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Freezing rain engine shutoff


DeltaMike

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If that worked we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Suspicion it's supposed to be that way, in the sense it's supposed to catch on fire under some circumstances. With the question then being, is that a realistic reflection of the jets capabilities, ie, inoperable at 10 degrees C in the rain. Which I doubt.

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Sorry it was just it wasn't in the post. TBH if it's real freezing rain then you just don't fly. That even includes a B777. But not sure what DCS to model that if it does.

 

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We have ice accretion implemented in our simulation. This will happen when the a/c is exposed to icing conditions (temperatures, OAT or TAT during flight, lower than 10 ºC and present moisture).

If you are flying for long time at a TAT a bit lower than 10 ºC without anti-ice on, ice will accumulate in the engine fan blades, which can cause an engine stall or flameout. You'll have to be careful with the throttle avoiding abrupt power changes, if you are careful you'll be able to continue the flight. If you switch on the engine anti-ice switch, ice will disappear after a while.

At very low temperatures, ice will accumulate rapidly and the icing symptoms will appear in the engine in a few minutes.

Always, when under icing conditions, you should switch on engine anti-ice and ignition continuous.

Roberto "Vibora" Seoane

Alas Rojas

 

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Howdy, thanks for the response! I was with DeltaMike when we were experiencing the failures. It sounds as though the anti-ice should keep things running smoothly under most circumstances then?

 

I made a quick video to highlight what we've been experiencing.

 

Sorry for the poor quality. However, this mission was set with thunderstorms at 10 degrees C. You can see that even with anti-ice and continuous ignition on, the engine fails after ~5 minutes of remaining idle on the ramp. Is that intended?

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Sorry it was just it wasn't in the post. TBH if it's real freezing rain then you just don't fly. That even includes a B777. But not sure what DCS to model that if it does.

 

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This level of realism is part of what makes the C-101 so very appealing

 

We have ice accretion implemented in our simulation. This will happen when the a/c is exposed to icing conditions (temperatures, OAT or TAT during flight, lower than 10 ºC and present moisture).

If you are flying for long time at a TAT a bit lower than 10 ºC without anti-ice on, ice will accumulate in the engine fan blades, which can cause an engine stall or flameout. You'll have to be careful with the throttle avoiding abrupt power changes, if you are careful you'll be able to continue the flight. If you switch on the engine anti-ice switch, ice will disappear after a while.

At very low temperatures, ice will accumulate rapidly and the icing symptoms will appear in the engine in a few minutes.

Always, when under icing conditions, you should switch on engine anti-ice and ignition continuous.

 

That agrees with our observations. Getting off the ground in those conditions is very tricky, with prolonged idling it does not appear the anti-icing can keep up, easier if you can keep the engine warm.

 

Does the fuel enrichment button do anything here? I mean, I know it's not a Harley, just asking :)

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I'm new to this module, and it looks very promising so far. However I also strugle with icing.

 

 

 

Trying the "Instant Action" -> "Caucasus" -> "Landing Hard" gives me a flameout every time even though I use continous ignition and engine anti-ice.

 

 

 

Also, will there be an OAT gauge in coming versions?

 

 

Thanks.

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It's been a while since I did this but I got it by ensuring I spent min time in the icing layer. I did flameout twice before I realized what was going on.

 

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That mission is a really hard one, probably the name should be "extremely hard" instead of "hard". Anytime you fly into a thunderstorm you accumulate huge amounts of ice that the anti-ice system is not able to cope with. There is anti-ice for engine, pitot tube and static ports, but icing generates at higher rate than it dissipates. Therefore, try to land ASAP. The thing is that, right now, DCS presents the same weather for any area you are flying in, so if you place thunderstorms in the mission editor, you will always be flying inside a thunderstorm. As you can imagine that is not good at all, no sane pilot should enter a thunderstorm on purpose. Treat the mission as if you were inside one. Land immediately, set engine anti-ice and pitot heat, as well as ignition continuous. Avoid rapid throttle movements, be very careful using the throttle and, the sooner you land the higher probabilities of survival you'll have.

 

Take also into account that ice accretion in pitot tube is at higher rate than in static port. You'll probably lose airspeed indication during the approach, while altimeter will keep working for longer time.

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Roberto "Vibora" Seoane

Alas Rojas

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Changing weather conditions in the mission from thunderstorm to rain, those ice accretion issues can be avoided since anti-ice system will be able to cope with ice accretion rate. I'll probably edit the mission and save the old one as extremely hard landing. Any feedback welcome.

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Roberto "Vibora" Seoane

Alas Rojas

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

sigpic97175_2_small.pngAERGES-LOGO-sin_fondo_small.png

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  • 3 months later...

The engine may not develop enough bleed air at idle to effectively heat the protected surfaces. In some airplanes you might have to have a rather high power setting to prevent ice formation. The Falcon 20 requires about 82% in some cases, and you have to use your airbrake to descend without breaking speed limits. The TFE in the Lear 35 was also susceptible to ice forming on the back side of the fan blades at idle thrust in freezing fog and had a notice to avoid prolonged descents at idle thrust in icing conditions. In a idle descent we would blip the throttle every 4-5 min to break off any ice before it could grow to a size that could damage the engine, but most of the time we would be through any layers before it ever became an issue.

 

Some planes have heated static ports and some don’t require it, just depends on the location and how ice forms around it, not sure about the C-101 or how the ice accretion is modeled vs real life.

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It is coded according to real data. There is no need to increase power to avoid ice accretion in the C-101 according to real data; in addition, nothing is mentioned in the flight manual.

In the middle of a thunderstorm, ice accretion can be so high that even anti-ice system is not able to cope with it, and that is what we also have coded. Unfortunately right now in DCS there is no option to set thunderstorms in a certain area, it is just thunderstorm on or off in the mission.

Roberto "Vibora" Seoane

Alas Rojas

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

sigpic97175_2_small.pngAERGES-LOGO-sin_fondo_small.png

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