About those IRIS-T missiles...

It's pretty widely advertised that the IRIS-T is capable of "interception of opponents' missiles," as Diehl puts it. Is it pretty reliable in that role or is it more of a theoretical capability? On paper it sounds like Star Trek shields when coupled with the Praetorian DASS. Until you run out of missiles, anyway...

https://www.diehl.com/defence/en/products/guided-missiles/#iris-t

It's pretty widely advertised that the IRIS-T is capable of "interception of opponents' missiles," as Diehl puts it. Is it pretty reliable in that role or is it more of a theoretical capability? On paper it sounds like Star Trek shields when coupled with the Praetorian DASS. Until you run out of missiles, anyway...

 

 

https://www.diehl.com/defence/en/products/guided-missiles/#iris-t

I mean there is a Grim Reaper video (despite what you or others may think of them) which Cap shoots down SA-10 missiles and SA-6 missiles using (I want to say?) R-73s from a Sukoi or Mig? So the concept is in the game.

Plus you can shoot down cruise missiles with the AIM-54s and shoot down SCUD missiles in flight with AIM-120s before they reach max speed.

Hell in the F-14 I shot down my own AIM-9M by locking the second on onto it's smoke trail

So yes, it probably will have that ability but nothing about it is automatic so you will still need to see, identify and fire before it hits you....hell I'm willing to bet you could do it with an AIM-9X its just because its not known for this ability people don't try it.

It's pretty widely advertised that the IRIS-T is capable of "interception of opponents' missiles," as Diehl puts it. Is it pretty reliable in that role or is it more of a theoretical capability? On paper it sounds like Star Trek shields when coupled with the Praetorian DASS. Until you run out of missiles, anyway...

 

 

https://www.diehl.com/defence/en/products/guided-missiles/#iris-t

This is already possible in DCS with pretty much all of the modern missiles. I have seen it happening multiple times in multiplayer, that players defended themselves against incomming AMRAAMs by shooting them down with their Heatseekers.

The IRIS-T is a very advanced missile nonetheless. It has over the shoulder capability, meaning the Eurofighter pilot can use its RWR to lock on a bandit at his 6 o'clock and launch a missile at him.

Another interesting random little detail about the IRIS-T is, that the missile contains a data base with pictures of the most common adversary aircraft, taken from various angles. The missiles uses this database to aim for the most vulnerable parts of the aircraft, of which up to 8 of them are stored in that data base.

So yes, it probably will have that ability but nothing about it is automatic so you will still need to see, identify and fire before it hits you....

Why wouldn't it be automatic? Praetorian can see incoming missiles and presumably tell the WCS where to shoot.

Why wouldn't it be automatic? Praetorian can see incoming missiles and presumably tell the WCS where to shoot.

Because responsibility to employ weapons (and potentially kill someone) lies with the pilot.

Sure, the pilot has to pull the trigger. All I’m asking is if the Typhoon was designed to use the IRIS-T as a defense against incoming missiles.

Sure, the pilot has to pull the trigger. All I’m asking is if the Typhoon was designed to use the IRIS-T as a defense against incoming missiles.

Yes it is advertised as such, although i doubt its usefulness in a fight with Fox 2s, should be pretty good against larger missiles that are designed for bvr, ie s-300s, sa-6s r-33s etc.

although i assume the pilot has to target the missile manually and tell it to fire, especially since the thing carries like 300+ chaff for defeating missiles, and the plane can and will tell you to turn at a certain amount of g's inorder to defeat the missile.

it may have a use if you somehow go through your 320 chaff and there is another missile inbound or if there is a missile that is added that has no notch and nearly perfect countermeasure resistance

although i assume the pilot has to target the missile manually and tell it to fire, especially since the thing carries like 300+ chaff for defeating missiles,

And a towed decoy!

Here I am living in the analog world of the F-14 while the kids are raving about newfangled contraptions like towed decoys and computers that tell you how to defeat missiles lol.

Long story cut short there is no automatism to cue any heatseeker on an incoming threat missile. The DASS isn't used for targeting either. These are myths.

That's what I was looking for, thanks.

Long story cut short there is no automatism to cue any heatseeker on an incoming threat missile. The DASS isn't used for targeting either. These are myths.

How does the advertised over the shoulder capability of the IRIS-T work then?

I know it's probably not something that is used IRL or even trained to, but the IRIS-T is beeing advertised to have this capability, so I wonder how it would be employed?

How does the advertised over the shoulder capability of the IRIS-T work then?

 

I know it's probably not something that is used IRL or even trained to, but the IRIS-T is beeing advertised to have this capability, so I wonder how it would be employed?

so far there is really only one known method of over the shoulder capability that was reported

the french use a tactical data-link from their awacs or buddy aircraft and program the missile to turn around and search for the target that way (americans use data-link method too I believe)

i suspect that any helmet mounted site could look behind their aircraft and program the missile to look in that area for the target but i can not find a source on that.

DASS is a 360° RADAR, so why shouldn't that work?

How does the advertised over the shoulder capability of the IRIS-T work then?

 

I know it's probably not something that is used IRL or even trained to, but the IRIS-T is beeing advertised to have this capability, so I wonder how it would be employed?

There is a difference between potential capability of the missile and the platform carrying it. An over the shoulder capability is theoretically possible through LOAL. In theory it's possible to vector the missile using the HMS to produce angular coordinates and the missile uses it's IMU to vector towards the right direction the missile then acquires the target post launch. Of course it would be easier with a sensor capable of tracking the target in the rear hemisphere.

DASS is a 360° RADAR, so why shouldn't that work?

DASS is a suite of thrwat warning sensors and counter measures. The MAW is radar based, but not designed to target anything, but to detect and track threat missiles. The ESM isn't accurate enough to do so at this point.

There is a difference between potential capability of the missile and the platform carrying it. An over the shoulder capability is theoretically possible through LOAL. In theory it's possible to vector the missile using the HMS to produce angular coordinates and the missile uses it's IMU to vector towards the right direction the missile then acquires the target post launch. Of course it would be easier with a sensor capable of tracking the target in the rear hemisphere.

Ok, so the advertised ability of the DASS to point the missile to threat signals in the rear hemisphere does not actually exist?

Edit: The german wikipedia has the following to say about it. I know it's wikipedia, which is why I'm curious if this is actually true or not:

There was also a further development in the lock-on ability. Early weapons could only lock and track targets in a narrow area in front of the aircraft. With the introduction of the R-73, this changed: the pilot could use his helmet visor to target targets up to 45 ° away from the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. With modern weapons such as the Python-4, this area has been increased to 90 °, so targets next to the aircraft can also be activated and tracked. The latest models, such as the Python-5, also have the ability to lock-on targets after they have been launched (lock-on after launch). This means that opponents can also be fought that are more than 90 ° away when the pilot looks over his shoulder at the target and pulls the trigger. Alternatively, the target position can also be received via the MIDS. The weapon will then lock the target itself after turning. Sometimes the launch platform and the missile communicate via a data link in order to be able to follow the new course when the pilot moves his head, or they only follow the last movement vector of the target. Particularly manoeuvrable missiles can also hit targets close to and behind their own combat aircraft; this ability is referred to as full sphere capability. A novelty of the Eurofighter is the target assignment via the missile approach warner, which improves the visibility for the pilot and reduces blind spots.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIS-T

Well an advertisement comes from a manufacturer. You'll be hard pressed to find any official source stating that. Wiki includes a lot of relevant and correct information on such subjects, but also quite a lot of hoax. It's best to verify the origin of such claims, given that a source is given. There are unfortunately a lot of persistent myths like this one, which once established are hard to get corrected as they tend to pop up over and over agaim here and there.

It's best to verify the origin of such claims, given that a source is given.

That's exactly why I'm asking as it's not easy to find such information :)

The over the shoulder shot is made possible via. sensor fusion and datalink. DASS is for the most part a defensive sensor and CM suite.

The dass is not accurate enough to guide munitions to the target, except for maybe anti radiation missiles for sams since they do not move and can be triangulated

it also does not give an accurate enough info to have numbered for interception of missiles, it might have an internal threat factor but that is most likely only for the aircraft to know which threat should the pilot go defensive against since the doppler based MAW knows the time until impact.

in this pic the PA system is the map with targets via datalink for aircraft flying around and detected ground units. like the hornets SA page

(ed please no bully you can find this via google)

Why would you want to radar guide a missile with own IR seeker? You only need to have an rough direction to shoot. Than the missile seeker can aquire the target and the missile guides itself to the threat.

How is there 320 chaff spots. I mean I believe it, but it’s just crazy. Dare I say it’s almost aviation over kill when you also have PD MAWS and multiple decoys. But Jesus every time I see the 320 I wonder how long someone could fly around in circles just notching everything

How is there 320 chaff spots. I mean I believe it, but it’s just crazy. Dare I say it’s almost aviation over kill when you also have PD MAWS and multiple decoys. But Jesus every time I see the 320 I wonder how long someone could fly around in circles just notching everything

crazy the amount but it uses the bol and that thing is pretty long and filled with the chaff/flares

Why would you want to radar guide a missile with own IR seeker? You only need to have an rough direction to shoot. Than the missile seeker can aquire the target and the missile guides itself to the threat.

you dont need to per say but you want the seeker head to know where to look, imagine trying to get an a2a kill in a dogfight with basically a boresight missile only, sure the missile can uncage but its still looking directly ahead until it spots something. The Eurofighter has a helmet mounted display system but the missile would still be firing basically blind, seeker head fovs are also very narrow (i assume its probably something close to 5 degrees of view, probably even less) in order to avoid being blinded by the sun and other sources of heat that are not the target. for over the shoulder the only reason why you wouldn't need a data link to fire on that target for over the shoulder is for a possible Hail Mary to try and kill the target on your six but the missile would have a tough time finding let alone also still having enough energy and avoiding countermeasures.

That's just not true for the RL advanced IR missiles like modern versions of AIM-9X and IRIS-T (which uses a very similar seeker as the AIM-9X). They have Lock On After Launch Capabilities and can find an target off boresight.