they really wanted too

 

Like ecm on current planes the stealth capabilities offering lower radar cross section can simply gue estimated and applied to simply be harder to pick up on radar and at closer distances than you normally would pick up a standard fighter.

 

Itl basically just like trying to sear h out for s smaller object from te radars perspective.

 

 

From operational point of view it seems there's enough information to simulate basic operations procedures and weapons employment and to create a Flight model.

 

Like honestly the only reason to not develop this aircraft is more of a nicheroleA tactical bomber. Youd fly in drop a couple gbu12s and rub because that's the most you can carry.

 

Cant really fend for itself if a fighter manages to intercept it as it has no guns or a2a missiles of its own.

 

It remains entirely reliant on not being spotted on radar.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Those are not rumors, they ARE being used as test beds/trainers.

 

 

And the thing learned from the shoot-down is 'don't fly too close to the SAMs' or, more to the point 'when you don't know where the SAMs are, you might drive right into one'.

 

My research paper identified (with all public information) that there were a number of problems, most dealing with really bad NATO tactics...but you're right about the SAMs. F-117's reportedly flew the same routes which put them in a very bad position.

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It's one of the most iconic planes ever will be a challenge in regards of precise execution of flight and attack plans during night ops. I really hope ED or HB will eventually take a look at the Nighthawk.

 

 

I would love to see some dedicated bombers and until multicrew AI is fully fleshed out - e.g. for a B-1B or a B-52H - it would be a blast

Main Module: AH-64D

Personal Wishlist: HH-60G, F-117A, B-52H

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Yes, they flew the same routes and the routes were known by parties that probably did not need to know them. The complacency stemmed from the fact that NATO demanded to know the routes, so they wouldn't be changed for convenience sake. After the shoot-down, the USAF started changing the routes.

 

To make a point, the F-117's flew a LOT of sorties, and even with the same (and known) routes, only two were hit. I don't know about the other case, but the well known one still required the F-117 to fly close enough to the SAM where its stealth would not hide it.

 

My research paper identified (with all public information) that there were a number of problems, most dealing with really bad NATO tactics...but you're right about the SAMs. F-117's reportedly flew the same routes which put them in a very bad position.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Those are not rumors, they ARE being used as test beds/trainers.

 

 

And the thing learned from the shoot-down is 'don't fly too close to the SAMs' or, more to the point 'when you don't know where the SAMs are, you might drive right into one'.

 

Nah the main thing "learned" was that "stealth" isn't stealthy at all frequencies. And not to fly the same stupid flight path night after night. There was just a boatload of fail from the mission planning standpoints as well as a ton of overconfidence in "stealth". Basically everyone on the NATO side shoulda known better.

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Nah, the main thing learned was not that - that different frequencies present a different RCS has been known 'forever'. The F-117 was detected by the SAM at the range it was expected to be detected - somewhere between 1/8 to 1/10 of the distance of some reference aircraft.

 

Nah the main thing "learned" was that "stealth" isn't stealthy at all frequencies. And not to fly the same stupid flight path night after night. There was just a boatload of fail from the mission planning standpoints as well as a ton of overconfidence in "stealth". Basically everyone on the NATO side shoulda known better.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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  • 1 year later...

I don't want to start an argument (again), how well the wobblin goblin would fit into dcs, but with improved integrated-air-defense-system simulation and improved EWR simulation on the roadmap, the F-117 got a lot more viable for sure.

Oh, and don't forget the improved night lighting so it could look even nicer, while being totally invisible...

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Oh, and don't forget the improved night lighting so it could look even nicer, while being totally invisible...

 

Until you point a modern IR sensor at it, and then it shows up like daylight again. Stealth is a bit more than just RCS, the IRST in some modern aircraft seems more capable than their radar...

 

Also, just as classified as two years ago.

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Until you point a modern IR sensor at it, and then it shows up like daylight again. Stealth is a bit more than just RCS, the IRST in some modern aircraft seems more capable than their radar...

 

Also, just as classified as two years ago.

 

 

Except that's irrelevant when there are no aircraft with ultra modern irst. In dcs.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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From what I have found in a quick research is that the F-117 has still being spotted flying around in Nevada. Because the Nighthawk is such a unique platform they offer a valuable opportunity to serve as an ideal test bed for a variety of projects, such as developing new radars or materials or testing new sensors. They can also be used as an aggressor squadron to train at detecting stealth aircraft . So I don't see them being fully retired and declassified anytime soon.

 

 

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/area51/i-team-f-117-nighthawks-still-being-spotted-in-the-skies-years-after-retirement/


Edited by Evoman
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From what I have found in a quick research is that the F-117 has still being spotted flying around in Nevada. Because the Nighthawk is such a unique platform they offer a valuable opportunity to serve as an ideal test bed for a variety of projects, such as developing new radars or materials or testing new sensors. They can also be used as an aggressor squadron to train at detecting stealth aircraft . So I don't see them being fully retired and declassified anytime soon.

 

 

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/area51/i-team-f-117-nighthawks-still-being-spotted-in-the-skies-years-after-retirement/

 

 

The f18c and f16c are still flying in operational service...... with some aspects that are still classified. Such aspects are estimated from open source data gathering, and could be for the f117, " stealth" aspect, assuming its feasible enough.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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It won't be able to hide from AWACS

 

Sure it will.

 

so will be seen by fighters via datalink and it won't be able to launch bombs from far away so it'll be just a tasty target for literally any semi-modern SAM. Interesting plane, no doubt. But not useful online

 

In any of those cases the fighters and SAMs have other things to deal with ... things that actually show up on THEIR sensors.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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F-117 is just a worse version of Su-25 because it can use only laser guided bombs and only 2 can be carried. It won't be able to hide from AWACS so will be seen by fighters via datalink and it won't be able to launch bombs from far away so it'll be just a tasty target for literally any semi-modern SAM. Interesting plane, no doubt. But not useful online

 

A) Not everyone plays arcade air quake. That shouldn't be used staple point game mode of whether an aircraft gets added or not.

 

B)

 

Besides substantially reduced RCS due to stealth design, the avionics/ sensor suite of the F117 is way more advanced than the Su25...... nor is it a close air support jet. Not even a remote close comparison between these two aircraft . Besides its worth noting Su25's bet it A or T model doesn't do laser bombing in DCS. Late in life the F117's were modded to have JDAM capability.

 

And no in a giant battle sams and enemy aircraft are going to be busy dealing with conventional observable aircraft, all on thier very own missions ( be it SEAD interdiction or CAP). Its not like the F117 is going to be the only aircraft flying in a given scenario. in the gulf war the F117's never got shot down, taking out strategic targets over well covered areas even within the opening nights of the war, when the SAM network had yet to be dismantled. Over Bosnia they only got shot down due to flying the exact same flight path, and finally flying directly over a sam site where it would have been expected to have been detected at such distance.

 

So no id say you still are under-appreciating the advantage of stealth even in pre gen 5 period of designs. The F117 ain't going to be a hopeless duck if employed like its supposed to. But i get it for the typical fighter jock in DCS anything that aint an actual fighter holds no appeal.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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