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Ka-50 Unguided Rockets Firing Possible Bug!


Murey2

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Hello,

 

 

This is very weird, when firing unguided rockets some times at the moment you squeeze the trigger to fire the nose of the Helicopter jump rapidly up, which make you miss the target!!

 

Note: This have been happening with me from long time but not always. In single Player and online. Only with unguided rockets.

 

In the track below you will see me firing unguided rockets twice at the first salvo firing what I described above happen and at the second that doesn't happen!?!?

 

 

Track download link below:

https://send.firefox.com/download/dcf6c377bd805513/#IQ1xhC8Wpo3QJ1Yz45pv4A


Edited by Murey2
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Actually this is like the real KA 50 behaves as well. It's not u Bug. It's meant to counteract the effect of the rockets exhaust. BTW rockets are not meant to work out of a hover in the KA 50 strafing runs work pretty good.

 

 

Are you saying the real Ka-50 will pitch up when 1st firing a salvo but will not pitch up when firing another salvo? I highly doubt that.

 

 

From memory there has been an issue with excessive recoil effect from firing off rockets.. This may be related.

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Actually this is like the real KA 50 behaves as well. It's not u Bug. It's meant to counteract the effect of the rockets exhaust. BTW rockets are not meant to work out of a hover in the KA 50 strafing runs work pretty good.

 

 

WAW! So, some times it does that some other's not!? WTH! According to you then the KA-50 is a haunted helicopter with a mind of it's own!

 

No dear! it's not how any attack craft behave! show us 1 video of any craft doing that! because I have never seen such thing.

 

Also the unguided rockets very bad on accuracy no need to make it worst!

 

 

 

Are you saying the real Ka-50 will pitch up when 1st firing a salvo but will not pitch up when firing another salvo? I highly doubt that.

 

 

From memory there has been an issue with excessive recoil effect from firing off rockets.. This may be related.

 

:thumbup:

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Hello,

 

This is very weird, when firing unguided rockets some times at the moment you squeeze the trigger to fire the nose of the Helicopter jump rapidly up, which make you miss the target!!

(…)

In the track below you will see me firing unguided rockets twice at the first salvo firing what I described above happen and at the second that doesn't happen!?!?

Are you saying the real Ka-50 will pitch up when 1st firing a salvo but will not pitch up when firing another salvo? I highly doubt that.

WAW! So, some times it does that some other's not!? WTH! According to you then the KA-50 is a haunted helicopter with a mind of it's own!

 

Or it may simply be that the kick is always there, but as the AP only has + / - 20% authority, sometimes (if you're not fighting the AP) the AP can filter the pitch up out, and sometimes (if it's already using 18% to correct for the input you've started adding since trimming) it can't, and the aircraft pitches.

 

No need for ghosts at all.

 

Also the unguided rockets very bad on accuracy no need to make it worst!

 

They still have less dispersion (are more accurate) than you'll see in video of the same weapon used in real life. :)

Cheers.

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I know this is AH-64 but fundamentals are the same.

Except that they're firing single missiles, not salvos, and from a hover in a still day which (apart from being forbidden in the Ka-50) means that they probably have the full extent of the SA system authority to stop any pitching tendency, and - it's a completely different aircraft, so if there is a recoil from the launch, it will act in with a different torque against the aircraft's CoG.

 

Ever see one of these ?

MTs3-1-Rekord.jpg

A Ts3-1 Rekord match pistol designed for the Olympics, but banned.

the barrel is at the bottom. There's exactly the same amount of recoil as with any other gun firing the same ammunition, but it acts straight into the shooter's grip, not above it, so there's no pitch up.

A gun is not a gun is not a gun

and

a helicopter is not a helicopter is not a helicopter.

 

 

Turn on the FD when shooting rockets. It will keep the nose in place.

If that's the case, it would imply that it's the AP running out of authority (as all 20 % authority is now available purely for stability augmentation).

 

At work, but if you actually disable all the AP channels does it happen ?

Cheers.

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Ever see one of these ?

 

 

A gun is a completely different scenario and not comparable to rockets. Guns have the shell locked in a chamber (think 6 shooter) so when firing the opposing force transfers back to the gun giving the recoil.

 

 

Rockets pods are basically a cylinder with an opening in the front & back so when a rocket fires out of the pods it's "thrusting" directly off atmospheric pressure.

 

 

 

I've fired rockets from a R/C helicopter, there is barely any adverse effect on the helicopter, a slight yaw due to the friction of the rocket leaving the rail.

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..if you actually disable all the AP channels does it happen ?

 

 

Just tried a rocket attack from a stable hover with no AP channels on at all, single pairs & large salvo's, there is no recoil at all. I believe this is the correct behavior.

 

 

Firing the cannon is a completely different story, as we all know. :D

 

 

So to answer the OP it sounds like an intermittent bug.


Edited by 26-J39
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98kN0KcYJZc

 

All the small calibre MLRS systems that are not stabilised against the ground with hydraulic jacks (& several of the smaller ones that are), & are firing their missiles from "a cylinder with an opening in the front & back", are visibly rocked back by the launch of the missiles.

Cheers.

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Guys this was definitely discussed like 8 or 9 Years ago. I just cant really remember, and do not nail it to hard up to the Recoil point. The longer i think about it i was wrong in my first post and it had something to do to help recover the KA-50 out of the attack dive ~ -15 to -30 deg.

 

What i can for sure remember that this behavior is not a bug and its been like that as old as the KA-50 in DCS is.

 

Keep in mind that this single seat Attack Helicopter is more or less a Prototype and some Automatics where integrated to help to reduce the Workload for the pilot.

 

I have no idea this feature made it into the KA-52.

 

The fact that this recover feature does not appear in a second Salvo could be a bug.

But it aswell could be that it has some reset time because i have like the feeling that this was also discussed.

 

Ise:flowers:

"Blyat Naaaaa" - Izlom

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I didn't watch the track, sorry for that. But question I have is that what is the delay between your salvos?

 

As when you fire first rocket salvo, your helicopter can pitch up, but then it starts recovering and all the energy that was used to pitch up, is now returning back to pitch down. And if you fire second salvo in the time period the energy is still pitching down (even slightly), the second salvo doesn't pitch you up because it can't counter the energy that there is pitching you down.

 

As well first salvo can be very surprising to a pilot, not prepared for it by pitching already down slightly, while the second is easier as pilot is prepared and does it automatically.

 

AFAIK the Apache doesn't have any kind automatic stabilization for the rocket firing. So nothing like a A-10 GAU-8 stabilization to keep it steady. As those rockets just do not cause much kickpack, but enough to make helicopter that is like all that weight top of the pin to get notched to one direction.

 

That is as well why it is better to fire from the move, as you have put all the energy of the helicopter weight in the motion, and any weapon fired at that moment doesn't need to just throw the helicopter out of the balance, but to counter all the energy that is in place in movement.

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Hi all,

 

autopilot should make a pitch down in advance to compensate for the recoil.

We will take a look to see if anything is not working.

 

Thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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As seen above no recoil is seen on the hind what so EVER!

 

Unguided rockets should have no recoil what so ever. Correct me if I'm wrong,ask an attack helicopter pilot who have fired unguided rockets...

 

Unguided rockets are very similar to recoil-less weapons, meaning the thrust after ignition is all dissipated behind the rocket to the open air! Where is the strong recoil going to come from?

 

 

Hi all,

 

autopilot should make a pitch down in advance to compensate for the recoil.

We will take a look to see if anything is not working.

 

Thanks

 

Thanks

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"Where is the strong recoil going to come from?"

 

Seen videos of Cesna's being blown over by the jet wash of airliners turning a hundred metres in front of them ?

when a salvo is launched, there's a (continuous set of) rocket sitting a metre in front of the rocket pod (only some of the tubes of which are empty - the rest are just a wall) with its rocket exhaust blowing on the aircraft.

The turbulence / backwash from the rockets is severe enough to risk flameout on the engines, and is in part why the real Ka-50 (& Mi-25) is prohibited from firing rocket salvos at less than 100 km/h

Cheers.

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^^ also - see the video I posted - MLRS without jacks are knocked about by the launch of what you're suggesting are recoil-less weapons. MLRS with jacks have jacks to keep them stable while launching.

 

Edit : See 1:16 in this

KcbUxq6ymDE


Edited by Weta43

Cheers.

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Weta43, good point about the land based rocket systems. I guess the rocket thrust is still pushing off the inner walls of the cylinder/tube also just as the rocket leaves the tube directly thrusting of the face of the launching pod.

 

 

Edit: Ah, apologies I missed that you mentioned pretty much the same above.

 

 

One consideration though is the size, weight & stability of the launching platform relative to the size & power of the rocket. Ground based systems have very large rockets compared to the launching platform where as attack helicopters are launching quite small rockets compared to the size and stability of a helicopter.


Edited by 26-J39
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As seen above no recoil is seen on the hind what so EVER!

 

Unguided rockets should have no recoil what so ever. Correct me if I'm wrong,ask an attack helicopter pilot who have fired unguided rockets...

 

Unguided rockets are very similar to recoil-less weapons, meaning the thrust after ignition is all dissipated behind the rocket to the open air! Where is the strong recoil going to come from?

Thanks

 

You clearly have not fired a "recoilless rifle" ;-)

And I give you an tip... IT RECOIL.

 

IT ain't as much as if tube would be closed, but it still kicks.

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Hi all,

 

autopilot should make a pitch down in advance to compensate for the recoil.

We will take a look to see if anything is not working.

 

Thanks

 

Okay, then logically a AH-64 would as well have one, considering how advanced it is.

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Depends where the rocket sits, and so there the thrust is, relative to the COG.

There will be a point that if you push there, the aircraft will simply move back, not pitch up or down.

Push below that and the aircraft will pitch down, above and it will pitch up.

Cheers.

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Weta43, good point about the land based rocket systems. I guess the rocket thrust is still pushing off the inner walls of the cylinder/tube also just as the rocket leaves the tube directly thrusting of the face of the launching pod.

 

 

Edit: Ah, apologies I missed that you mentioned pretty much the same above.

 

 

One consideration though is the size, weight & stability of the launching platform relative to the size & power of the rocket. Ground based systems have very large rockets compared to the launching platform where as attack helicopters are launching quite small rockets compared to the size and stability of a helicopter.

 

Perhaps, but helicopters are entirely without ground bracing and free to move under the influence of the back-thrust. You could move one like you could move a boat, except air is less viscous & so it would be eaisier (& you can move quite a big boat by hand).

Cheers.

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  • ED Team

Just to be sure are you setting your rockets up correctly for the compensation of recoil?

 

 

 

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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