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G-Warm up


chumpnut1323

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"G-Warmup is actually modelled in DCS. Without it the pilot starts to blackout at some 6Gs, and with it at 7.7Gs. Extremely useful when it comes to ACM or even BVR missile evasion. To achieve, just pull Gs for a dozen or two seconds."

 

Is this true?

 

Seen that comment on Hoggit pertaining to the vid from Mover and Wags flight.

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It is true. A rudimentary G-warm up is modeled.

 

I've tested this after I kept almost G-LOCing when practicing SHB carrier recoveries and on the initial merge during BFM at around 6Gs in the Hornet.

 

If you do a couple 4-6G warmups prior to a max G turn you have about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes after the G warmup where you can complete a max G turn without G-LOC. In my testing, if, after the warmup, you wait more then 2 minutes, you'll once again G-LOC under max G (around 6Gs in the Hornet).

 

*I've only tested this in the Hornet.

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It is true. A rudimentary G-warm up is modeled.

 

I've tested this after I kept almost G-LOCing when practicing SHB carrier recoveries and on the initial merge during BFM at around 6Gs in the Hornet.

 

If you do a couple 4-6G warmups prior to a max G turn you have about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes after the G warmup where you can complete a max G turn without G-LOC. In my testing, if, after the warmup, you wait more then 2 minutes, you'll once again G-LOC under max G (around 6Gs in the Hornet).

 

*I've only tested this in the Hornet.

 

 

 

Nice, that's awesome. Can't wait to try it out.

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I learned a thing about DCS today. Thanks OP!

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Very nice post, thanks! Obviously know that this is crucial in real life, but didn't think that the sim modeled that trait. Bravo for disclosing this information, just tried it and can confirm that I noticed the difference as well.

 

Guess it's worth continuing to practice real life maneuvers.

 

Cheers,

 

Don

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  • 1 month later...

Lol, but after the "warmup", you'll be able to hold 8G forever even if the screen is quite dark, still you won't blackout. I'm surprised that nobody ever tested the edges to see!

 

By how I see it, the realistic G effects modelling is somewhere in-between of what we have atm!

 

First, a trained pilot, even without the "warmup" isn't suppose to blackout at 6g in 5 seconds with he's G-suit working properly. This is too much too early to be accurate! There are a lot of video demonstrations in which even with no straining nor scheduled breathing, the subject holds more than 7G for about 10 seconds before he calls it a stop. With the correct straining and breathing procedure, they can withstand even 12G constantly for at least 10 seconds. The other end of the simulated function as I repeat myself, won't let you completely blackout and get G-loc even if you'd keep it forever at no more than 8.0Gs! This is how it's simulated atm! Test it!

 

Have a look at these guys for instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9T2HI1eiTA

-(this one actually did 12G for 15 long seconds)-


Edited by 85th_Maverick

Good knowledge and common sense make the absurd run for defense.

Flying has always been a great interest for mankind, yet learning everything about it brought the greatest challenge!

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  • 4 weeks later...

In fact, you guys should better try this:

 

-Use the outside view (the best would be the chase view) in order to not get confused by the "simulated" blackout. With zero "warmup", just pull to 7.9Gs (do not touch or go over 8 ) and hold it there as constant as you can. Switch between cockpit view (to monitor the blackout "simulation") and outside view (to monitor and constantly hold the 7.9G load) and you'll find out how the "simulated warmup" gradually takes away part of the blackout. So the simulated "warmup" doesn't care whether you release the G's for a while to let the pilot grab a breath and get better straining or not, it simply starts reducing your blackout effect right in the middle of high G's. There will be some amount of blacking but the effect never occurs. As stated before, you can hold 7.9 forever and not blackout and still see enough in order to fight, while at exactly 8 you'll neither blackout nor get slightly rid of it after the warmup effect takes place. 8Gs seem to be simulated as a threshold between coming out of a full black and triggering the loss of consciousness.


Edited by 85th_Maverick

Good knowledge and common sense make the absurd run for defense.

Flying has always been a great interest for mankind, yet learning everything about it brought the greatest challenge!

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  • 4 months later...
how do you perform it?

 

A typical G-warmup exercise would usually involve a 90 deg hard turn up to about 6Gs and then a 180 deg turn with an initial 7-8 G and then sustained at about 4-5G through the rest of the turn.

 

It’s usually done before BFM, ACM or ACT fight, so its accomplished at the typical fight altitude - I.e. 15-20K feet. To start, fly straight and level and then in Mil power, push over to accelerate to Corner velocity and then execute a level hard turn (not break turn) with AB as required to maintain about 4 Gs. At the 90 deg point, unload and roll out. Climb back up to your starting altitude. Once level, push over again and accelerate to corner velocity in Mil. Once at Corner vel, execute a break turn in the opposite direction to achieve an instantaneous 7-8G+ in Full AB and then back off the pull to sustain a 4G descending turn until the 180 deg point. Unload, roll out and climb back to the starting altitude for your BFM engagements.

 

The G warmup serves two purposes. Mainly to get your body warmed up and see how you’re performing that day, get the blood pumping, etc. But it also gets your body and hands to be able to feel the jet and refresh yourself on how to break turn and then manage energy throughout the turn while G-straining.

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  • 3 months later...

I thought G-warm is consisting of two 90° level turns in either the same direction or in opposite directions instead of a 90° and then a 180° turn as described above. The two 90° turns is what Navy and USAF documents describe at least.


Edited by dcs76
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  • 4 months later...
I thought G-warm is consisting of two 90° level turns in either the same direction or in opposite directions instead of a 90° and then a 180° turn as described above. The two 90° turns is what Navy and USAF documents describe at least.

 

I don't recall what the Navy does, but in the USAF for an A/A sortie (like BFM or ACM) it is by reg a 90 then a 180. For a basic A/G sortie, it can be replaced with a 90/90.

 

For A/A, the G-warmup usually serves two main purposes - 1) it is to warmup the body to the expected Gs and test the equipment (G-suit, combat edge, etc) but also 2) it is to warm up your fingers for HOTAS such as using the auto acquisition modes, missile modes, missile uncage, etc. i.e. playing the piccolo. The Hotas part is secondary as the A/A systems check on departure can be used to accomplish this. The focus is on a good AGSM and to gauge how your body feels that day. Every day is different and you have to be in tune with how you're feeling.

 

For the A/A warmup execution, usually you would start off as a 2-ship in Tac line abreast about 1nm apart and stacked level. Both start jets somewhere about 50-75kts below corner velocity in the mid to high teens on altitude MSL, depending on the terrain and WX ofc. When ready, both jets would accelerate in mil power by pushing the nose over to achieve corner velocity (every jet is different so the speeds vary by platform). The first 90 deg level turn is usually done in Mil power only and you might get 4-5g's. At that point, they would terminate and Climb back to the starting altitude and repeat the process again but this time with a 180 turn in Full AB initially and a harder pull to get to 5-7g more rapid onset and then once the speed bleeds down then just relax to sustain about 3-4 G through 2nd half of the turn. All the while, whoever is the jet behind is working HOTAS to lock up the other jet.

 

The comm flow would sound something like this once lined up at reference A/S and alt:

 

"Eagle, Accelerate"

 

Eagle 1 ready, two ready

 

In place, 90 Right, NOW

 

(both climb back up to altitude and back to reference airspeed)

 

Eagle, Accelerate

 

Eagle 1 ready, two ready

 

Eagle, in place 180 left, NOW

 

Eagle terminate. 1 Terminate, 2 terminate

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Notso Hm, interesting. Tbh I have only read A-10 related stuff which is mostly A/G work. There is this ominous AFTTP 3-3 Vol5 for (Royal Norwegian AF doc for F-16) on the internet which I don't know if it's real or fan fiction, but it describes more or less what you were stating.

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Its real, theres a RoKAF version out there as well.

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/12/2019 at 4:19 PM, Razi said:

If you do a couple 4-6G warmups prior to a max G turn you have about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes after the G warmup where you can complete a max G turn without G-LOC. In my testing, if, after the warmup, you wait more then 2 minutes, you'll once again G-LOC under max G (around 6Gs in the Hornet).

Apologies for merging late to this discussion...

The benefits of a G-Warmup do not magically dissipate after 2 minutes IRL.  You should be good for the rest of the sortie.  If I recall correctly, Aerospace Physiology used to teach us that experimentation/testing showed the benefits lasted the day.
 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/8/2021 at 12:00 PM, FoghornF16 said:

Apologies for merging late to this discussion...

The benefits of a G-Warmup do not magically dissipate after 2 minutes IRL.  You should be good for the rest of the sortie.  If I recall correctly, Aerospace Physiology used to teach us that experimentation/testing showed the benefits lasted the day.
 

Thanks for this. Hopefully one of the devs picks up on it. It would be fantastic to only have to perform a G-Warmup once per sortie in DCS.


Edited by Razi
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  • 2 months later...
On 6/14/2020 at 8:53 AM, dcs76 said:

I thought G-warm is consisting of two 90° level turns in either the same direction or in opposite directions instead of a 90° and then a 180° turn as described above. The two 90° turns is what Navy and USAF documents describe at least.

 

Direction would only be for navigational purposes. You're being pushed into your seat, direction of turn doesn't matter.
I also doubt there were any actual fights where pilots conducted g-warmups before engaging. Imagine how that would work out.

 

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  • 1 month later...

U don't need to warmup! All you must do is to hold 7.5G's constantly even if the screen fully blacks out and wait some more seconds until it becomes "morning" again and you'll start seeing everything acceptably (yet not completely recovered) even if you keep turning forever at 7.5G...! Reality is a different story!

Good knowledge and common sense make the absurd run for defense.

Flying has always been a great interest for mankind, yet learning everything about it brought the greatest challenge!

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