AIM-120C Inaccurate?

They will use radar or EOS to lock on you.

Didn't I just said that? "They still can do that with EOS, don't they?" - and, yes, I meant locking with EOS.

Didn't I just said that? "They still can do that with EOS, don't they?" - and, yes, I meant locking with EOS.

His point at the time, though, was that in the past you could launch it without a lock of any sort (either radar or EOS) and still get a kill.

His point at the time, though, was that in the past you could launch it without a lock of any sort (either radar or EOS) and still get a kill.

Yeah, I get it, but my point was that Eagle drivers are still mad for those no-warning-heaters ;)

The range on both the AMRAAM and R-27ER are both highly inaccurate in DCS. Kinda hard for ED to get realistic info on either, but range should be much higher on both. DCS missile mod fixes it a lot but since it doesn't fix the trajectories that the missiles actually take, you won't be able to max perform either missile. Real life F-15Cs can "fox 3 short" on targets 2-3 times the range that DCS shows you max range on a non-maneuvering target, but the drag models on missiles in DCS just stop anything like that from happening.

Against experienced DCS pilots, you just do one shot of BVR to hopefully make the enemy maneuver and you go straight towards WVR, rather than the real life 2-3 leaves of launch and leave until you go BANZAI and launch and decide if it comes to that.

In public servers you'll still have success by shooting a few AMRAAMs in ~5 second intervals in a crank then flowing cold right away. Can try to go hot after that but there's a decent likelihood of getting shot down by someone you don't see. There's a lot of good DCS pilots who will sneak up on you through the mountains, which can make it fun.

Guns only in DCS is still the most fun

Is it just me or is the range of the AIM-120C on the F-15 highly inaccurate? Meaning the range is about half on this game than in real life.

 

For example if a Mig is heading straight for the F-15, the AIM-120C isn't ready to launch until about 15nm from the target. If the target is flying in another direction or running, then the launch range is about 10nm or even less.

 

According to the U.S. airforce and Raytheon, the AIM-120 has a range to about 20-30nm. That's well within an engagement range. But this game doesn't allow you to engage until the target is less than 20nm flying straight towards you.

 

Why is that? Is the game's missile range inaccurate? It's called a BVR (Beyond Visual Range) weapon, but this game almost waits till you can see the target before you can use the AIM-120C.

 

Would love any feedback on this.

No hard feelings but can I ask something ? How do u know how the 120C performs in real life? It has not seen much of real life air combat or has it?. Specifications are one thing and real life variables are another. I dont think any missile can hit its target beyong 20nm in real life. 20nm is a lot of distance. 36 Kms. Its way beyond visual range.

EDIT : In real life combat, only 18 missiles have been fired out of which 11 have hit their target which gives us a kill probability of 60%. I think that pretty much matches DCS.

No hard feelings but can I ask something ? How do u know how the 120C performs in real life? It has not seen much of real life air combat or has it?. Specifications are one thing and real life variables are another. I dont think any missile can hit its target beyong 20nm in real life. 20nm is a lot of distance. 36 Kms. Its way beyond visual range.

 

EDIT : In real life combat, only 18 missiles have been fired out of which 11 have hit their target which gives us a kill probability of 60%. I think that pretty much matches DCS.

There's tests done on these missiles at farther ranges with much higher PK. Combat is different, yes, and things will go down to make it a lower PK than an AMRAAM guided until terminal portion. The DCS ranges where AIM-120s are useless is laughable though. The drag and guidance is completely unrealistic, only guaranteed kill in DCS is guns but even that might not work because the lag is so bad in most servers because WE STILL DON'T HAVE DEDICATED SERVERS IN DCS.

Well there are so many variants of AIM-120C and it has been continuously improved... Hard to answer or criticize anything. Let's wait the F-18 and trust in DCS, I bet they will/do a lot of research on this.

There's tests done on these missiles at farther ranges with much higher PK. Combat is different, yes, and things will go down to make it a lower PK than an AMRAAM guided until terminal portion. The DCS ranges where AIM-120s are useless is laughable though. The drag and guidance is completely unrealistic, only guaranteed kill in DCS is guns but even that might not work because the lag is so bad in most servers because WE STILL DON'T HAVE DEDICATED SERVERS IN DCS.

No matter how many test they do, The only real test is in real combat. When you are facing a real fighter jet and not a remote control drone flying straight and level.

That's incorrect. Those drones are flown with realistic threat maneuvers and realistic threat ECM/CM. The tests are not 'easy mode'.

Also, the 0.59 Pk from RL does NOT match DCS. It's more like 0.3 in DCS, and further, that 0.59 figure doesn't account for the reasons of all misses - including intentional shooting out of parameters or doubled-up missiles (they only count the first hit).

No matter how many test they do, The only real test is in real combat. When you are facing a real fighter jet and not a remote control drone flying straight and level.

please correct me if I am wrong but do ureally think that a drone, no matter how advance, can match a multi million dollar jet piloted by a human being. I think otherwise. but I respect your opinion

The drone is piloted by a human being. And, yes, for the purposes of testing missiles, given that the defensive maneuvers are known ... it matches a human being. Easily. Like I said, these missiles are tested in realistic circumstances.

The only thing that is too perfect are the firing conditions - pilots are not under pressure, they can evaluate the DLZ and shots are always taken in parameters. The drones are not shooting back.

please correct me if I am wrong but do ureally think that a drone, no matter how advance, can match a multi million dollar jet piloted by a human being. I think otherwise. but I respect your opinion

Who's job it is to get shot down:)

I'm only joking, carry on...

Their job is to present a specific tactical situation and avoid the missile if possible. 'Their job is to be shot down' is just a biased statement. Live missile tests are very expensive and also reviewed the GAO among other things.

You don't just get to go 'easy mode' or 'good enough mode' and not get called on it. Doing the tests incorrectly results in more (and expensive) tests.

Yeah, I get it, but my point was that Eagle drivers are still mad for those no-warning-heaters ;)

Well, if they were stupid enough to fall for it, they deserved to die :megalol:

Well, if they were stupid enough to fall for it, they deserved to die :megalol:

You can call names around but I am not skilled enough to see them coming every time - seems there's really no way around than just to assume it's there and avoid.

The drone is piloted by a human being. And, yes, for the purposes of testing missiles, given that the defensive maneuvers are known ... it matches a human being. Easily. Like I said, these missiles are tested in realistic circumstances.

 

The only thing that is too perfect are the firing conditions - pilots are not under pressure, they can evaluate the DLZ and shots are always taken in parameters. The drones are not shooting back.

If a drone is piloted by a human then it wont be a drone anymore. I will be an aircraft.

They're both aircraft.

If a drone is piloted by a human then it wont be a drone anymore. I will be an aircraft.

please correct me if I am wrong but do ureally think that a drone, no matter how advance, can match a multi million dollar jet piloted by a human being. I think otherwise. but I respect your opinion

http://www.boeing.com/defense/support/qf-16/index.page

1. Multi million dollar jet

2. Piloted by a human being (remotely)

http://www.boeing.com/defense/support/qf-16/index.page

 

1. Multi million dollar jet

2. Piloted by a human being (remotely)

Wow. How much money do these countries have.

They are using real F16s as test targets.

They were using real F-4's before. As these planes retire, they are turned into drones for various purposes, including missile practice (pilots get to launch one or two missiles in peacetime if they're lucky) and missile tests. There are also cheaper, dedicated drones for such things as well. (as you can probably imagine, they might also be used to test the effectiveness of jammers etc ... but a lot of that work will typically get done in a HWIL lab).

This is why I say these tests are very expensive, and they are therefore done right in order to completely evaluate the weapon systems under realistic testing.

As an example AMRAAM would have been ready in '87... except these types of tests revealed that it wasn't well integrated for multi-TWS shots.

Today, a lot of simulation is done to figure out as many problems as possible before these tests occur.

They were using real F-4's before. As these planes retire, they are turned into drones for various purposes, including missile practice (pilots get to launch one or two missiles in peacetime if they're lucky) and missile tests. There are also cheaper, dedicated drones for such things as well. (as you can probably imagine, they might also be used to test the effectiveness of jammers etc ... but a lot of that work will typically get done in a HWIL lab).

 

This is why I say these tests are very expensive, and they are therefore done right in order to completely evaluate the weapon systems under realistic testing.

 

As an example AMRAAM would have been ready in '87... except these types of tests revealed that it wasn't well integrated for multi-TWS shots.

 

Today, a lot of simulation is done to figure out as many problems as possible before these tests occur.

sometimes I wonder How much effort and expenses humans are doing to kill other humans. These trillion dollar industries are just to kill each other.

Anyways very nice information. I did not have any idea about about the modus operandi of the missile test system.

sometimes I wonder How much effort and expenses humans are doing to kill other humans.

not that much in the grand scheme of things, military budget of most countries is below 5% gdp. even the united states' budget represents only 3.3%.

check out the video.

First he fires a radar guided. Then he uses the fireball to test a sidewinder.

Yep. As you may know, missiles have a shelf-life. They'll take the older or most used up ones (most amount of time accumulated in captive carry) and let pilots shoot some of them in exercises so that they can experience launching a real missile.

The fireball you mention is not the destroyed aircraft - it is a parachuting flare, common target for IRH shots.

check out the video.

 

First he fires a radar guided. Then he uses the fireball to test a sidewinder.

 

Ohh piece of candy! RWR audio can be heard 00:49-01:00

Keep this in my back pocket whenever ED decides to release the Falcon.