Mk20 Rockeye fixing

Any word about fixing the Rockeye damage model/effects? They seem pointless to carry on the Harrier/Hornet.

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+1

Now I'm using the Harrier instead of the SU-25, I'm kinda needing those to work. I can only carry four Maverick's. But a cluster bomb give me other options. They don't even seem to damage AAA ground units.

all the best

Might be that a Rockeye update will have to wait for a bigger damage model update ... :/

Bump.... any word on this? Seems to be pretty vital for both Hornet and Harrier.

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I think the bug has something to do with it not calculating for heights. I noticed from carpet bomb testing, if you use auto/CCRP and set a waypoint at the front of a column of vehicles and drop from ~1000 ft AGL, you can get a good carpet bombing. If you set the waypoint to the back of end of the column of vehicles you want to bomb at ~500 AGL. This changes if you change the bombs function height so the test is using default.

However, if you bomb out side either of these heights you will miss massively which to me seems like the continuously calculated release point is not functioning or not setup for the Rockeyes or the CBU-99's.

I haven't tested much with these using CCIP. I have dropped these using CCIP mode in both the Harrier and the Hornet, but I remember hitting my targets usually. I would have to test again to see if my memory is good though.

I could also be that the CCIP modes in DCS calculate the impact point for the capsule (so it would have hit if it doesn't deploy the bomblets), but as the bomblets deploy, they hit short?

(my dumb drop cluster bombs always drop short)

//Jarl

I haven't used them in the Harrier recently, but both Auto and CCIP are a combination of misses or ineffective hits in the Hornet. Yet my AI wingman scores some kills with Rockeyes on T-55s with just one pass.

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Just finished some testing.

Did a couple passes using the Harrier to carpet bomb a line of fuel trucks. Unfortunately found out the Harriers intervals are still not working so now I remember why I wasn't using the Rockeyes on the Harrier either.

F-18 I tested both CBU-99's and Rockeyes many times, both bombs have exact same characteristics. I swear I saw somewhere on one of the models where you could set the function height but didn't see where I found that. I thought I saw at some point the default setting was about 300 feet.

Test at the height before you are given the impact warning which is between 1800-2000 AGL I think I saw. Impact was way before target point.

Test at 1000 feet release, impact started before the line of trucks, using 10 bombs, it would be about the 5th or 6th bomb that hit the first trucks.

Test at 600 feet release (I think lower than 500 is getting to close to the invalid fusing point). First bomblets exploded near first truck and last bomb hit a few trucks before the end of a 20 truck line. Was using 225 foot intervals.

I then tested CCIP drops. I could swear I was getting some really good pickles but looking back it seems I always came up short or before the pickle point.

I don't know enough about manual drops, but used what I learned from the F-5E tutorials and used a 80 mil offset and the 5000 rollin, 3500 release, 20 degree dive angle method and I seem to hit every time. So I think CCIP might not be working either, however I don't know if F-18 manual bombing is same as describe for the F-5E, but seeing as how I was hitting my targets well it seems to work.

I have previously done lots of CBU-97 carpet bombing runs in the A-10C as well as CBU-87's. From personal experience the CBU-97 seems to have a minimum 900 foot height of function. Any lower and the bomblets don't release well. But if I set my SPI in the middle of a line of vehicles then go line myself up for a run using CCRP, as long as I'm at 1000+ feet AGL height doesn't matter unless wind is on, CCRP figures out the release points. If say I use 5 CBU-97's, the 3rd bomb always looks to hit the spot my SPI at. If I use 7 CBU-97's then the 5th always hits the SPI target area. Same goes for the CBU-87's except I usually go lower function height since the bomblets are pretty week even against light armor, but the 3rd, 5th, 7th etc bombs dispersal is always hit in the SPI location.

On that note, i don't know if the A-10C is correct either. I'm just a guy who loves simulators, so a real pilot would have to say if the A-10C is a correct comparison.

I tested as well. You can set the height using the VT mech fuze, just push the HT button on bottom left to change it. I tested with the height setting from 300 feet to 3000 with Rockeyes and CCIP still does not work. Way off. The Mk84s are dead on, but 99's and 20's are still busted.

Chizh mentioned on a recent newsletter that they are looking to improve cansiter munitions accuracy, at least on the f-18.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=15

and wags mentioned the issue is solved on an internal build, still not avaiable on either release or beta branch however.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=194412&page=7

Chizh mentioned on a recent newsletter that they are looking to improve cansiter munitions accuracy, at least on the f-18.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=15

 

and wags mentioned the issue is solved on an internal build, still not avaiable on either release or beta branch however.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=194412&page=7

Super!

//Jarl

all cluster is basically useless, save CBU-97 which is hammer of god tier effective.

two reasons for this generally:

units, especially light units seem way too tough- BMP-1s can be penetrated by .50 cal and yet bunch of cluster explosions do negligible damage

game itself has a bizarre fixation with extremely high-tier units, while neglecting any sort of low-tier ones. BTR-80/BMP-2/3(!) which overmatch most airplanes in the sim at this point, but no BTR40/50/60/70 (which would be any force that isn't a frontline russian unit) no machine gun tripods, no man portable ATGM units, no syrian-style improvised artillery/mortars, very few conventional iron-sighted AAA, etc etc.

almost everything you are dropping MK-20D on are much newer than that bomb, and even those things are probably more durable than they have any right to be. since there's no penetration or crew modeling ends up being a big ol' health brick that can soak what would probably spall half the crew.

regular iron bombs suffer similarly, but at least have one mid-sized+ explosion so if you get close enough you will damage it, whereas a thousand tiny explosions are laughed off unless you are very lucky.

they dropped thousands of these things in GW1 and presumably they killed stuff with them so the fact that they have basically 0 effectiveness ingame seems a little odd to me.

Chizh mentioned on a recent newsletter that they are looking to improve cansiter munitions accuracy, at least on the f-18.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=15

 

and wags mentioned the issue is solved on an internal build, still not avaiable on either release or beta branch however.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=194412&page=7

Thanks for finding information Shalashaka. Unfortunately Wigs video doesn't show if Auto/CCRP mode of use will work properly.

all cluster is basically useless, save CBU-97 which is hammer of god tier effective.

I did some testing, seems the Mk-20RE, CBU-99 work just fine against BMP-3, BMP-2, BTR-80, BTR-RD's, BTR-Cobra's, etc. Made a video :)

that's a very strange test case- low level attack with 6(?) CBU against non-dispersed packed target with v. low burst height and literally every square millimeter of ground has a bomblet hit it. still ~50%(?) kill rate.

i don't know if this really proves your point senpai.

that's a very strange test case- low level attack with 6(?) CBU against non-dispersed packed target with v. low burst height and literally every square millimeter of ground has a bomblet hit it. still ~50%(?) kill rate.

The low level high speed was to avoid as much ground to air fire as much as possible. I would never attempt that in an A-10, it would never survive. With auto mode of bombing not calculating for height changes, I had to do 500 or 700 feet above ground to make the test work for see if any vehicles of those types were able to withstand the damage from the bomblets. Point is, the the two bomb types do some damage against light armored vehicles. But I don't know how effective CBU-99's or Rockeyes are in real life, so for me, ~50% seems pretty good. There were 50 units, 10 of each type and there was 23 vehicles destroyed.

With the patch today I am going to try some drops with HOF set higher. This should hopefully result in more units being destroyed. But this depends on if Auto was fixed with the accuracy fix.

I also had the release interval to big, so ~1/2 munitions were outside the target area.

many of these vehicles can be punctured by machine gun (12.7/14mm) so surviving a hellstorm of superconcentrated shrapnel (not to mention heat, spall, general noise & chaos etc) seems a little odd.

at the very least the crew of many of them would be 100% dead even if the vehicle didn't cook off.

but this is an unrealistic test (at least, the part where they are super concentrated) do the same test against a single LAV and the pK is going to be probably pretty low. which is ridiculous to me personally but maybe no one else.

many of these vehicles can be punctured by machine gun (12.7/14mm) so surviving a hellstorm of superconcentrated shrapnel (not to mention heat, spall, general noise & chaos etc) seems a little odd.

 

 

at the very least the crew of many of them would be 100% dead even if the vehicle didn't cook off.

 

 

but this is an unrealistic test (at least, the part where they are super concentrated) do the same test against a single LAV and the pK is going to be probably pretty low. which is ridiculous to me personally but maybe no one else.

I know my test is unrealistic, it was just to see what gets destroyed and what doesn't.

I don't know how correct wiki is, but from the description, you are probably correct. Sounds like this particular cluster bomb is made for destroying these types of vehicles with great effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-100_Cluster_Bomb

These two points the post makes seems to support your reasoning.

" It weighs 490 pounds and carries 247 Mk 118 Mod 1 bomblets."

"Each bomblet weighs 1.32 pounds (600 g) and has a 0.4-pound (180 g) shaped-charge warhead of high explosives, which produces up to 250,000 psi (1.7 GPa) at the point of impact, allowing penetration of approximately 7.5 inches (190 mm) of armor. Rockeye is most efficiently used against area targets requiring penetration to kill."

So dropping 8x CBU-99 = 1,976 M118 bomblets. Seems likely many of those bomblets are going to be effective.

My findings exactly. Only effective against light armor. Any SAM or AAA doesn’t get a scratch. I didn’t even bother with any tanks. If an SA8 doesn’t get damaged certainly a tank will be the same.

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My findings exactly. Only effective against light armor. Any SAM or AAA doesn’t get a scratch. I didn’t even bother with any tanks. If an SA8 doesn’t get damaged certainly a tank will be the same.

 

 

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I didn't test on SAM sites but I could see them being used if the sites were used up. Not sure if AA sites run out of ammo, however, I know you can fly over them low and fast and they can't track you. Not sure how realistic that is either, but you could drop cluster bombs from 500 ft on them :).

Was testing today with AUTO targeted runs. Seems AUTO targeting isn't working for these either, so they only fixed CCIP. Was going to make a video to show this, but when I do the higher altitude attacks its hard to show my target, so I'm making a mission with bullseyes made of smoke and fire :)

Mk20 Rockeye fixing

I didn't test on SAM sites but I could see them being used if the sites were used up. Not sure if AA sites run out of ammo, however, I know you can fly over them low and fast and they can't track you. Not sure how realistic that is either, but you could drop cluster bombs from 500 ft on them :).

 

Was testing today with AUTO targeted runs. Seems AUTO targeting isn't working for these either, so they only fixed CCIP. Was going to make a video to show this, but when I do the higher altitude attacks its hard to show my target, so I'm making a mission with bullseyes made of smoke and fire :)

Again, it's not a realistic attack from what I did, but still proves the point that the lethality of the mk20s is still not 100%. I'm not saying they should be a kill all weapon, but still seems inaccurate and has the effect of throwing "water balloons" at armored vehicles.

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it's not even 50% with 8(?) bombs

it's probably around 10% pK even with this experiment which seems designed to exaggerate it (where one bomb could theoretically affect 20+ targets whereas best case is usually 10 in AoE of bomb at best)

it's not even 50% with 8(?) bombs

 

 

it's probably around 10% pK even with this experiment which seems designed to exaggerate it (where one bomb could theoretically affect 20+ targets whereas best case is usually 10 in AoE of bomb at best)

Like I said, it was 8 bombs and only 1/2 hit inside the target area, so 4 bombs hit the vehicles, so 23 kills with 4 bombs is probably not to bad.

Was making my target rings to make it quicker to see where the bomb is supposed to hit and on a run I decided to fly in slow. I used a single SPG inside the circle and at 350kias, auto release mode, waypoint set directly on top of the SPG , released at 2000 ft AGL I had a direct hit. So I went in for another run at 450 kias and 4500 ft AGL the bomb only slightly missed. So I think it is just that if your traveling to fast that auto mode can't calculate.

I will link a video when I get it all finished. Plan to test with ~500 ft AGL, ~1000 ft AGL, ~2500 ft AGL and ~4500-5000 ft AGL. But I think they will all hit if I am going slow enough.

So far though when the bombs hit the targets they kill... I will try to test on a SAM and AA, I'll just have to setup the SAM site near a mountain side so I can burn off its missiles before the attack run.

Like I said, it was 8 bombs and only 1/2 hit inside the target area, so 4 bombs hit the vehicles, so 23 kills with 4 bombs is probably not to bad.

 

 

 

Was making my target rings to make it quicker to see where the bomb is supposed to hit and on a run I decided to fly in slow. I used a single SPG inside the circle and at 350kias, auto release mode, waypoint set directly on top of the SPG , released at 2000 ft AGL I had a direct hit. So I went in for another run at 450 kias and 4500 ft AGL the bomb only slightly missed. So I think it is just that if your traveling to fast that auto mode can't calculate.

 

 

 

I will link a video when I get it all finished. Plan to test with ~500 ft AGL, ~1000 ft AGL, ~2500 ft AGL and ~4500-5000 ft AGL. But I think they will all hit if I am going slow enough.

 

 

 

So far though when the bombs hit the targets they kill... I will try to test on a SAM and AA, I'll just have to setup the SAM site near a mountain side so I can burn off its missiles before the attack run.

Or just set sam AI off and you can test all day long...

:)

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Like I said, it was 8 bombs and only 1/2 hit inside the target area, so 4 bombs hit the vehicles, so 23 kills with 4 bombs is probably not to bad.

 

 

 

Was making my target rings to make it quicker to see where the bomb is supposed to hit and on a run I decided to fly in slow. I used a single SPG inside the circle and at 350kias, auto release mode, waypoint set directly on top of the SPG , released at 2000 ft AGL I had a direct hit. So I went in for another run at 450 kias and 4500 ft AGL the bomb only slightly missed. So I think it is just that if your traveling to fast that auto mode can't calculate.

 

 

 

I will link a video when I get it all finished. Plan to test with ~500 ft AGL, ~1000 ft AGL, ~2500 ft AGL and ~4500-5000 ft AGL. But I think they will all hit if I am going slow enough.

 

 

 

So far though when the bombs hit the targets they kill... I will try to test on a SAM and AA, I'll just have to setup the SAM site near a mountain side so I can burn off its missiles before the attack run.

Interesting. I’d like to see the results!

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Mk20 Rockeye fixing

Or just set sam AI off and you can test all day long...

 

 

 

 

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That’s what I did. Weapons Hold and disperse reaction OFF for everything on the range gives you stress free releases for weapons testing.

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