flameoutme Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) I own a large number of DCS airplanes (and one helo), and enjoy many of them. But the F-86 to me is the most enjoyable of all. I aim to explain why. If you are considering investing time and money in the DCS/ Belsimtek F-86 I hope my comments provide some useful info for consideration. Simmers come in all sizes and shapes and backgrounds and preferences and skill levels. So I don't mean for one minute to imply that if you like other planes better that you are some how mistaken. Not the case at all. I fly in VR only using a RIFT S headset. I have a "Buttkicker" and I play radio chatter in the background for immersion. (Could not be simpler to do, BTW, if want to know, ask.). I also use VoiceAttack to supplement my Hotas set up which is the Thrust master Warthog joystick and the Thrust master TWCS throttle. (I feel this throttle is better for VR unless you need multiple sticks). OK, 'nuf of that. The first reason I love the DCS F-86 is the flight characteristics "feel right". It acts like it has just the right amount of mass. It trims right, too. For example, after dropping a bomb you'll sense the need to alter the trim. The airbrake"feels right" in its effect as well. It takes off well and lands well. Its engine takes time to spool up (apparently, like the real thing). So you have to learn to finesse it especially at lower speeds which is both doable and a lot of fun. As this was a post WWII /50's jet you are not strapped into a flying bullet with electronics that rival the Space Shuttle. The systems are far, far more simple and basic. You do have a computer driven pipper (no doubt analog driven), but that's it. But that's the beauty of it. The systems can be learned. Personally, I find it hard to learn the modern airplanes ('tho I enjoy them too), because there's just so much to learn - and when you throw in ongoing changes that don't make their way all the time into updated tutorials - well that's a recipe for frustration. Not so with the F-86. The radar system, for example (it has one of sorts), could not be any simpler. That's just the way things were in the 50's. And that also means that as a pilot your basic skills of holding the airplane on target, and doing the few switches and dials required for flying, defending or attacking are within most people's grasp. And you can view tutorials made years ago with some confidence that they won't be another frustration recipe. There are two campaigns I know of for the '86. The first is the museum relic campaign. Personally, I am not enamored by the title because it caused me not to even look at it for a long, long time. And THAT caused me to not buy the F-86 for a long, long time. But I am glad I did. The museum relic campaign is BRILLIANT in how it runs a story happening today with a plane from 60-70 years ago. You can read up on it, but whomever crafted the basic story did a great job. Enjoy! The other campaign simulates conflict during the korean war. You can read the details on "Hunters of the Yula". It is, unfortunately, not available on Steam at this time. But I am counting the days. So, let me say in summary, the F-86 is a simpler plane to learn because it is from a simpler, almost "innocent" time. And its flight model and systems make it a joy to operate. It may not be the belle of the ball, but it will turn some heads still. I love it. Thanks DCS/Belsimtek! Edited June 27, 2020 by flameoutme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbosmeggins Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Thanks for the great write up. You’ve definitely got my interest piqued. Watched a few YouTube videos after reading your impressions, and I must say the Sabre looks great. I’m not one for the ultra-complex modern jets either. As much as I find them impressive, it’s just information overload as far as I’m concerned. The Sabre looks like just the right level of difficulty. Enough to give me a challenge, without overwhelming me. Given that the sale is on, I shall grab both the Sabre, and the campaign that you recommended too. I purposely didn’t look up the campaign on YouTube as I prefer to watch things unravel as I play. No point spoiling any surprises. I’ll probably grab these in the morning, so shall be secretly praying for rain, and an excuse to have a good session. I did look at the other campaign, but that requires the WWII Assets Pack, and I’m not cluttering up the hard drive with that if I can help it. So, once again, thanks for the slab of text. It made for great reading :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 The Sabre is a joy to fly. It is cool to have both the F-86 and MiG-15 to see how two aircraft designed around the same time with almost the same performance fly so very differently. The MiG-15 may have better acceleration and climb due to its superior power-to-weight, but the F-86 simultaneously feels both more agile and more stable: much easier to fly, especially in a dogfight. As for the F-86F being the best DCS module, I would put the F-5E right up there with it: just as easy to fly and just as simple of controls. I have quite a few hours in both of them. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbosmeggins Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Well, I’ve taken the plunge and ordered it. Just waiting for my housemate to piss off out now, so I can download it, and have a good, uninterrupted session. Splashed out on the campaign too, but shan’t be playing that for some time, as I have much learning to do first. Wish me luck :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Well, I’ve taken the plunge and ordered it. Just waiting for my housemate to piss off out now, so I can download it, and have a good, uninterrupted session. Splashed out on the campaign too, but shan’t be playing that for some time, as I have much learning to do first. Wish me luck :D Hey have some great times. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiffy Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 The Sabre is a great ship. You may want to tweak you M3 50s though. The updated APIT rounds are better but not great. Use an editor like Notepad++ to reduce the barrel heat and warp effect by about 75% in the F-86.lua. Look at the equation and make the changes there. Then in the shelltable.lua in the scripts-database-weapons folder, find the M2: ##shell("M2_50_aero_AP", _("M2_50_aero_AP") and ##shell("M20_50_aero_APIT", _("M20_50_aero_APIT") and edit the v0 to this: ##v0 = 883, for a more realistic muzzle velocity for engaging jets. Adjust your seat height up several clicks so you can see down over the nose some more Then forget the pipper and use the tracers to see your "hose arc" and dead eye marksman your own solutions. Also add bullet life to 9: ##life_time = 9.0 back in the 86.lua, extend the effective fire range out to this: ##tbl.effective_fire_distance = 2100 The result is very satisfying without being overkill. Especially being able to snipe leading shots from large distances which is a benefit of a machine gun over cannon. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] It's perfectly ordinary banter Squiffy, "Bally Jerry, pranged his kite, right in the 'how's your father.'" - Monty Python, RAF Banter Sketch. Squiffy, a. slang. 1. Intoxicated; drunk. 2. Askew, skew-whiff. - OED "Put that sucker in a 4G turn and keep it there!!" - Maj. Gen. "Boots" Blesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger82 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 The Sabre is a great ship. You may want to tweak you M3 50s though. The updated APIT rounds are better but not great. Use an editor like Notepad++ to reduce the barrel heat and warp effect by about 75% in the F-86.lua. Look at the equation and make the changes there. Then in the shelltable.lua in the scripts-database-weapons folder, find the M2: ##shell("M2_50_aero_AP", _("M2_50_aero_AP") and ##shell("M20_50_aero_APIT", _("M20_50_aero_APIT") and edit the v0 to this: ##v0 = 883, for a more realistic muzzle velocity for engaging jets. Adjust your seat height up several clicks so you can see down over the nose some more Then forget the pipper and use the tracers to see your "hose arc" and dead eye marksman your own solutions. Also add bullet life to 9: ##life_time = 9.0 back in the 86.lua, extend the effective fire range out to this: ##tbl.effective_fire_distance = 2100 The result is very satisfying without being overkill. Especially being able to snipe leading shots from large distances which is a benefit of a machine gun over cannon. Hopefully muzzle velocity and gun dispersion due to overheating will be fixed soon. It’s a real shame pipper doesn’t work as it’s supposed to. It should give accurate lead when tracking a target in constant turn. I’m afraid it won’t be fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 @Squiffy & @avenger82 - are there detailed discussions on these issues elsewhere? It's probably because I am such a novice shot - I did not know it wasn't working. Would like to read up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger82 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 @Squiffy & @avenger82 - are there detailed discussions on these issues elsewhere? It's probably because I am such a novice shot - I did not know it wasn't working. Would like to read up on it. Here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4399739#post4399739 and here about gunsight not correctly calculating lead: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=274923&page=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbosmeggins Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Well, I am working my way through the training missions and really enjoying this module. In fact, I think it is my new favourite plane now. I’ve been flying the F-5 a lot lately, and really enjoyed the flight model, but the Sabre seems to have so much more personality about it. And, should you push it hard, it really comes alive, and is an incredible handful. I totally suck at old-school navigation, so need to spend some time drumming that into my inept brain. But wow! And it’s superb in VR. I’ve watched one or two reviews where the graphics have been slated a bit, but it fits my needs perfectly. I’m hoping to buy one of Andre’s Jet-Seat gizmos in the next week or so, and cannot think of a better reason than the Sabre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Well, I am working my way through the training missions and really enjoying this module. In fact, I think it is my new favourite plane now. I’ve been flying the F-5 a lot lately, and really enjoyed the flight model, but the Sabre seems to have so much more personality about it. And, should you push it hard, it really comes alive, and is an incredible handful. I totally suck at old-school navigation, so need to spend some time drumming that into my inept brain. But wow! And it’s superb in VR. I’ve watched one or two reviews where the graphics have been slated a bit, but it fits my needs perfectly. I’m hoping to buy one of Andre’s Jet-Seat gizmos in the next week or so, and cannot think of a better reason than the Sabre. Yeah it is great isn't it! And I think graphically it is better than fine. I was hoping at some point to get one of those seats. As of right now, I am using a Buttkicker 2. Definately immersion adding. have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbosmeggins Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Do you drive it with the SimShaker software? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiffy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Dont't worry, the Sabre is still a good ship. When it come s to dogfighting, you may notice the points above. You will see shotgun like dispersion after a few bursts and not much effective range. After some time to get familiar, the next level will make these points more noticeable. The MiG has crazy strong climb at or near stall and the massive cannon will make the inaccurate machine gun dynamics more apparent. Roll rates are pretty accurate but player control at low speed in the Sabre will be more difficult than AI in the MiG. My worn out Cougar makes this all the worse but you will do a lot of control correction and "opposite lock." My gimbals have an issue at stick back near max where it's not balanced left and right, probably from the weight of the stick and hand creating a bias to the left in wear. I get some roll out at 90' bank which interferes with scissoring and circles. Also the sensors are spiky so I lose full back at end of travel. You have to wiggle the stick or tap it back a few times to clean the contacts and keep the elevator full aft. Most of these issues probably don't occur with new equipment. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] It's perfectly ordinary banter Squiffy, "Bally Jerry, pranged his kite, right in the 'how's your father.'" - Monty Python, RAF Banter Sketch. Squiffy, a. slang. 1. Intoxicated; drunk. 2. Askew, skew-whiff. - OED "Put that sucker in a 4G turn and keep it there!!" - Maj. Gen. "Boots" Blesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Do you drive it with the SimShaker software? No, although I would not mind having it. The buttkicker does have some frequency controls so you can sandwich the range of sound you want translated into vibrations. For the '86, it works beautifully to emulate engine, stalls, gun shots, taxi, takeoff and landing out of teh box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger82 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) Anyone finished Museum Relic F-86 campaign? I'm stuck with a mission 8.6 Scouting Trouble. Soon after command to RTB there's missile warning, I try to turn/evade but always get hit by it and my engine shuts down. I tried it like 4 times. It seems there's nothing I can do, because missile hitting is scripted. It's quite frustrating. Should I try to restart the engine using some trick? EDIT: There's seems to be a workaround: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=198210&page=4 Edited July 3, 2020 by avenger82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harf4ng Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 I love the sabre because of a comics, buck danny, when I was younger :) Not a lot of campaigns for it though, only two... Favorite modules : Huey, F-86F, F14 and P-51D Quest 2, RTX 3080, i7 10700K, 16 Gb of RAM, Pro Flight Trainer PUMA helicopter setup, Warthog HOTAS with two force sensitive stick, custom cockpit and a GS-Cobra dynamic seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 I love the sabre because of a comics, buck danny, when I was younger :) Not a lot of campaigns for it though, only two... Or if you count DCS liberation free add on, probably over a million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimmerdylan Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 The only thing I do not like about the F86 is that the nose of this plane jumps all over the place. It's the only module other then the Mig15 that has this issue for me. I enjoy just flying it around but do not do missions or anything like that in it. The nose is just too jumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 The only thing I do not like about the F86 is that the nose of this plane jumps all over the place. It's the only module other then the Mig15 that has this issue for me. I enjoy just flying it around but do not do missions or anything like that in it. The nose is just too jumpy. The flight model, which I understand is based on real life, starts to do that as you approach mach-1. It does become squirrel. Back off on the throttle and bleed a little speed and that stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 @flameoutme, I too enjoy the Sabre, even though I don't fly her that much at the moment. Enjoyed your write up though. Oddly enough I use almost the exact same setup, except I'm a TrackIR user. She just feels good to fly, can get you both in and out of sticky situations if you don't handle her right. Totally agree with the comments on the MR campaign, Apache600 did a bang up job on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sublime Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 i love the f86. at first I didnt like DCS ww2 and F86s. but if you have a good comp, its amazing. you just need to be able to see contacts at realistic distances, so you need a decent comp otherwise its just low on content. but its a joy to fly and if i could figure out hte dce campaigns... theres a P51 and f86 one. Its easy to start easy to fly , hard to master. also the sample of hunters over the yalu - check it out. the plane shines when you see it put it in its paces in a properly made mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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