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Air to Air weapon effectiveness


MurderOne

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According to budget reports there is a long range AIM 120 replacement in the works just now.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-long-range-missile-project-emerges-in-us-budget-442816/

 

Interesting. I wonder how it will compare to the Meteor. The existing weapons bays on the F-22 and F-35 impose some design constraints, but I believe the meteor is designed to worth with them, or will at least work by luck since it was designed to snug into the underside cutouts on a Typhoon.

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AMRAAM benefits from significant propulsion and electronics upgrades which affect the very flying physics of the thing.

 

As for wiki ranges of missiles, whatever.

 

Imagine the capabilities of an upgraded missile the size of an AIM-54 though... the bigger body leaves a lot more room for fuel, and it can house a larger radar antenna.

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imagine the performance penalties associated with carrying missiles the size of aim-54s again...

 

Yeah they're pretty heavy, weighs about as much as three AIM-120s. Still nice to have the option though. Imagine a B-1R stuffed full of them. Airborne SAM site.

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Yeah they're pretty heavy, weighs about as much as three AIM-120s. Still nice to have the option though. Imagine a B-1R stuffed full of them. Airborne SAM site.

 

Well it seems as though the Chinese are pursuing a similar concept in their very KS172-esque VLRAAM. Ditto for the Russians with the R37.

 

Downside is that, as probad correctly pointed out, a 500-600kg missile is going to have fairly significant aerodynamic consequences for the launch platform as far as AAMs go. Not likely to be cheap either...

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Well it seems as though the Chinese are pursuing a similar concept in their very KS172-esque VLRAAM. Ditto for the Russians with the R37.

 

Downside is that, as probad correctly pointed out, a 500-600kg missile is going to have fairly significant aerodynamic consequences for the launch platform as far as AAMs go. Not likely to be cheap either...

 

Interesting, the Chinese VLRAAM is super long but the diameter is pretty much the same as an AIM-120 (at least it looks like it from the article I found), which would barely incur any aero penalty compared to something the shape of an AIM-54.

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I also doubt you could cut through jamming from that range.

 

True. That said the KS172 was never fully pursued by the Russians AFAIK. The very similar Chinese VLRAAM apparently has both an RF and IR seekerhead though. If it's directed at large lumbering ISR aircraft and tankers it may still be viable as a weapon used in an opportunistic fashion. Could also launch from a Flanker derivative and hand off guidance to a J20 that is closer to the target I suppose...

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Would also be a shame if such a large and expensive missile was shot down by a sidewinder before it got there.

 

It's moving pretty fast so acquiring and launching on it in time would be difficult for a human. I could see what amounts to a point defense system being created for HVTs like tankers and AWACS though.

 

That reminds me of a thought I had the other day... I assume the large missiles launched by the S-400 system are not stealthy at all and could be easily acquired by most airborne radar. Could they be downed by an AMRAAM?

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It's moving pretty fast so acquiring and launching on it in time would be difficult for a human. I could see what amounts to a point defense system being created for HVTs like tankers and AWACS though.

 

That reminds me of a thought I had the other day... I assume the large missiles launched by the S-400 system are not stealthy at all and could be easily acquired by most airborne radar. Could they be downed by an AMRAAM?

Not if they have IRST and HMCS.

 

Well the S-400 missiles are a lot faster but theoretically it's possible. However the stated speed of the KS-172 is Mach 4, so that's easily interceptable.

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Not if they have IRST and HMCS.

 

Well the S-400 missiles are a lot faster but theoretically it's possible. However the stated speed of the KS-172 is Mach 4, so that's easily interceptable.

 

I think this is the premise behind the MSDM - a hardkill defensive munition to be used alongside conventional softkill measures. That said I imagine an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure on this one - better to kill the launch platform with F35/22 before you have a Mach 5+, ~600kg problem to deal with.


Edited by Boogieman
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I think this is the premise behind the MSDM - a hardkill defensive munition to be used alongside conventional softkill measures. That said I imagine an ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure on this one - better to kill the launch platform with F35/22 before you have a Mach 5+, ~600kg problem to deal with.

No doubt, I think IRIS-T already claims anti-AAM capability and it isn't special among other NATO AAMs of the same class.

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