Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

I was agreeing with you... All I was saying was I didnt think all the airfield were setup yet. So red, having been used to being able to use maykop and beslan in the past has not been able to yet. That's all.

Oh, sorry. I was on a posting rampage.

I thought you were implying that you hoped Ciribob will be adding all jets to all captured airfields. That's not how it was before the updated mission...captured airfields would be extremely limited as they got farther away from your team's lines.

...but yes, at the very least Beslan should have spawns and SAMs/AAA.

Oh, sorry. I was on a posting rampage.

 

I thought you were implying that you hoped Ciribob will be adding all jets to all captured airfields. That's not how it was before the updated mission...captured airfields would be extremely limited as they got farther away from your team's lines.

 

...but yes, at the very least Beslan should have spawns and SAMs/AAA.

No, no, not at all. Was simply saying let's see how all the airfields shape out for default.

Too much countermeasures(m2k) on countermeasure hungry missiles(r27s). Mirage's 530D was introduced later than 1983 time stop in 1988 so its over the time limit. Mirage is also fast so it can outran and outdecoy R77 and its radar has anomaly of locking targets thru pilot butt so this usage is justified until Mirage is fixed properly. ETs on the other hand would hit too much blue without knowing that they are attacked. R77 would give them a chance to evade.

R77 gives the shooter a way out 2 v 2 this will be so hard to counter. With R77 MiG could even fight 1v2 with ease.

 

There were no Su-27's in the VVS, they were received in '85 and entered service officially in '90.

A bit of elaboration on that.

The PVO received the first 20 in '85, in '86 distribution was accelerated, they stopped making Su27S in '89 only producing Su27P.

In 1990 the Soviet Union declared the Su27 the standard fighter for both PVO and VVS, that same year the CFE treaty report issued reported 367 Flankers in Europe, 138 VVS and 229 PVO.

Set up the M2k with 0% fuel. Problem solved.

 

 

 

Whatever you do, don't hurt scramble capability of F-5 and MiG-21. I really like that those fighters can get up in a hurry to go save a base. In fact, if they could start hot, I'd like that. I have seen more Red players in the MiG-21 lately, and they are beasts with GCI support (shot me down in the F-15 more than a few times). I really want to see more reasons to use F-5s and MiG-21s in Blue Flag.

I'd support both of these ideas. Mirage zero fuel and f5/m21 fully fueled. Not sure about the hot start, but I'd give them full fuel.

TJ

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Next, by my personal obsevation, bomber calls are to effective even with reduced numbers of bombs droped so I sugest using Sabres and Mig15s that would need to land on nearest friendly airport to deliver captured intel. If on same airport as bomber start point one could see bomber on ramp taking of for its run and even folow it with egg. mig21 or F5. Bomb number should actually be full bomber capability but this way bomb run should be a little trickier because recon flight would become target of interest upon return to friendly base as man hunt would start at that point.

 

:pilotfly:

Love this idea! You have to get the recon back to your base to call in the bomber. EPIC!

TJ

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Would be interesting to see mirage only on blue. With zero fuel. The DL and EO give the su27 an advantage that I think could be offset with the faster 530. And the fact the mirage only carries two helps even it out. Any opposition to try? I'm not interested in adding longer range missiles to even it out.

TJ

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Would be interesting to see mirage only on blue. With zero fuel. The DL and EO give the su27 an advantage that I think could be offset with the faster 530. And the fact the mirage only carries two helps even it out. Any opposition to try? I'm not interested in adding longer range missiles to even it out.

 

TJ

 

 

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I thought DL and EO were almost worthless?

I thought DL and EO were almost worthless?

DL isn't worthless if you can get folks in helos to put the radars down.

I'm also not sure where you read that I said EO is worthless. EO just doesn't have much of a place in an air superiority fight when you are trying to defend your CAS against enemy CAP.

The superior (faster) 530 and lack of situational awareness with the su27 rwr is what I complain about. DL is a measure to help resolve that.

TJ

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I thought DL and EO were almost worthless?

If extreme low level ambush CAP and fighter sweep profiles are all you know how to fly then DL/IRST are very useful.

Otherwise, the DL is quite nice, but the IRST isn't as useful.

As for the Mirage/530...It's a horrible radar/missile combo. Flanker/Fulcrum's best bet is beam drag and Rmin all the things. You'll not just defeat his missiles but probably kill his SA while you're at it.

The amount of crying for a "balanced" mission is simply unbearable. I want to see what you kids are going to suggest when people start "spamming" F/A 18's left and right when it's released.

The amount of crying for a "balanced" mission is simply unbearable. I want to see what you kids are going to suggest when people start "spamming" F/A 18's left and right when it's released.

Asymmetrical Balance is still balance...

If extreme low level ambush CAP and fighter sweep profiles are all you know how to fly then DL/IRST are very useful.

 

Otherwise, the DL is quite nice, but the IRST isn't as useful.

 

As for the Mirage/530...It's a horrible radar/missile combo. Flanker/Fulcrum's best bet is beam drag and Rmin all the things. You'll not just defeat his missiles but probably kill his SA while you're at it.

Interesting to see all of the wildly different stories about the Su27 and the Mirage in this thread. Almost makes you think all the people talking about inferiority and balance would be better suited talking about viable tactics.

Asymmetrical Balance is still balance...

No one is asking for "asymmetrical balance" though...they're literally asking for everything to be the same. Missile capabilities, RWR capabilities, SEAD and ground attack aircraft...Right down to fueling times. It's petty and ignorant.

No one is asking for "asymmetrical balance" though...they're literally asking for everything to be the same. Missile capabilities, RWR capabilities, SEAD and ground attack aircraft...Right down to fueling times. It's petty and ignorant.

Well lets go back to how it was originally wth full payload. I'd be happy with that.

I don't understand why you have a problem with the Flanker having something towards its genuine capabilities. Blue flag has always been a feature/module request. But now because Abortedman has been playing BF for 5 mins and he likes the set up no one is allowed to request anything without his judgement.

Well lets go back to how it was originally wth full payload. I'd be happy with that.

 

I don't understand why you have a problem with the Flanker having something towards its genuine capabilities. Blue flag has always been a feature/module request. But now because Abortedman has been playing BF for 5 mins and he likes the set up no one is allowed to request anything without his judgement.

"Buff red teem plz."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7YEoxf7UIxAZ1VLNTlNTHhIUG8/view?usp=sharing

Who won the last 5, 6, 7...8 test rounds? Red.

"Give us DataLink so we can be effective plz"

"Give us A10 because reasons plz"

"Give us 100% fuel because I lost a dogfight because I was on the ramp too long every single time I fly plz"

And now look at the server...a fraction of the people are playing because of this garbage.

"Buff red teem plz."

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7YEoxf7UIxAZ1VLNTlNTHhIUG8/view?usp=sharing

 

Who won the last 5, 6, 7...8 test rounds? Red.

 

"Give us DataLink so we can be effective plz"

 

"Give us A10 because reasons plz"

 

"Give us 100% fuel because I lost a dogfight because I was on the ramp too long every single time I fly plz"

 

And now look at the server...a fraction of the people are playing because of this garbage.

This ^

"Buff red teem plz."

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7YEoxf7UIxAZ1VLNTlNTHhIUG8/view?usp=sharing

 

Who won the last 5, 6, 7...8 test rounds? Red.

 

"Give us DataLink so we can be effective plz"

 

"Give us A10 because reasons plz"

 

"Give us 100% fuel because I lost a dogfight because I was on the ramp too long every single time I fly plz"

 

And now look at the server...a fraction of the people are playing because of this garbage.

Anymore weak excuses, maybe the weather or the fact it's set in the Caucasus or people keep switching sides, perhaps its the fact that red don't get hung up on 'the must use SR' mantra that they do so well.

The datalink is to make the Flanker an option because it ain't much of one without it, Red win without it.

Nobody complained about not being able to win without, if you failed to follow the conversation it was about making the Flanker an option not a game changer. Search on youtube for DCS Blueflag and you'll see a majority of the videos are Mirages shooting down Flankers, and that is a lot of Mirage pilots that hardly know what they're actually doing. Nobody wants to be easy meat for Mirages and combined with its popularity everybody starts flying Mirage. This is stale.

Those feature changes are for interest, the A10C doesn't make clearing bases any easier it is more of a fact that it gives pilots a choice to go red or blue. Like the Mirage it is the only clickable module in its class so a popular choice to fly and one of tge best modules in DCS, why not let more have the option to do so. Personally i'd rather see it Blue only.

Give us 100% fuel is buffing, now you're making stuff up, this is asking for parity with fighter turnaround be it full fuel or no fuel make it across the board.

The only one complaining on these boards that they can't win because of x is you, according to you it wasn't happening for you before either so maybe you should practice what you preach, change your tactics and stop giving unwarranted reasons for your cohorts to cry off.

Anymore weak excuses, maybe the weather or the fact it's set in the Caucasus or people keep switching sides, perhaps its the fact that red don't get hung up on 'the must use SR' mantra that they do so well.

 

The datalink is to make the Flanker an option because it ain't much of one without it, Red win without it.

Nobody complained about not being able to win without, if you failed to follow the conversation it was about making the Flanker an option not a game changer. Search on youtube for DCS Blueflag and you'll see a majority of the videos are Mirages shooting down Flankers, and that is a lot of Mirage pilots that hardly know what they're actually doing. Nobody wants to be easy meat for Mirages and combined with its popularity everybody starts flying Mirage. This is stale.

 

Those feature changes are for interest, the A10C doesn't make clearing bases any easier it is more of a fact that it gives pilots a choice to go red or blue. Like the Mirage it is the only clickable module in its class so a popular choice to fly and one of tge best modules in DCS, why not let more have the option to do so. Personally i'd rather see it Blue only.

 

Give us 100% fuel is buffing, now you're making stuff up, this is asking for parity with fighter turnaround be it full fuel or no fuel make it across the board.

 

The only one complaining on these boards that they can't win because of x is you, according to you it wasn't happening for you before either so maybe you should practice what you preach, change your tactics and stop giving unwarranted reasons for your cohorts to cry off.

Someone isn't reading the thread before typing.

If the problem is Mirages then why aren't people asking for limitations on the Mirage? Why not ask for removing 530D...instead it's "I want DL, I want fuel, I want R77, I want ER's, I want everything that will make the aircraft I think looks the coolest into the best aircraft in the server".

You're not trying to balance shit for the betterment of everyone's gameplay. You just want to gobble up the kills like every other airquaker out there, and you want it easy.

Someone isn't reading the thread before typing.

 

If the problem is Mirages then why aren't people asking for limitations on the Mirage? Why not ask for removing 530D...instead it's "I want DL, I want fuel, I want R77, I want ER's, I want everything that will make the aircraft I think looks the coolest the best aircraft in the server".

 

You're not trying to balance shit for the better of everyone's gameplay. You just want to gobble up the kills like every other airquaker out there, and you want it easy.

Why downgrade Mirage when you can simply give the Flanker what it should have. Removing the 530D is just the same as all the other requests why are you trying to make that sound a different and valid request. If I wanted to just rack up kills i'd be asking for ETS, ERs and 77s don't you think.

Seems to me you have no understanding of how pvp works and are getting too hung up on stuff that has very little effect on the overall outcome of BF.

Why downgrade Mirage when you can simply give the Flanker what it should have. Removing the 530D is just the same as all the other requests why are you trying to make that sound a different and valid request. If I wanted to just rack up kills i'd be asking for ETS, ERs and 77s don't you think.

 

Seems to me you have no understanding of how pvp works and are getting too hung up on stuff that has very little effect on the overall outcome of BF.

YOU PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR ETs ERs AND R77s, WTF??

YOU PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR ETs ERs AND R77s, WTF??

You need to chill out before you have an aneurysm or something, its just a game, for the most part people ask for changes for the benefit of their own personal experience or what they think would make it more enjoyable by all. No one is asking for change to win.

I think maybe one guy asked for R77 on MiG and possibly two asked for ER on Flankers. This doesn't equate to you people. When I make a response to you about datalink then please respond accordingly instead of bringing irrelevant requests by others into the discussion. I know its hard to get your point across without making a strawman out of it but it will save your ticker in the long run.

You need to chill out before you have an aneurysm or something, its just a game, for the most part people ask for changes for the benefit of their own personal experience or what they think would make it more enjoyable by all. No one is asking for change to win.

 

I think maybe one guy asked for R77 on MiG and possibly two asked for ER on Flankers. This doesn't equate to you people. When I make a response to you about datalink then please respond accordingly instead of bringing irrelevant requests by others into the discussion. I know its hard to get your point across without making a strawman out of it but it will save your ticker in the long run.

Look, I'm sure we're all after the same thing...a good time while playing DCS, and I appreciate the sensible response. You have to see where I (and others) are coming from...

There is a vocal minority of people here on this thread pointing out their perceived deficiencies of Red team's available mechanics, missiles, and airframes or whatever. This is happening all the while red has won the last 5 test rounds and before that won the majority of them since testing for this next round began. It simply does not make sense to be calling for buffs to any red airframe...even if it is to attempt to solve the abundance of Mirages. Power creep is a deadly thing to gameplay.

The arguments I've seen in favor of giving red this or that have all stemmed from what I have witnessed being a simple lack of skill and application of proper tactics. Period. Not trying to insult anyone or bash their skill/ego or whatever. The reason why many people are losing is not because they're in a Mig29 or Su27 and it's lacking X...it's the choices they make while decision time is upon them and they are blaming the wrong thing for their loss.

This lack of introspection is affecting other player's experience by creating an environment unfit for quality gameplay on both teams. Blue Flag is unique in its rule set and limited on purpose...not by simulated era, not by country/region/manufacturer alliance.

It's up to you as a player to accept the differences in assets and mechanics available to each team when you make the choice to go red or blue. When I started playing this was clear and concise...now the lines have been blurred due to frustrated people not willing to learn and trying to change the mission to their will. It's frustrating to watch and stand by and say nothing.

Everybody did accept the change from full payload to R v 7s but then they added the Mirage after 'requests', suddenly being outranged by AIM-7 was childs play compared to the 530D so most switched to Mirage.

I don't know how to make it plain and simple to you 1v1, 2v2 R vs 530D, equal pilots the Mirage should win everytime. No amount of tactic changing is going to solve that, you can beat tactics with counter tactics but by using equal ability and tactics you can't beat a more powerful weapon with a less powerful one.

To be able to gain the upper hand tactically over a more powerful opponent you need better SA than them, I wonder how that could be achieved by the Flanker over an aircraft with a better RWR and the weapon to allow it to fly high and gain good SA, surely there is something it has in its locker to achieve this.

Plus please i'd love to hear what you think these guys are doing wrong.

"Tell them...Tell them all! Who ever comes...Who ever it is...I'll kill them.. I'll KILL THEM ALL!!!"

:lol:

Everybody did accept the change from full payload to R v 7s but then they added the Mirage after 'requests', suddenly being outranged by AIM-7 was childs play compared to the 530D so most switched to Mirage.

 

I don't know how to make it plain and simple to you 1v1, 2v2 R vs 530D, equal pilots the Mirage should win everytime. No amount of tactic changing is going to solve that, you can beat tactics with counter tactics but by using equal ability and tactics you can't beat a more powerful weapon with a less powerful one.

To be able to gain the upper hand tactically over a more powerful opponent you need better SA than them, I wonder how that could be achieved by the Flanker over an aircraft with a better RWR and the weapon to allow it to fly high and gain good SA, surely there is something it has in its locker to achieve this.

 

Plus please i'd love to hear what you think these guys are doing wrong.

I've said it multiple times...this debate started when I watched someone face**** a missile in a direct head-on with zero attempt to beam until the very last second and exclaimed it was the missile's fault in chat.

What if 3 blue-only players came into this thread and said that EO and IR missiles are OP and in absolutely no way can be countered and that they wanted it removed or they wanted the AIM-120 added to compensate for the imbalance? Do you see the error in the logic here?