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Any MiG-21bis Improve Plan?


blklobo

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This topic became what it wasn't supposed to be in the first place. Even so, there are better todo list topics already, with the exact same requests every-time… Throwing rants again and again, with some statements contradicting the dedicated topics' content (much more enjoyable to read btw) and even the devs' answers, just made this thread pointless.

If the topic is touchy, the devs quickly answer, as seen quite recently. But now they are probably bored already and too accustomed to this…

 

Let me recap what I know:

— The FM is final. But finishing touches are about to be made (AoA)

— The radar has never been so realistic, it's perhaps where most of the efforts gone through the years.

— ASP, jammer and SPO ? never got an answer ever. I personally don't expect anything anymore.

— Nukes ? seriously…

— It has been officially announced that the 3D model and cockpit will be upgraded. Better than nothing, but it's still hard work to do.

— Due to be one of the first modules, the codebase is old. History proved that it can be very easily broken and hard to maintain through the DCS updates. M3 is not as powerful as Razbam or Belsimtek, although it's not as pitiful as some other studios.

— The effort is currently concentrated on the CE2's finalization. I think there are times to let the devs do their job peacefully when it's critical for them… What will happen then ? just wait for their next roadmap update then we'll decide to bash them again or not.

— MiG-19 and MiG-23 have been announced. Their impact on the market will probably affect the MiG-21's development. In a good or bad way ? nobody knows, so maybe there is some kind of wait and see among the M3 team.

— oops I'm still running DCS 1.5.8, I'm not allowed be mad because I must wait for years anyway…

— We all want updates

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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This topic became what it wasn't supposed to be in the first place. Even so, there are better todo list topics already, with the exact same requests every-time… Throwing rants again and again, with some statements contradicting the dedicated topics' content (much more enjoyable to read btw) and even the devs' answers, just made this thread pointless.

If the topic is touchy, the devs quickly answer, as seen quite recently. But now they are probably bored already and too accustomed to this…

 

Let me recap what I know:

— The FM is final. But finishing touches are about to be made (AoA)

— The radar has never been so realistic, it's perhaps where most of the efforts gone through the years.

— ASP, jammer and SPO ? never got an answer ever. I personally don't expect anything anymore.

— Nukes ? seriously…

— It has been officially announced that the 3D model and cockpit will be upgraded. Better than nothing, but it's still hard work to do.

— Due to be one of the first modules, the codebase is old. History proved that it can be very easily broken and hard to maintain through the DCS updates. M3 is not as powerful as Razbam or Belsimtek, although it's not as pitiful as some other studios.

— The effort is currently concentrated on the CE2's finalization. I think there are times to let the devs do their job peacefully when it's critical for them… What will happen then ? just wait for their next roadmap update then we'll decide to bash them again or not.

— MiG-19 and MiG-23 have been announced. Their impact on the market will probably affect the MiG-21's development. In a good or bad way ? nobody knows, so maybe there is some kind of wait and see among the M3 team.

— oops I'm still running DCS 1.5.8, I'm not allowed be mad because I must wait for years anyway…

— We all want updates

 

I don't know what the point of your post is other than telling people to stop complaining about something that has clear and obvious issues.

I think the biggest takeaway is that you probably haven't read the entire thread because your list is missing some of the *new* bugs that have sprung up in recent patches. Such as the new busted missile physics, the lighting screwups, and the latent FM problems like the 2G hard-coded limit.

 

While sure, maybe you're sick of clicking this forum and seeing threads complaining about it; maybe there's a reason there are threads complaining about it. It's not like these are all the same few bugs, the plane accrues new bugs as time goes on. So telling people to just stop complaining is pretty hollow. I don't know what you expect us to do if the plane continues to get bugs and will continue to get bugs into the future. Just uninstall it and quit flying? I'm going to be pretty disappointed if that's going to be your next response, because I do love the Mig-21 quite a bit.

 

Again, I make noise because I care.

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I don't know what the point of your post is other than telling people to stop complaining about something that has clear and obvious issues.

 

I don't want to stop you, I just tried to say that this thread's format is unproductive. I'm well aware about the new bugs, but me talking about them without being able to run the appropriate version of DCS would be hypocrite don't you think ? All those obvious bugs are so obvious, reported and commented all over the place with screenshots, that the devs can't notice them yet really ? A bug tracker was used, I don't know its current status but bug reporting with it would be IHMO more appropriate and less dangerous than this thread that turns out to be a rage collector with some wrong ideas that need to be endlessly corrected or explained again. This is just a crowd panic movement, but go ahead this is the next dev's reaction: "we assure you we haven't abandoned the MiG-21 module, the bugs are ED's fault, be patient"

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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I don't want to stop you, I just tried to say that this thread's format is unproductive. I'm well aware about the new bugs, but me talking about them without being able to run the appropriate version of DCS would be hypocrite don't you think ? All those obvious bugs are so obvious, reported and commented all over the place with screenshots, that the devs can't notice them yet really ? A bug tracker was used, I don't know its current status but bug reporting with it would be IHMO more appropriate and less dangerous than this thread that turns out to be a rage collector with some wrong ideas that need to be endlessly corrected or explained again. This is just a crowd panic movement, but go ahead this is the next dev's reaction: "we assure you we haven't abandoned the MiG-21 module, the bugs are ED's fault, be patient"

 

I support you. This guy is shitting the new release modules with improvements request. No way with him. Somebody help please... one day after other he go to Mig-23 or Mig-19 to do the same improvements request. He obviously trolling the new modules thread


Edited by pepin1234

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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oh of course you care, you care about your wants and your wishes

 

perhaps you should give some care and consideration to the resources and priorities of the dev instead

also newsflash: you're not their boss

What do you think this forum exists for, then? This thread is for issues that we are still noticing with the Mig-21. Do you have a problem with that? I don't understand why someone would be against pointing out bugs they're encountering with the software they bought, but here we are.

EDIT: Also I love your signature! :smilewink:

 

I don't want to stop you, I just tried to say that this thread's format is unproductive. I'm well aware about the new bugs, but me talking about them without being able to run the appropriate version of DCS would be hypocrite don't you think ?

 

That is 100% your own technical problem. Not mine. I'm sorry you don't have a PC capable of running 2.5, but there isn't anything I can do about that. Meanwhile, problems still continue to mount for the 2.5 Mig-21, so I continue to post in this thread.

 

All those obvious bugs are so obvious, reported and commented all over the place with screenshots, that the devs can't notice them yet really ? A bug tracker was used, I don't know its current status but bug reporting with it would be IHMO more appropriate and less dangerous than this thread that turns out to be a rage collector with some wrong ideas that need to be endlessly corrected or explained again. This is just a crowd panic movement, but go ahead this is the next dev's reaction: "we assure you we haven't abandoned the MiG-21 module, the bugs are ED's fault, be patient"

If you checked its current status, you would see exactly why people felt like making its thread: it still has issues open and unresolved that we're still discussing right now. Including issues that have sprung up since the 2.5 migration that aren't even on the list.

We know they haven't abandoned the Mig-21. I wouldn't post here if I thought otherwise. People still care about this plane. What is the danger of having a recent thread discussing recent issues with the plane? Do you want people just to necropost all the individual threads that talk about the individual problems like the lighting, the FM, and the missiles? That would spam the forum far worse than this thread does.

 

Do I even have to point out that the M2000C has a running list of bugs entirely ran by a user of that forum? Is that dangerous to have, as well?

Basically, if you think there is a better format to this thread or a better way to contact M3 about these problems than please, share your thoughts.

 

I support you. This guy is shitting the new release modules with improvements request. No way with him. Somebody help please... one day after other he go to Mig-23 or Mig-19 to do the same improvements request. He obviously trolling the new modules thread

You are lying. This is my only post in the 23 thread. and I specifically state that I'm looking forward to the 19P.

 

I have never once said anything bad about them. Saying that I'm demanding changes to the 23 is straight-up a lie. Stop stalking my posts if you aren't going to read them.

 

My posts in the 19P thread were entirely related to the fact that the bugs with the missiles now extend to other modules. I don't know how well you know about the game: but missiles are shared between modules. So me mentioning that the R-3S is bugged in another thread is related to the R-3S being bugged in the Mig-21. They share the same missile code, and yes, the existing bug known by M3 will now affect the 19P.

 

Please explain to the class how talking about R-3S performance with another thread is 'obviously trolling', or quit stalking my posts. You've posted twice now in two separate threads how much you don't want me posting, but you can easily ignore me at any time. If you want to continue this, follow up in PM because your complaining about it here is off-topic.


Edited by Auditor
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Guys, the proof is in reality: the MiG-21 has been abandoned on every front except some art updates. Many posts have been made about obvious flaws in FM, avionics, weapons etc.

 

I personally don't expect anything from them on the MiG-21. I think they might pull a simple aircraft like the CE2 off, and I think that's all they can offer right now and after the breakup with Heatlbur.

Making a simple aircraft is actually a good move, provided they can actually deliver that to a DCS level.

 

Of course, I consider all of this pretty bad because we all paid our hard earned cash for this, and we have an unfinished product. But this fits into a more general negative business model of > push unfinished product out in early access > get the money > move on to the next early access because the previous one stopped making revenue > no money and no motivation to actually finish what you sold.

This is for all DCS modules, and as we know, unfortunately, M3 is not the only one not delivering on their promises.

 

Beating a dead horse, vote with your wallets next time and maybe something will change.

Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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Guys, the proof is in reality: the MiG-21 has been abandoned on every front except some art updates. Many posts have been made about obvious flaws in FM, avionics, weapons etc.

 

I personally don't expect anything from them on the MiG-21. I think they might pull a simple aircraft like the CE2 off, and I think that's all they can offer right now and after the breakup with Heatlbur.

Making a simple aircraft is actually a good move, provided they can actually deliver that to a DCS level.

 

Of course, I consider all of this pretty bad because we all paid our hard earned cash for this, and we have an unfinished product. But this fits into a more general negative business model of > push unfinished product out in early access > get the money > move on to the next early access because the previous one stopped making revenue > no money and no motivation to actually finish what you sold.

This is for all DCS modules, and as we know, unfortunately, M3 is not the only one not delivering on their promises.

 

Beating a dead horse, vote with your wallets next time and maybe something will change.

 

I fully approve, we have paid ... and the product is definitely dead.

The performance frames are obscene and not optimized, the atomic bomb also kills the plane ... and everything else listed.

Unfortunately, it is a risk that can affect other modules purchased ... we hope that other software houses do not break with DCS and leave us with things unfinished (like Normandy that no longer knows anything).

Greetings

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

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When you spend money on a product that nobody adjusts and nobody knows anything, it makes you angry.

Ciao

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

CPU i7 7700K@4.5ghz * COOLER ARCTIC Freezer 13 CO * MB MSI Z270 Gaming M3 * RAM G.Skill 32GB DDR4-2400 DDR4 2400MHz * GPU Zotac GTX 1070Ti mini * SSD Samsung 850 EVO 500GB for S.O. * SSD Samsung 860 EVO 500GB for DCS * HDD 1TB WD Blue x2 * PSU Corsair CX650M * SO Windows 10 pro 64bit * TrackIR 5 * Saiteck x52 Pro

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Guys, the proof is in reality: the MiG-21 has been abandoned on every front except some art updates. Many posts have been made about obvious flaws in FM, avionics, weapons etc.

 

I personally don't expect anything from them on the MiG-21. I think they might pull a simple aircraft like the CE2 off, and I think that's all they can offer right now and after the breakup with Heatlbur.

Making a simple aircraft is actually a good move, provided they can actually deliver that to a DCS level.

 

Of course, I consider all of this pretty bad because we all paid our hard earned cash for this, and we have an unfinished product. But this fits into a more general negative business model of > push unfinished product out in early access > get the money > move on to the next early access because the previous one stopped making revenue > no money and no motivation to actually finish what you sold.

This is for all DCS modules, and as we know, unfortunately, M3 is not the only one not delivering on their promises.

 

Beating a dead horse, vote with your wallets next time and maybe something will change.

 

I don't even think that the Mig-21 as it is right now isn't playable. It's certainly playable, but definitely not enjoyable. Too many problems persist in it to make it a permanent mainstay among the planes I fly regularly. For someone just coming to the game, I would imagine they could get some time out of it before they run into the problems that the module suffers the most.

 

Which is why it's so frustrating to simply say "Well, I guess thems the breaks" and abandon any hope of it becoming a good module. It's so close to becoming one right now. It has glowing praise and reviews just from how the module behaves right at this moment.

 

And yeah, I agree that voting with your wallet is absolutely the best course of action. I'm probably not going to buy the CE2 at this rate, and frankly, I don't think anyone should as things stand right now. This is from someone who owns the YAK-52 and is proud to own it. That might change if they can show commitment to improving the products they release in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

These threads are better than soap operas, tbh.

I'm glad someone's having fun, because when I point out some serious issues that plague the aircraft and the response I get, all in row from several people who weren't involved previously, is "AAAAAAAAAA STOP POINTING OUT PROBLEMS ON THE DISCUSSION FORUM YOU MONSTER! THEY HAVE SO FEW RESOURCES, THINK OF THE POOR DEVS! SOMEBODY HELP PLEASE!" I start to wonder about people.

 

 

I fully approve, we have paid ... and the product is definitely dead.

The performance frames are obscene and not optimized, the atomic bomb also kills the plane ... and everything else listed.

Unfortunately, it is a risk that can affect other modules purchased ... we hope that other software houses do not break with DCS and leave us with things unfinished (like Normandy that no longer knows anything).

Greetings

 

This may sound naive, but I want to have some hope. They have worked on the Mig-21's physics modeling at least once this previous year. So I'm convinced they do have the manpower to do it, and maybe the expertise as well. At the very least, I'm convinced that fixing at least some of the problems aren't outside of their reach as they have completed updates recently that directly address critical issues.

 

Which is why I'm not going to give up posting in this thread, despite the pleas that everyone just stop posting, uninstall the fishbed, and go home.


Edited by Auditor
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I doubt they have any coders left tbh... Anyway I partly blame heatblur for the MiG-21 as well, after all, many of the issues that exist have been there for years, long before the split. Heatblur could well man up and buy back the rights for the MiG-21 and finish it.

Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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Heatblur could well man up and buy back the rights for the MiG-21 and finish it.

 

I'm beginning to think the Mig-21 would certainly be in better hands there. They did a stellar job of the Viggen and the Tomcat looks to be shaping up nicely.

 

I mean no offence to Leatherneck/Magnitude, but the communication here has been minimal at best. Teams like Razbam and Heatblur are very open about their progress. Even Aviodev, despite their slow progress, have been honest and upfront.

 

I really hope the Mig-21 will continue to be supported.

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The problem is no one would spend money to buy the rights to a product that is not generating revenue...

To be fair, I think the MiG-21 should be a very popular module, but probably many people in this community already have it, not sure how much more there is to chew.

It would be great if someone could buy it, fix it for good and re-launch it (of course we already paid, so we just need to be delivered the product we bought...not pay for it again)

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I doubt they have any coders left tbh... Anyway I partly blame heatblur for the MiG-21 as well, after all, many of the issues that exist have been there for years, long before the split. Heatblur could well man up and buy back the rights for the MiG-21 and finish it.

 

Nobody that worked on the Mig-21 works for Heatblur, apart from Cobra which, IIRC only worked on the art. HB isn't to blame for anything.

 

My guess stands true for most 3rd party DCS dev teams: they've got shovels of artists, yet next to no programmers. Feels like M3 only has half of a programmer (probably working part time). Same thing applies for Razbam. They've got a ton of announced modules with artwork being done, but system programming goes at a slow pace.

 

Anyway, there's way too many long standing issues with the -21. People praise them when they release their bi-annual patches because it fixes 2-3 problems just because we're not used to seeing any updates from their part.

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There will be an update on our development in October...

https://magnitude-3.com/

https://www.facebook.com/magnitude3llc

https://www.youtube.com/@magnitude_3

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There will be an update on our development in October...

Great to hear :thumbup:

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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