obious Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Hi All, After clearing out my parents house a month or so ago due to them moving, I cam across my old gaming PC that I built back in 2012. It had: Intel 3930K (OC'd to 4.7Ghz) Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Battlefield 3 Edition) Corsair HX1050 PSU GTX680 Corsair 125GB SSD Corsair 16GB 1600Mhz RAM For the hell of it, I thought I'd download DCS just to see what the performance was like; needless to say, it wasn't great given the low graphical settings I had to use but considering I'm running a LG 34" Ultrawide at 3440x1440 I was pretty impressed. Anyway, long story short I always wanted to try DCS in VR so I decided to upgrade a few components to make it possible. I bought a Rift, Zotac 1080ti Mini and a Samsung 500GB SSD. With a slight overclock on the 1080ti and the aforementioned OC on the CPU, I'm able to sustain some pretty good frame rates during VR (PD: 2, most settings on High etc). My question is, is it worth upgrading to the 9900K (when I manage to find it in stock) along with a new MoBo (currently thinking Asus Maximus XI Code), 32GB of 3600Mhz RAM and an NVME drive. Essentially, will spending around £1500-2000 on a new build result in a 'decent' gain in FPS performance? Thanks Intel 12900k @ 5.2Ghz, RTX 4090, Samsung 1TB NVME, Thrustmaster Warthog & F-18 stick, Pendular Rudder Pedals - Quest Pro AV8B N/A UFC Build Log AV8B N/A PCBs for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Since you already top out at 4.7G there is little to gain at that front, considering the money it needs. another 16GB ( maybe a used kit ) would help as well, maybe just as much as a new CPU that, if lucky, runs 300MHz faster. Bad deal I'd say. I'd run that 4.7G chip till it dies, or the board...and wait till AMD brings 7nm dies, that will likely make things more worth to upgrade imho. I wouldnt buy into 12/14-nm anymore, that era is over. Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headwarp Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Hi All, After clearing out my parents house a month or so ago due to them moving, I cam across my old gaming PC that I built back in 2012. It had: Intel 3930K (OC'd to 4.7Ghz) Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Battlefield 3 Edition) Corsair HX1050 PSU GTX680 Corsair 125GB SSD Corsair 16GB 1600Mhz RAM For the hell of it, I thought I'd download DCS just to see what the performance was like; needless to say, it wasn't great given the low graphical settings I had to use but considering I'm running a LG 34" Ultrawide at 3440x1440 I was pretty impressed. Anyway, long story short I always wanted to try DCS in VR so I decided to upgrade a few components to make it possible. I bought a Rift, Zotac 1080ti Mini and a Samsung 500GB SSD. With a slight overclock on the 1080ti and the aforementioned OC on the CPU, I'm able to sustain some pretty good frame rates during VR (PD: 2, most settings on High etc). My question is, is it worth upgrading to the 9900K (when I manage to find it in stock) along with a new MoBo (currently thinking Asus Maximus XI Code), 32GB of 3600Mhz RAM and an NVME drive. Essentially, will spending around £1500-2000 on a new build result in a 'decent' gain in FPS performance? Thanks Sitting here looking at your mobo's specs, says max 64GB DDR3 2400.. but looking at the qvl list there's maybe one 24gb listing and the rest are 2-16GB >.< Not quite sure I get that.. however - 32GB kits of ddr3 1600-2400mhz are listed around $200 @ Newegg. I honestly can't speak for what improvements you might see because of this but, it's a lot cheaper than a whole new build, and ram has a 30 day return policy if it doesn't offer you any noticeable improvement. If you're maintaining 45fps in VR you're pretty much golden. No amount of hardware is going to get around that for DCS at the moment. Planning on upgrading to 32GB asap myself but not soon enough to let you know what kind of benefits I might see from it. Spoiler Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles. Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener. Obutto R3volution gaming pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_sukebe Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 If you have a big DCS install footprint, then an additional SSD should help System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse. Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headwarp Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 This is what my ram and page file usage look like when DCS is running.. I'd honestly love to see a comparison with someone using 32gb of ram. Looking at all those hard faults I'm guessing I should go on a ramen diet to get a 32 gb kit sooner than later. Spoiler Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles. Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener. Obutto R3volution gaming pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obious Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 If you have a big DCS install footprint, then an additional SSD should help I already have a 500gb SSD that is pretty quick and with all maps installed plus 4-5 plane modules, there's plenty of room to spare another 16GB ( maybe a used kit ) would help as well, maybe just as much as a new CPU that, if lucky, runs 300MHz faster. Bad deal I'd say. I think you're probably right, I can get a 32gb kit for around £120 so I may look at doing that to be honest. The thought of getting a new shinny build together is pretty exciting though, that and having DCS on an NVME drive that should hopefully speed things up a little? Intel 12900k @ 5.2Ghz, RTX 4090, Samsung 1TB NVME, Thrustmaster Warthog & F-18 stick, Pendular Rudder Pedals - Quest Pro AV8B N/A UFC Build Log AV8B N/A PCBs for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lao Fei Mao Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 NEME can only help improve the loading speed and kill possible stutter, but helpless on FPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FragBum Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) [ATTACH]197383[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]197384[/ATTACH] This is what my ram and page file usage look like when DCS is running.. I'd honestly love to see a comparison with someone using 32gb of ram. Looking at all those hard faults I'm guessing I should go on a ramen diet to get a 32 gb kit sooner than later. I'll see what I can find but my experience going from 32GB and sod all virtual memory usage to 64GB and still sod all virtual memory usage. Having said that DCS now has a fairly good memory management regime and I have to try hard to get DCS to use much more then 10 or so GB of ram. @OP I would look at graphics card the 680 might be a tad limiting 16GB should be usable for basic missions without much else running maybe see how you go before adding more ram. YMMV :thumbup: <edit> Not much to see here and not much different from 32GB RAM. Edited November 9, 2018 by FragBum Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment. Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above. Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn8ke_iis Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Check single thread benchmarks and price to performance in your market. DCS likes fast single thread performance on a single core. If you watch utilization with an OSD, one core will spike up above the others. This is usually the CPU bottleneck. 9900K's have the best single thread performance right now, but it's a pricey premium for that performance. I think 9600K's are running less than $300 US for real good single thread price to performance ratio right now. Thing is with a 9900K you get 8 cores which has benefits in other apps and games besides DCS. DCS potentially could use those extra processors in a Vulcan build. But as of now, you would be spending a lot money for just a few frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tintifaxl Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I would postpone a cpu upgrade till ED has finished the conversion to Vulcan and decide then which cpu to get. Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_sukebe Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I would postpone a cpu upgrade till ED has finished the conversion to Vulcan and decide then which cpu to get. That’s what I’m currently doing. I know that the intel is definitely better now, and with the same number of cores will probably be a little faster even if Vulkan spreads the load. For all that, the AMD route is a good deal cheaper, allowing an upgrade to the next generation VR solution when it arrives (I don’t believe it’s here yet). System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse. Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbattx Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Upgrading from Intel 3930K to 9900K. Worth it? NEME can only help improve the loading speed and kill possible stutter, but helpless on FPS. can you explain more? how does it kill stutter? is it because of the access time? the asset being loaded, loads in 0.003 ms instead of 0.0035ms? or is it because of the drivers? with the neme drivers being more efficient than the sata drivers? i’d have to see some test results on this first. Edited November 9, 2018 by etherbattx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 kmAWqyHdebI [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 the 95w TDP is when all cores run @ 3.6GHz ! 195w fits a lot better Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supmua Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 You can get the 9900k to 5.1-5.2 GHz, but it generates so much heat and really needs high-end cooler and PC case with good airflow. I have Cooler Master 360R AIO in Phanteks Evolv X case and overclock mine to 5.0 GHZ. CPU temp can get to 83C when stressed with benchmarks, probably approaching 90C with higher clockspeed. PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti. Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2 Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon) VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacken Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 NEME can only help improve the loading speed and kill possible stutter, but helpless on FPS. In my opinion, NVMe drives are no better than SATA SSDs for games. I have DCS OB installed on my 970 NVMe and release version installed on my 850 SATA, and I cannot tell the difference in load times etc. Now, when it comes to system stuff etc., the NVMe 970 wins hands down! Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Now, when it comes to system stuff etc., the NVMe 970 wins hands down! Exactly ! Tho there are still things in system management landscape which are IPC limited by a single core, just been there when I did my reinstall and Acronis 12.5 UL recovery process. Sometimes the limit was 1 core at 5G full tilt. Then, nothing helps but 5.1 or 5.2...if it matters at all for such tasks, you defo dont want a borderline OC for a Recovery Task ...or maybe yes :doh: Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obious Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 In my opinion, NVMe drives are no better than SATA SSDs for games. What about RAM? With a new build I have lined up, I thinking of installing 2x 8GB DDR4 4000Mhz Corsair sticks. I’m assuming there’d be an increase of some sort noticed since I’d be coming from currently using 16GB DDR3 at 1600Mhz? Intel 12900k @ 5.2Ghz, RTX 4090, Samsung 1TB NVME, Thrustmaster Warthog & F-18 stick, Pendular Rudder Pedals - Quest Pro AV8B N/A UFC Build Log AV8B N/A PCBs for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headwarp Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) I'll see what I can find but my experience going from 32GB and sod all virtual memory usage to 64GB and still sod all virtual memory usage. Having said that DCS now has a fairly good memory management regime and I have to try hard to get DCS to use much more then 10 or so GB of ram. @OP I would look at graphics card the 680 might be a tad limiting 16GB should be usable for basic missions without much else running maybe see how you go before adding more ram. YMMV :thumbup: <edit> Not much to see here and not much different from 32GB RAM. The guy already replaced his 680 >.< But looking at your screenshots. Seeing the lack of hard faults I'm now curious what that would look like with a system managed page file. Flying the Instant Action for the Hornet over Caucasus - 8v8 ACM, I watched my hard faults climb 600/s while in flight. So seeing the kit of ram I currently have installed drop to $134 on sale, I ordered another kit last night. You have almost no hardfaults at all on your rig, which with page file disabled makes sense. I am curious what that screenshot would look like with your page file running system managed while flying dcs. But.. as long as I don't run into any issues installing the second kit I'll be able to mostly answer that myself by monday/teusday hopefully. FYI - I'm trying to eliminate an issue with steam vr loading screen popping up while in flight, which that hornet instant action mission likes to induce. I'm hoping it's a lack of ram causing the dropped frames. I'm feeling pretty good about it honestly, given the way my system is hard faulting when running DCS. I'll know sometime after the weekend. I swear Newegg knows exactly how to get me to spend money sometimes. Edited November 16, 2018 by Headwarp Spoiler Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles. Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener. Obutto R3volution gaming pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 They know you & me inside out, believe me :helpsmilie: Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Apropos hardfaults : When i did my HF investigation I found out that measuring the HF itself caused them to appear if you use the wrong tool. Any logging, the deeper the more intense, will influence your output. ..just saying, I havent found a proper way to measure them w/o causing them too. Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirusAM Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 the 95w TDP is when all cores run @ 3.6GHz ! 195w fits a lot better in DCS with all cores at 5.1GHz it never suprassed 60W consumption....at least misured with MSI Afterburner...i don’t know if it is reliable R7-5800X3D 64GB RTX-4090 LG-38GN950 Valve Index VPForce Rhino FFB, Virpil F-14 (VFX) Grip, Virpil Alpha Grip, Virpil CM3 Throttle + Control Panel 2, Winwing Orion (Skywalker) Pedals, Razer Tartarus V2 SpeedMaster Flight Seat, JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrl11 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 You may consider the lower cost i7-9700k since dcs is single threaded. It runs very well on it with my RTX2080ti in VR. 1st vAEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitMaster Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 in DCS with all cores at 5.1GHz it never suprassed 60W consumption....at least misured with MSI Afterburner...i don’t know if it is reliable Sure, with my "195w" I ment the full all-core load, not DCS. 195w might not even be enough for that tbh, rather 220-250w I guess Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headwarp Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) Apropos hardfaults : When i did my HF investigation I found out that measuring the HF itself caused them to appear if you use the wrong tool. Any logging, the deeper the more intense, will influence your output. ..just saying, I havent found a proper way to measure them w/o causing them too. I'm only using the windows resource monitor and arranging from most memory used to put DCS at the top. Just on the desktop or running less hungry games my hard fault graph looks more like Frag's. Adding page faults to task manager "Detailed" list doesn't differentiate between hard and soft faults but DCS gets up to about 15million total page faults just loading the game and then continues to grow rapidly. And then with VR i have enough room on my screen to watch the resource monitor when i lift my headset up.. 30-40 hardfaults/s, and then the 600/s at which point I checked ram prices again and haven't logged back in. If the additional ram doesn't cure my woes at least I can say that currently outside of a 9th gen processor my rig has pretty much no room for throwing money at it looking for improvements in DCS >.< $134 wasn't a bad deal for 16 gb of 3200mhz ram with shiney RGB. Edited November 16, 2018 by Headwarp Spoiler Win 11 Pro, z790 i9 13900k, RTX 4090 , 64GB DDR 6400GB, OS and DCS are on separate pci-e 4.0 drives Sim hardware - VKB MCG Ultimate with 200mm extension, Virpil T-50CM3 Dual throttles. Blackhog B-explorer (A), TM Cougar MFD's (two), MFG Crosswinds with dampener. Obutto R3volution gaming pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts