New damage model

Is there any idea on when we will see the new DMs? Racoon? Wags?

We know in advance what the answer will be.

14 days :)

Racoon has not put info from some time ago about DM (and others features) but waiting aboit some news soon

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One thing I'm not really clear... Was the new damage model implemented today?

Cheers

One thing I'm not really clear... Was the new damage model implemented today?

 

Cheers

How I got it, no

Can we expect more or different ways in DCS 2.1 ?

Nobody said anything about what version this will appear in but the news letter already answers the basic question.

We have moved from tracking 30 damage variables to several hundred damage variables. This includes such variables as each airframe spars, engine components, fuel tanks, oil, hydraulic, and pneumatic systems, control surfaces, ammo boxes, etc.

The information about the new damage model is absolutely so exciting! Love to hear that we are receiving such an in-depth amount of detail for the proposed damage model.

Two main questions of mine remain even after that post though.

1. Will this damage model be implemented on all aircraft, and will the AI and player aircraft have the same DM?

2. When can we expect to see it updated? Seeing it mentioned in an official update gives me hope that it'll be soon!

One important question is if the new DM could be incorporated to the AI also.

 

Is badly needed. They fly with SFM making them flying at maximum perfomance all the time without any shortcoming, and if we add simplified DM, well, everybody have seen this AI planes smoking like crazy flying like nothing happened.

Indeed!

I very much doubt that will be possible, because it would require the AI to use the advanced systems modeling and that would mean, your computer (or the server in MP) would have to process all these numerous variables for all AI aircraft besides the own aircraft. An acceptable performance seems impossible for me under those circumstances. :(

 

I would love to be proven wrong though.

I was under the impression the external damage model is different from the flight/avionics model, damage model is what controls the animations and graphics effects and bits that fall off when you crash, it is going to make the whole game look a lot better, it is such a big deal indeed.

From what I gather, the new Advanced DM for humans will be an improvement on the current one; The current Human-DM is better than the A.I. "simple DM".

 

 

So, mabe:

1. The AI can be given the existing "human DM"

2. The old "simple DM" can be dropped completely

3. Human players get the new "advanced DM"

 

 

That would at least be a step forward without loading up the AI with the full new advanced DM...

Interesting indeed, but actually current human DM isn't that realistic anyway, in terms of graphics effects (but this isn't some criticism, we all know simulators aren't meant to focus on graphics)

In the second video you can see one of the crash-stutters, I'm not sure if it's connected to the HDD Asset loading and memory allocation management stuff, but it usually happens with crashes, it feels also that the game goes backwards a few frames, not sure what this is but it's quite a noticable effect even if this was slow motion.

With slow motion, in one theory the stutter should be less noticable as the game doesn't need to load some of the problematic assets that fast, but in this case it makes the stutter stand out even more, so I think it could have to do something with the damage model and/or geometry collision on the CPU side, however, damage model assets are the ones that I've seen being connected the the HDD asset loading problem so it's not clear what this is, certainly in areas like this when all eyes are on the event of destruction, you don't want the game to stutter and worse yet, to jitter backward.

You can clearly see the statistical damage in effect here, as the plane scrapes another object, it's getting damaged, and when damage reaches certain point, a part of the wing disappears (breakes off), when the damage is complete, in the powerline scenario the plane completely disappears with no rubble, but as you can see there's no animations of any kind on the fuselage (except ontop GFX effects), it's just switching between states. However we don't need some fancy animations, if there's a lot more states, with more bits flying off in various directions, it will make it look great as it will be a lot smoother even if it's not a true animation, animations are actually not that recommended because it could be a problem syncing them with the geometry and physics simulation.

The powerline scenario is quite interesting if ED decided to focus on it and make it modelled in such a way that the wires themselfs actually have an accurate geometry collision box and in correct circumstance they would be able to snap parts off the plane without completely destroying it, a wing, or a nose, you might be dead eventually but you would see the plane still moving and flying for some time, if the nose gets hit you probably lose half or all controls, but that's not the problem, the cool thing is you could for the fun of it still try to crash land or something or even tug to the neareast airport, that's like a whole minigame inside the whole thing, it adds value to the whole simulator definitely. I think even if you'd lose half a wing you maybe could still have a change with veteran controlling and engine thrust adjustment. However we can't expect the wires to snap, since it's a static map object and I'm not exepcting at all for them to ever go making all the power lines on all the maps made into proper physics objects, because it's still overall a graphics thing, not much about simulating combat.

Really accurate geometry collision and counting for all the hundreds of bits and where they land or bounce probably would indeed be an extra tax on the CPU, and not a small one, so in some ways people are right that in terms of crashes it could make the CPU spike up, if there's a ton of crashes happening at the same it could slow the game down.

Ofcourse it's a questions if those effects and bits of metal that fall off will have any physics enabled on them, when you hear physics, that's not a small deal, unless it's some simple physics, or only for certain major parts, like if the engine falls down, it's one object, but the bits and effects that are generated around that falling/crashing engine would not be physically accelerated, that would be a good compromise.

I have a separate report in for the AI damage and it is being looked into by ED along side the player damage.

 

When ED have news on it they will share it, no ETA currently

Wow great. This is one of my big whislist things I had in my mind last year, improved AI damage effects, which will make shootdowns, falling, burning, and crashes a lot more enjoyable, I'm so thrilled for this to finally see the heavy transporters and tankers falling down in some better way that approaches realism, it will seriously make the whole game look a lot better, I can feel it.

For esthetics and the overall premium factor in terms of looks, I could go as far to say that AI damage model update is even more important than the player's, because if you're a good pilot, you're not going to crash or go down as easily, you're going to see more others getting hit and crashing down.

For me is enough if ED is able to improve AI damage model in any way. The only things i really want is no more triple smoking trailer on a AI fighter full of holes of fist size all around the fuselage and still flying at máximum perfomance outclimbing, outrolling, outdiving faster than you.

 

I know its a Flight and damage model issue and i know its not possible to have the same as human models but the actual situation is an inmersion murderer.

DONT WORRY GUYS! About performance issues. First the players but then the AIs will get updated, by the time newer CPUs will be out and the damage model should also more than halt affect GPU as it will need to render more effects, and we know this game is far from GPU limited, it will increase some CPU calculation ofcourse but also add draw calls because there will be more bits falling of the plane most probably, among fires, multiple smokes, little effects, however, in future DirectX12 all the existing and those extra draw calls will be considerably lowered freeing up CPU resources.

It does not look that bleak in this area, so hopefully we can sleep a bit calmer. The AI damage model could have the same great visuals but with some advanced parts like complex fuel tank leakage disabled,

or a more simplified implementation, if that's even that costly, but I don't know for sure.

There could be an options slider to adjust the simulation intensity of the damage model for AIs, and/or Player's even. A lot is possible to make it better for everyone in some or all ways.

First the players but then the AIs will get updated, by the time newer CPUs will be out.

Do not get me wrong, but you're saying that the new DM will wait for future CPUs to be released and the gamers' base to replace their rigs for new decacore CPUs or something? In case yes, you are talking 2020 and beyond.

For the topic in general, was it the first time that the information about the DM appeared in a newsletter? Because I had seen those screenshots before. Does it mean that the implementation will come later this year or in the first half of 2018 or will it be a WIP that can take years to implement? Because they've been working on it since 2012 so it seems. How long the Alpha and Beta does take? A year?

I for one am excited to see the new DM. The current one is one of the main issues of DCS. There are games from ten years ago that have far superior DM to the current one.

I really hope it comes out this summer, it will be a big gamechanger and will make the game way more pleasant. My hope is that its going to be similar to CloD or better.

I don't think it will have a big impact on performance of the game.

The new DM looks very promising, I think it will be a complete game changer.

The only thing I'm worried about is whether ED can implement it without a major blow to the performance.

I think some of it is already implemented in the P-51D.

I've been flying a CAS mission and taking MG AA fire from some tanks. I was carrying 2 bombs, which I had not dropped yet. I dropped the first on... near... in the general vicinity of a German tank normally, but when I went to drop the second, I couldn't get it to let go. Turned the safety switch on and off and in every way possible. Turned the arm switches on and off several times before each run. I finally had to use the manual jettison lever--oh boy--to drop the last bomb.

After ending the mission, I checked the mission debriefing and saw that one of the bomb release solenoids was damaged by MG fire :huh:, soooooo....

^ Nah... I remember that used to happen in 1.2.8 as well (when I was struggling with those annoying bombing missions from challenge campaign). Always "solenoid" thing...

Yep. The real issue of the current DMis structural integrity, liquids and fires. Some systems get damaged quite often, even too often such as prop governor and MG's of the mustang. That's due to lack of a good DM.

We get a new DM and I will be happy. I just hope .50 cal will get their M8 API ammo too.

any news on progress?

Would also love to hear an update on this!

Do we have a timeline for the map? Some of us paid good money for Normandy.

 

Regardless of the accuracy of the flight models, when are we going to hear about the map, the missions, the 'game'?

 

Vapourware was never so better represented.

I take it back regarding the map. It's lovely so far. Reminds me very much of another map in another game which was a little rushed and a little unfinished.

Fair play chaps, thanks.

Any word on progress? Is there an area of expected release? Screenshots (other than the two of a Spit from someone's modelviewer)?

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Back!

a) Will specific areas that were hit be visually accurate? ATM, if my Mustang gets hit in the wing close to the fuselage, I have a hole (that rather looks like someone dropped a bowling ball through) that appears in the same slot every time? This may be important for assessing what parts of your plane are hit at just a glance at where some bullet holes are placed.

b) Someone asked this earlier in this thread, but will we get "soft body physics" for aircraft? I mean, will parts of the plane not just get riddeled with holes or vanish entirely, but BEND and fold? Wings folding in half before falling away, or tail getting bent upon a bellylanding.

Are the new DM will be included with 2.5?

I also hope we'll get better hit sounds, not those single "clicks" we have now.

I also hope we'll get better hit sounds, not those single "clicks" we have now.

I hope so, too! The new Flak Demo looks promising in regards of an overall improved and realistic theatre representation