Current state of M2000c

Hey guys,

with the current sale, I'm going to be getting a new plane to fly around...

That being said I'm torn between the Mig21 and the M2000c.

they are both planes I've been wanting to get and just waiting on a sale...

I have a thread/poll about what I want to get, this isn't about that. This post is about the current state and future of the M2c. I've read stuff here and youtube comments (primarily on Mig19 video comments) that was bashing razbam about never finishing the m2 and leaving the customers with an unfinished plane.

What is unfinished on this plane? I see so many people flying it, but what isn't done on this plane that takes the fun out of flying? I just heard that for BVR figthing, you must STT (kinda like hornet right now) and no TWS soft locks etc, what else is there? Something wrong with BFM? avionics too basic and no complete? What is it? Why are people bitching?

from what I understand the Mig 21 is pretty much finished and complete.

I don't want to get a module that is forgotten... I see they have a roadmap up there for somethings they are going to do. I hope they do...

anyways, can someone give me some insight on this before I spend my 30 bucks? :lol:

Hi,

Imho it’s a great module and razbam has published a roadmap to update some aspects.

The free campaign from baltic dragon is very good,

Mig 21 is good , but it’s the genration before ( the actual plane i mean) . I am not sure the campaign plays ok in 2.5,

In short, I would go for mirage.

:-)

Hi,

About TWS and STT: the RDI radar + Super 530D missile is a Fox 1 weapon system.

So at the end of the day, even with TWS bug fixed, you will still have to maintain STT lock until missile impact to get the kill, like Su-27 and MiG-29A for instance.

The TWS bug appears when you use sectoral scan (less than 120° scan).

Fox 1 was the main BVR weapon system during the Cold War.

F-15 and F/A -18 started with AIM-7 Sparrow Fox 1 missile.

But since they were upgraded with AIM-120 Fox 3 missiles, many people seem to forget about Fox 1. It's a matter of game style.

If you want to play a Cold War type of game, Mirage 2000C is at home. And with Fox 1 you should play with buddies as wingmen.

If you want to play alone and be competitive in free for all type of game, better get the Hornet.

Bugs:

Some systems were left in unsatisfactory state (not accurate enough, or bugged).

A part of that is due to few documentation available for that plane.

But it has been solved by agreement with French Air Force active squadron. So can hope to see improvements in the next 6 months.

Yes there are bugs, it takes time to solve, but Razbam hasn't given up on the module, despite what some people say.

Recently some new bugs seem to appear, on system that weren't touched by Razbam (or at least not announced, like radar altimeter).

I assume that these are due to DCS World code changes.

Despite bugs, Mirage 2000C is more lethal than MiG-21 and has more interesting navigation systems.

Why are people bitching?

I havent flown the Mirage in a while but i actually can not say that there is something gamebreaking inside. On the other hand, i don't know every system down to the bone and some systems and procedures i didnt even touch yet.

I think, the main reason why people are upset is the Harrier, more than the Mirage. Personally, the Harrier's current state and quality is also not to my satisfaction and subpar compared to other modules. But who am i to complain about an early access module, right? I know the terms and conditions and i play the ball towards RAZBAM and expect them to complete it. Furthermore, it seems that they have learned from their mistakes and didn't release the Mig19 yet, because they decided the module's quality was not to their satisfaction.

Apart from that, M2k and MiG21 are both good modules, both offer great fun, also in multiplayer.

Just wondering why some of these bugs still haven't been fixed. This is now a 3 year old module?

if the TWS bug has been known for a while (what does the bug do? crash radar? game? no return?)

I think I'm going to get the M2 just because it will fit my play style more, but those are the things I was concerned about.

I know mig is alot of fun to fly from what others have told me, and is considered a final and complete product

TWS bug just drop the lock.

TWS bug just drop the lock.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Yes the bug is known. Like I said, since they decided to dedicate a period of time to finish the module with French Air Force input, I think we'll have to wait for that work to start.

However, TWS works fine if you use 120° scan, and when you shoot Super 530D STT is enforced.

Well I'm glad they are doing that. I think I'm going to do the M2 for my purchase. Thanks!

I don't know about the 120 or whatever else is out there, guess I got learning to do lol

Like most AA fighters you can select the radar scan width.

Full scan is 120°, but you can select 60° or 30° to increase refresh rate or to avoid being spotted by too many other fighters' RWR.

The current TWS bug happens when you select 60° or 30° and put the locked contact on one side.

Mike most AA fighters you can select the radar scan width.

Full scan is 120°, but you can select 60° or 30° to increase refresh rate or to avoid being spotted by too many other fighters' RWR.

 

The current TWS bug happens when you select 60° or 30° and put the locked contact on the one side.

ahhh ok, gotcha!

I've been reading that midlife upgrade post. Pretty interesting stuff. I'm curious how that'll turn out.

Well guys, I got the M2000... Lot of learnig curve, it's neither like the russian or the us planes...

I did some of the training and there were bugs (like the a2a combat would not go further after I dropped fuel tank and switched off a2a limiter) and no take off mission to show me when to rotate etc.

also the training missions are made with french cockpit in mind when I had already switched to english.

I will go over chuck's guide tomorrow see if that helps. plane is very agile though. reminds me of a high tech F5 with more power.

I like the M2k too. It is very pleasant to fly. I like the navigation system a lot. You will surely have your joy with the Mirage.

I was fascinated by the Mig-21 for quite a long time, until I got to know the Mirage.

For me, that was the purchase argument, navigation device with which waypoints can be flown, LGB's and air refuelling.

I also like the engine sound of the Mirage.

I'm also eagerly awaiting the new changes that will take place.

Let us not forget the most important bit of flying the M-2000: Pretending to be these guys!;):lol:

Actually a really fun flying movie, very... French lol. Some really stunning camera work too, apparently they modified one of the M2000 droptanks to have a camera facing backwards, forwards and sideways I think. Of course the storyline is complete nonsense but it’s good fun :D. Perfect double-bill with Top Gun.

Dassault did modified a 2000L wing tank for the movie.

It was fitted to a twin seat Mirage 2000B, the camera guy was in the back seat.

Two of the pilots participating in the movie (there were many more) were Rallet and Prats, the two last solo display pilots.

And guys, the Mirage 2000 solo display was really awesome. :thumbup:

You can see the pod and footage from the Mirage 2000B back seat in this video.

Yes, the movie story was bit cheesy, but the aerial footage are second to none.

That was cool to watch!

So I flew enough today to make sense of few systems to get me in an online server...

Well, My tactics blow because F15s kept having me for lunch. They would shoot pair of 120Cs at me, and I kept getting my ass whooped. They were doing it with a soft lock as well (never fly red usually, so I don't know how they act when you're the one eating them) cuz I wouldn't know a missile was coming until it went pitbull on me.

I feel bad for our real life enemies who have to face a 120C (or the newer 120D)... lol

I couldn't even get close enough to take the shot. It will be interesting with the F14 where there will be no 120 either... I probably need to change my skills and fly low with radar aimed up instead of at 25K looking for stuff to blow up lol.

That being said, i added the eclair and programmed the panic buttons for CMs... I had it on auto and man, but could not get them to dispense... in the instant action, as long as it was on, I was able to dispense... what gives?

and does the PCM for the jammer work?

AUTO decoy dispense doesn't work.

Put the PCM knob in the middle position and the HOTAS command will toggle jammer transmission.

Being Fox 1 shooter, you are at disadvantage VS Fox 3 shooter.

Better not fly alone, try to engage 2 Vs 1 in your favor.

You can train to escape AIM-120 against AI in solo flight.

To try to make F-15 life more difficult, once you spot F-15, keep at least M0.9, by 25Nm put the Eagle offset by 50°.

You can reverse from left to right to approach in S.

If you're flying offset by 50° and you detect the "M" of the AIM-120 on RWR, it will be leading ahead of you.

So reverse in full AB, you may need to reverse a second time.

It will work better diving.

Practice the timing in solo.

The closer you are, the more frequently you need to reverse the turns. And you need to keep you energy high. If you get slow you're dead.

Below 10Nm you're in no escape zone, so you're in troubles.

You should try to launch your Super 530D between the 10Nm to 20Nm.

This is risky approach, but if you practice, it can work.

If you're 2 Vs 1, one can distract the Eagle, while the other one hide in the beam (below the Eagle, trajectory 90° of his radar beam) and recommit with Fox 1 close in look up and outside his radar cone.

To summarize: you will have an easier life flying blue side

...or not with MiG-29S/ J-11A and their R-77 :lol:

Hi everyone,

similarly to the OP I’m thinking about buying the Mirage in the sale , but me too am worried about the state of it.

Jojo thank you for your answers so far, they made a bit clearer picture of the Mirage state.

However then again I read statements ( in the Limit EA to 1 year ? Thread) like this, quote:

“M2K... released 2015, INS bombing -> doesn't work, CCRP release cue -> doesnt work, requried course on target -> doesn't work, INS allignment -> doesn't work as intended, and many other bugs... But we have got a new Pilot body. And somehow it went out of beta so I guess considered finished. I see Harrier going the same direction and this is why this thread exist. This approach should be avoided.”

Is this still the case, because it makes the aircraft sound rather bugged and makes me hesitate in buying.

If you or someone else could comment on these points that would be very nice.

Thank you,

Kind regards,

Snappy

Hi everyone,

 

similarly to the OP I’m thinking about buying the Mirage in the sale , but me too am worried about the state of it.

Jojo thank you for your answers so far, they made a bit clearer picture of the Mirage state.

However then again I read statements ( in the Limit EA to 1 year ? Thread) like this, quote:

 

 

“M2K... released 2015, INS bombing -> doesn't work, CCRP release cue -> doesnt work, requried course on target -> doesn't work, INS allignment -> doesn't work as intended, and many other bugs... But we have got a new Pilot body. And somehow it went out of beta so I guess considered finished. I see Harrier going the same direction and this is why this thread exist. This approach should be avoided.”

 

 

Is this still the case, because it makes the aircraft sound rather bugged and makes me hesitate in buying.

 

 

If you or someone else could comment on these points that would be very nice.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Snappy

*CCPL = CCRP, but I prefer to use French acronym, because when calling CCRP people expect US like system, and it isn't.

*PI = Point Initial.

INS bombing = CCPL + PI -> doesn't work,

The bomb auto-release doesn't work.

CCRP release cue = CCPL -> doesnt work,

It does work, but someone recently confused CCPL and CCPL + PI.

requried course on target -> doesn't work,

true

INS allignment -> doesn't work as intended,

It doesn't fail as it should if you goof around. But nothing prevent you from running the procedure correctly.

But we have got a new Pilot body.

The system coder does his stuff, the 3D guy does his stuff

And somehow it went out of beta so I guess considered finished

The glass is half empty/ half full here.

On one hand people are upset because it went out of early access and some bugs are still here.

On the other hand, work has been done on it since out of early access, even if at slower rate. And Razbam has plans to resume to work on it at full steam in near future.

So even if not fast enough, it isn't over yet.

You can do AA, minus 1 bug: sectoral TWS.

You can align INS and use it for navigation, edit waypoints, input new waypoint. You can display waypoint on radar screen and use one of them as bullseye reference.

The INS can be affected by drift. Bug: the INS update procedure is too simplified, so better not use drift or don't try to update.

You can use TACAN/ VOR/ ILS systems.

You can manage 2 radio systems (V/UHF manual and preset + UHF preset).

You can use distinctive auto-pilot system, with ILS capture mode. Bug: runway synthetic display. Better not to trust it too much. But LOC/ GLIDE are good.

AG: CCPL and CCPI ok (low/ high drag bombs, AG gun and rockets). Bug CCPL + PI.

So if you build your mission on what does work, you can already do some realistic missions. (I write this based on reading about journalist flying in air defense training mission or from pilots/ WSO stories from Mirage 2000C & N).

Hi everyone,

 

Is this still the case, because it makes the aircraft sound rather bugged and makes me hesitate in buying.

 

 

If you or someone else could comment on these points that would be very nice.

Mirage is definitely in better shape than the Harrier, I'd say it's on par with other DCS aircraft, each of them has some bugs. But Razbam being Razbam, I wouldn't expect them to fix the known issues any time soon.

Yes, there's talk about systems overhaul, but that was mentioned even in 2017, planned before the end of 2018, then the first batch of fixes was expected in January 2019, and now, well, no one really knows...

Mirage is definitely worth a buy instead of the Harrier.

It is true, there are some features missing and there are some bugs, but over all you can do 100% of what that thing was intend to do (fast interceptor) and more or less also bombing.

It was my first module and I still love to fly it today. Of course I hope that they will fix out the actual bugs, but honestly, with most of the bugs you can live.

I don't own the Mig21 so I may not be able to do a good comparsion, but what I love about the M2000 is the IFF and TWS function. Especially in MP this is awesome.

For me personaly speaking, the Mirage is some kind of perfect balance between a flying server rack and a old steam machine ;).

This is a Cold War 4th Gen fighter.

The Hornet is a Cold War 4th Gen jet too, but ED is making one with all post Cold War cool gadgets :D

Ok

thank you all for your replies,especially you jojo for your detailed point by point breakdowns of the quoted bugs.

That definitely helps in getting a better picture of this product, when deciding whether to buy it or not.

Thank you,

Kind regards,

Snappy

This is a Cold War 4th Gen fighter.

 

The Hornet is a Cold War 4th Gen jet too, but ED is making one with all post Cold War cool gadgets :D

That is true, but do A2A refueling with both and you will see the difference in those two FBW system. And then go heads on with both. You have to be pretty mutch notching to survive long enough to fire one 530.

But when it comes down to the guns (except the f18 had no 9X loaded before), I would say it could be a bad day for a Hornet ;).

Yes, it's sure that if you load 10 AIM-120 on the Hornet, anyone would have a bad day 1 Vs 1.

But during Desert Storm in 1991, the Hornet used AIM-7 and even scored kills with it. So did the Eagle.

So it's a matter of time era.

There are some servers more historically oriented, with restrictions on weapons.

So use the Mirage 2000 on Blue Side, with AWACS support, fly at least in pair (or more) and if possible on servers without Fox 3 and you will have a less difficult start.

Some people use the Mirage 2000C as better OPFOR against US fighters. But it wasn't design to take down US Fox 3 shooters.