Input Devices Re-Initialisation

I still have the issue here as well.

I easily get over 100 re-inits in an hour of DCS.

I tried all possible suggestions here and off of the internet without success.

I also get the trackir issue once in a while.

The suggestion by RedShoes is something I will consider, but it only happens in DCS so I still feel it must be DCS related.

Thanks for the tips!

The suggestion by RedShoes is something I will consider, but it only happens in DCS so I still feel it must be DCS related.

When I was having the issue, it also did occur in other games (IL-2 BoS & WarThunder), which used all the USB flight controls I had connected at the time. (TM T.16000m + X-52 throttle + Saitek Throttle Quadrant + MFG Crosswinds + TiR5.0 + keyboard + mouse + USB wireless headset) So, I concluded that my issue was with motherboard HW not supplying enough power to all my USB devices. I had the issue with both PCs I have at home (a i7-3930K build with Asus Asus P9x79 pro MB and a i7-4790K build with MSI Z97 gaming 5 MB). Funny enough, a powered USB hub did not resolve the issue, it was only resolved by a PCI-E USB extension card with 12V from my PC power supply.

When the issue occurred, I got the clear "bling - blong" sound notification from windows of USB devices being disconnected and reconnected.

Back then I tried to find out if it was any particular USB device causing the problem by removing them one by one, but could not find out.

Finally the $25 for the USB PCI-E card was a cheap price to resolve my issue.

@RedShoes

Thanks for the info.

I ordered your suggested PCi-E USB board just now and see if that does the trick.

If it doesn't work I at least have a bunch of extra USB ports.

I will let you guys know if this suggestion fixed it for me, I hope it does, as i can't use half of the buttons/switches on my TM Warthog Throttle because this also causes phantom clicks on the throttle.

Thanks for the help!

Dutch Baron, please come back and let us know how your new card runs. I have had an identical problem now for many months. All of my USB devices run via powered expansion hubs, but these are USB 2 hubs.

My problem dates from when hot-pluggable USB was introduced. Co-incidence? Perhaps.

@Flyco

Yes I remember you had these issues too, same for me, months and months of frustration and I will for sure let you now if this new tip does the trick!

When the issue occurred, I got the clear "bling - blong" sound notification from windows of USB devices being disconnected and reconnected.

I think most the people experiencing this issue do not get the "bling - blong" disconnect/reconnect sound. That's a different issue and your solution sounds like a good one for power issues.

In my case, for sure that's not the case. It only occurs in DCS, not in any other game and not in Windows. I eventually reduced my config down to a single joystick and keyboard (not even a mouse) and moved those devices around to every USB port I had (on motherboard, on motherboard through a on motherboard hub as not all motherboard ports come directly off the main chip set, and various external hubs, powered or unpowered). It had no effect on the issue. I also proved this using USBLogView which would show if devices were actually disconnecting/reconnecting due to a power issue, or bad or loose USB connector.

If it's a power or faulty cable issue, the problem would occur in all games or even in Windows watching the "game devices" dialog even with no games loaded (again this is where USBLogView is helpful). But the issue most people are reporting here is specific to DCS.

DirectX reinitialization by DCS causing the problem???

I wonder if it is related to a DirectX command issued by DCS as a result of some Windows event or just in general. Maybe when DCS added the ability to hot swap USB devices, they implemented it in a way that they issue a command that causes a USB or DirectX reset, and that causes all devices to be reacquired by DCS. If so, this is probably not the correct way to do it as DCS locks up for 1-3 seconds due to this event and it resets some (or all) USB devices.

I will look at the DXDiag logs next to see what I can find. Maybe I can even find a way to create the event myself by writing some code that will cause a DirextX initialization. simFFB has the ability to do a DirectX Initialization (it's part of how you must use simFFB with DCS). I think I saw the problem happen once or twice when I used simFFB to reinit DirectX, but my tests are not conclusive. To be clear, though, I have this problem even when I am not using simFFB.

Check win-raid.com site for newest usb drivers. May need to read it up closely before you act.

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For me is was the Realtek sound card causing the issue. Disabled it in the bios and that fixed it.

Soundcard kept thinking a jack was being plugged in to the headphones socket and then removed, even with the socket removed (!) which triggers DCS to reinit all the devices. At least in my case it was definitely hardware and not DCS related.

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Sorry, I dont run Windows 10 at the Moment (Windows 10 HDD Died and hasnt been replaced).

 

From What I understand, is Windows 10 Integrated a new Selective Suspend Setting, Or Rather, Changed the Default from OFF to ON.

 

Where USB Devices will Randomly Power Off in a Cycle.

 

From What I can tell, the only way to disable it is to turn it off by Device in the registry.

 

Microsoft may or maynot have put out a hotfix that added the option to power plan settings.

 

The Issue is Selective Suspends Cycles through each USB Port putting them in low power mode,

 

When you remove a Majority of the Voltage from the USB Port, Devices Like Joysticks, TrackIR, Oculus, Vive, etc, all Power Off. Then Windows Detects activity and puts the power back on.

 

The Issue is, for Windows 10 Anniversary Update, all Vendors should have re-compiled their drivers to tell Windows 10 if the device supports Selective Suspend or not, thus preventing Windows from Powering down those Ports. If not Windows 10 Will Assume its Selective Suspend Capable, throw the USB Port in Low Power Mode, Knock any device connected to that USB Chain offline, then turn it back on when it senses device activity.

 

So Far, AFAIK, only Oculus has Released Such Drivers, and Natural Point (at least that I'm aware of).

 

Further, Microsoft Themselves Warn not to Disable Selective Suspend, because it "Saves Power".

 

But I know Overclockers that have disabled it fine w/ no difference in power consumption (Measured at the wall), as most USB Devices that use High Amounts of Power (ie Oculus Rift), Suspend on their own when the API isnt Running.

 

Things like Mouse/Keyboard use Minimal USB Power.

 

I doubt Thrustmaster Makes the Warthog or other USB HOTAS/Devices Sleep on their own.

USBDeview.exe

This is the utility I use to resolve the above. It identifies the USB ports and links to the Registry where you can modify the "Power Saving Mode" from 1 to 0 thereby nullifying the port from shutting down at presumed non-use. Note: Seems when big W10 updates become available, one has to reset them again.

Sorry, no link but a search should show it. If not I can upload once I figure out how to do that. :)

For me is was the Realtek sound card causing the issue. Disabled it in the bios and that fixed it.

 

Soundcard kept thinking a jack was being plugged in to the headphones socket and then removed, even with the socket removed (!) which triggers DCS to reinit all the devices. At least in my case it was definitely hardware and not DCS related.

My motherboard does have Realtek audio. When I disconnect or reconnect my microphone, most the time, it causes the problem. I confirmed that the Realtek driver is causing a re-init of the audio devices and this causes the problem in DCS. I did not try it with the lineout/headphone jack, but I have every reason to believe it will do the same.

But the bad news is, disabling the onboard Audio from the BIOS did not stop the problem.

I also reconfirmed that hitting the "Init DirectInput" in simFFB's will cause the problem consistently as well (something I wasn't sure of before). This isn't about simFFB, but more the point is that simFFB is just performing a DirextX initialization, and that causes the issue in DCS.

And of course, manually disconnecting or reconnecting a USB game controller causes the problem consistently. So having a faulty USB connector, a USB power issue (which may cause USB devices to reset), or an audio jack that is loose may cause the problem randomly, but sadly, after removing all those possible causes, I'm still having the issue in DCS from a source I cannot find.

It is important to note, the issue with resetting the FFB stick only occurs in DCS. For example, if I use another program (simFFB or another sim like X-Plane) to control the FFB stick (without DCS running of course), and then I disconnect or reconnect USB devices or my microphone, the FFB stick does not reset, and the game does not lock up momentarily. I believe that when DCS added the ability to hot swap a controller, they added a DirectX init command. This may have been a bad idea. Fixing that would solve the FFB devices resetting. But would it also fix the issue of DCS momentarily locking up? It might. If DCS issues a DirextX reset, it causes all USB game controllers to reset and DCS must now reacquire them. If, instead, they only re-acquired the device that is hot plugged, it might not cause a momentary lockup.

This is a serious problem that I believe a lot of people are just putting up with. I originally thought it was a graphics issue - because a lot of video games hesitate momentarily. I just assumed nVidia would release a new driver to fix it some day. But a year later, no fix, and now I realize (because of my FFB stick resetting), this is an issue caused by DCS doing something with DirextX, not a graphics driver issue. I hope we can find a solution soon.

USBDeview.exe

This is the utility I use to resolve the above. It identifies the USB ports and links to the Registry where you can modify the "Power Saving Mode" from 1 to 0 thereby nullifying the port from shutting down at presumed non-use. Note: Seems when big W10 updates become available, one has to reset them again.

 

Sorry, no link but a search should show it. If not I can upload once I figure out how to do that. :)

USBDView is made by Nirsoft, the same people that make USBLogView. Here's the link for USBLogView. There is a link on that page for USBDView as well.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_log_view.html

To those that don't know, USBLogView will show all USB device events (plug in, unplug, etc.). So it will show if a USB device is connecting and disconnecting due to, say, a bad cable or USB port. I don't think it shows devices being put to sleep, though. Or at least I never saw that happen.

USBDView is more of a device list display. It shows all USB devices currently pluged in, or which were plugged in in the past, but are currently unplugged, along with all kinds of system information including details about the drivers for each device and as Catseye says, registry info.

Catseye, thanks for the note - I hate to dive into the registry to solve this, but I'll check it out.

Got this 3 times last night. Too bad my new axis assignment had the chopper throttle on one of it. The disconnection set the throttle straight to 0 which leaves you with no choice but to autorotate to the ground since I am mostly flying below 100 ft. :((

Got this 3 times last night. Too bad my new axis assignment had the chopper throttle on one of it. The disconnection set the throttle straight to 0 which leaves you with no choice but to autorotate to the ground since I am mostly flying below 100 ft. :((

This happen to me also, have this issue for months and sometime it's so bad that my chopper crash. I dont belive this is hardware related, more into DCS coding. Hope DEV will look into this so we can hav a fix.

Just for information, I have been recording these re-initialisation incidents since Jul 2016. All are very similar, with DCS re-initialising my input devices well into the mission, ousually in batches of 5, lasting for well under a second, and sometimes up to 100 times in a single sortie.

I don't know when the hot-plug facility was introduced, but I believe it was from about then, and that would be my best bet as to its cause. No evidence for this, purely circumstantial.

Edit - just checked and hot-plug appears to be first mentioned in late Jun 2016 in the Forum.

Hello all,

So after ordering the 5 port USB card, I installed it and was not surprised to see my issue has NOT been resolved by this USB card. I do have over 25 Euros less in the bank, but I gained 5 USB ports, whooopeeee!!!....

Just to be clear, I never heard any USB sound from being plugged/unplugged while flying in DCS, so I did not expect this USB card to solve the issue, but after being so desperate I am willing to do just about anything, except throwing more money at this problem.

After reading CiriBob's comment, regarding the RealTek audio card, I tried something that gave me a big shocker.....

So what did I do:

While in DCS and looking at the live log (using LogExpert), I removed my 3.5mm headset jack plug from the socket and BOOOOM!!!! the log filled up with re-initializations.

When plugging it back in BOOOOM!!! again the log filled with entries.

My log entries look like this:

00562.344 INFO INPUT: Device [Joystick - HOTAS Warthog {7B9A4200-572D-11e5-8002-444553540000}] created deviceId = 174

00562.344 INFO INPUT: Joystick created[Joystick - HOTAS Warthog {7B9A4200-572D-11e5-8002-444553540000}], ForceFeedBack: no

00562.345 INFO INPUT: Device [Throttle - HOTAS Warthog {7ADB85E0-572D-11e5-8001-444553540000}] created deviceId = 175

00562.345 INFO INPUT: Joystick created[Throttle - HOTAS Warthog {7ADB85E0-572D-11e5-8001-444553540000}], ForceFeedBack: no

00562.369 INFO INPUT: Device [Keyboard] created deviceId = 176

This is the ultimate proof that the hotplug functionality is the culprit here.

I my case it seems the RealTek audio card is the system affected by this, but CiriBob's suggestion to disable the RealTek is not an option for me, as this RealTek is my main and only sound system.

I updated all related drivers, but still have this issue.

As stated before, this issue appeared after a DCS update, most likely related to the hot-plug option.

Again, I hope ED can finally arrange a hotfix, or a procedure to turn this option off altogether, so all those players with this issue can possibly be helped, looking at the amount of views and responses in this thread, we are not alone in this situation.

I expect I will get some answers like, buy a new or another audio card, but why on earth would I buy a new card, while I have one in perfect working order, and the only situation where the issue occurs is in DCS and it has NEVER happened before this specific update over !! 1 year !! ago. I started this thread 07-11-2016.

So please my dear people of ED, can you PLEASE provide us with a hotfix or procedure or even a MOD to turn the hotplug functionality off and see if this fixes our extremely frustrating issues that many of us have been experiencing for over 1 year?

I know ED is VERY busy with all kinds of great stuff for the future, but a fair share of your paying customers have issues with the DCS RELEASE version, meaning the correct working version for paying customers, where these paying customers do have a right to ask for a fix on certain issues they are facing with the consumer product.

I am not ranting or trying to offend anyone, but I do expect that any professional company can understand that consumers can be very much frustrated by issues they are experiencing, especially for such a long time and during EVERY single flight they do in DCS.

Me being an active community member of TAW, means I fly a lot and do a lot with/for DCS.

So I hope BigNewy, SkateZilla or SithSpawn are willing to communicate this to ED and let me know the results of this communication.

Much appreciated and thanks for taking the time to read this.

P.s. Please note that my emotions regarding DCS are high, but the only reason for that is that I LOVE DCS!

Thanks for the update Dutch Baron. Sorry about your expenses.

I have a Realtek card, but I use a Bluetooth headset via USB for sound. I will have to see if I can disable the Realkek and still get sound.

Nevertheless, I echo your pleas to ED. Do have a look at it for all those frustrated people who are experiencing this problem. I suspect it must be hundreds, but unless they have critical USB controllers and check the logs file, most may not be aware of it.

Guys, I can not tell you how good it feels to read this thread - I am somehow relieved yet still dissatisfied.

I stopped playing this sim in 2014 (had other things to do). During the summer of 2017 I had the opportunity to buy an Oculus Rift and tried it out only using an Xbox controller with dcs.

I was so blown away: I had to buy the Thrustmaster Warthog, MFDs, Milan's MFG Crosswind and REINITIATED "nolife.exe"

In short :all the sim products I now own are all new stuff ..yet I (often) sometimes have exactly the same behaviour with the Warthog Throttle as mentioned here by you.

I would therefore say we can safely exclude the possibility of the Warthog Throttle's internal electronics and wires of being loose.

Although, there still is a chance that a big stack of Thrustmaster's Warthog Throttles were made with faulty electronics and distributed into the wide world (and we are now the lucky ones owning these things) - or there must be something wrong with the way DCS / Windows handles this situation.

I noticed the here mentioned behaviour shortly after I started setting up controls for my Warthog (i.e. binding electrical power for FC3 aircraft on EAC Switch and opening/closing cockpit on the Radar Altimeter Switch -> I find this funny cause there is one guy in the beginning of this thread who practically mentioned "a sudden opening of my canopy + loss of electrical power", which of course is exactly the same thing that now happens to me :D

Oh man, my face when it occurred for the first time.. priceless.

Now, I actually also have another problem right now: With the latest two patches I am also having lots of timeouts in multiplayer (unwanted disconnects).

I'm not too sure whether both issues are somehow related to each other (specifically: if this issue with the Warthog Throttle ultimately causes the disconnects from server / connection timeouts).

I therefore want to ask you:

Do you have lots of connection timeouts recently (you are getting disconnected from servers, press "OK" and you can still see the server being online / people playing on it in the server browser)?

Quarz, it's good to see more people registering this problem. Keep coming, the rest of you, try and persuade ED to take a look.

As for disconnections form Servers, i can't say that it is a regular occurrence, certainly not as bad as you seem to be experiencing. I get the occasional drop out, but usually it seems to be loss of connection with the server, rather than just dropping off the game-plot, which is what i understand you are experiencing.

I my case it seems the RealTek audio card is the system affected by this, but CiriBob's suggestion to disable the RealTek is not an option for me, as this RealTek is my main and only sound system.

I updated all related drivers, but still have this issue.!

You don't have to get rid of your onboard Realtek Audio because doing so will not solve the problem. Try it - disable the onboard audio through the BIOS and try DCS. See if you continue to get the problem. In my case, I saw no effect. But if your audio jack is faulty and causing your mic or headphone to connect/disconnect randomly, then yes, of course, disabling your Realtek audio will reduce the number of times this issue occurs, but not get rid of it.

Disconnecting or reconnecting a mic or headphone will cause the Realtek driver to re-init the audio devices because that is what it does. This is a normal feature of the Realtek driver (and probably every other audio card) to auto detect changing inputs and outputs and add/subtract them from the available audio devices. But there are many other things on our computers that will do the same thing, and any one of them can cause DCS to pause and re-init.

Reread my post, #60 (https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3288227&postcount=60) where I explain all the ways it is possible to recreate this issue with DCS. It is normal for many different sources to cause a change in available devices on the system. And any such change causes DCS to pause and re-init DirectX. Obviously, while in DCS, you would want to minimize this occurring by not inserting or removing any such devices, but it seems (in my case at least), there is something in Windows that still causes DCS to re-init ever 1 to 15 minutes. My point being this is a normal part of Windows, and it is unavoidable to prevent it. No amount of turning off power saving modes, or the other fixes people have suggested consistently solve the issue.

What I believe is going on with DCS is that in reaction to these common and regular Windows events, DCS is issuing a DirectX reset or re-init which will reset some devices (like some FFB sticks, or certain USB I/O boards), and then doing so causes DCS to have to reacquire all USB input devices which takes 1-3 seconds, causing a complete lockup of DCS.

I've been discussing this verbally with friends that fly DCS and explaining the symptoms. More and more I am discovering that many people have this issue but have just been ignoring it because it doesn't mess up their USB devices, or it doesn't happen as often to them. It causes momentary lockups in DCS, but like me, they thought it was just a graphics glitch, or that DCS was just being glitchy period, and they just accepted that it is a fact of life. But now I think there is a pretty clear explanation of what is going on and possibly how to solve it.

In my case, this is an intermittent problem. I can fly a 2 hr sortie and not get a single re-initialisation. Other 30 min sorties will produce 2 or 3 of them. One strange property is that, apart from the initial start-up, they seem to come in batches of 5. And each batch of 5is completed in well under a second. But still long enough to switch a few of my Device switches to cycle on and then off.

Your theory may be right, but everyone’s system seems to misbehave in a similar, but not identical way.

If anyone is interested, I can let them have my collection of over a 100 log files, showing this. I thought not!

I also 'suffer' from this issue but luckily not that often, and yes i also got a Realtek onboard soundcard.

After some googeling on Realtek connection/device detection issues i ran into some posts which might help. I followed the instructions in one post and the dis-reconnect hasn't occured yet at all for a couple of days.

Apart from 1 setting (advanced playback device) i did what was described in the post with the pics of the Realtek Audio Manager, including the disabling of the notifications from Realtek HD Audio Manager (Windows 10):

https://superuser.com/questions/954867/keep-the-realtek-application-off-my-computer-in-windows-10

Dutch Baron found a vid with similar instructions for Windows 7:

E: It just happened again.. never mind all this :|

Hi ,

As mention in previous post I have been struggling with this issue over a very long periode of time when it occurs about every 15-20 min. I also have the Realtek audio card, and uninstalling the drivers did not make any different.

I have been running DCS in 4k 3840x2160 native resolution, but today I changed to 2560x1440 and the issue seems to have disappeared. I have now been flying for about 3 hours in 1.5 open beta and 2 hours in 2.0 open alpha with none Input Devices Re-Initialization.

I will do some more flying and report back if any changes.

Edit: Change back to 4K and still no Input Devices Re-Initialization, have no clue what fix it in my case.

Edit: After more investigating why my issue disappeared I found out that when changed from HD to AC97 in Bios/onboard devices/sound that did the big trick for me. When turning back to HD, the issue come back.

Played DCS without any Input Devices Re-Initialization for about 15 hours, before I was lucky if this not occurred every 15 minutes.

DCS now feels like a new combat sim without any stutters and input Devices Re-Initialization :-)

My PC spec:

i7-3930K @ 3.20GHz /4.6GHZ

RAMPAGE IV EXTREME

Ram 32GB

Geforce GTX Titan 6GB

TrackIr

Hi Olmba,

Thanks for your report.

I have tried to do what you suggested, but I can't find this option of HD/AC97 in my bios.

Could you please explain a bit more where I can find this option, maybe with a screenshot?

As far as I know this is a physical connection on the motherboard towards the front panel audio module, where the HD connector is a little different from the AC97 connector (wire connections), I don't even have the AC97 connector on my PC.

I have also disabled the realtek audio card completely, but this did not solve the issue at all, and of course I would not have any audio with the realtek disabled.

If this turns out to be the fix I have been looking for all this time, I will buy you a beer ;

Thanks for the help!

Ah, I just realized why the AC97 vs. HD audio BIOS setting may have fixed it for Olmba, and yet another reason why audio in general may cause this problem, but it is not necessarily the solution.

Dutch Baron, not all motherboards have the AC97/HD audio setting in the BIOS because not all motherboards have both HD and AC97 support. This setting tells the motherboard which type of audio connector you have used to connect the PC case front panel audio jacks to the motherboard (exactly as you suggest). I believe I've seen that the same connector is used for both AC97 and HD, but the pinouts are are changed by the BIOS setting. Or there are two connectors, and the AC97/HD setting tells the motherboard which connector you have enabled. Regardless, if you have an AC97 cable connected to the audio connector set in HD mode, or vice versa, signals will be crossed and might cause confusion for the on board audio. That confusion can cause a DirectX event (like thinking you inserted or removed a mic or headphone), which causes DCS to pause and do a re-init.

Again, this is just one of many possible things that can cause a DirectX event, but the problem is still that DCS is reacting poorly to them by pausing and re-initializing all USB devices.

I would have thought that completely disabling the on board audio would stop this regardless of HD or AC97 mode and crossed wires. In my case, disabling the onboard Realtek audio in the BIOS did not affect the problem at all. But I will check the AC97/HD settings on my PC and see what I find. Thanks for this great info!

I finally got around to looking at the AC97/HD connector on my motherboard. Mine is a dual AC97/HD capable connector. Most motherboards from the last 15 years and most computer cases also support HD audio for the front panel connectors. But the way to configure it one way or the other (AC97 mode vs. HD mode) is to simply turn off the jack insertion auto-detection feature in the Reaktek Audio driver (the little Realtek speak icon in the lower right corner in Windows).

This isn't a new idea as we all discussed this previously, and how disabling this feature (basically enabling AC97 mode) does not conclusively fix the problem in DCS unless it is a case that your front panel audio jacks are screwed up. I.e. if your headphone hack has a broken "insertion detection" switch, that could absolutely result in a DirectX reset which causes the pause in DCS. But that's caused by a mechanical problem. You can solve it by turning off the auto insert detection feature in the Realtek driver which effectively turns your audio connector in to an AC97 connector, or fix your bad connector.

Anyway, the question was, if you plug an AC97 connector into the AC97/HD connector configured in HD mode, would it cause problems? Maybe, but again, many of us already discussed and tested the solution to this problem. Disable auto-detect. But that does not solve the problem for all people or all cases.