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A better zoom veiw in VR


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I don't see how ... when zooming in 3D you compress the depth, and if you "pan" while zooming, the pan speed is incresed.

 

x2 zoom => 1/2 depth, x2 pan speed

x4 zoom => 1/4 depth, x4 pan speed

 

It's not nice, but I don't see how it could be done otherwise, it happens the same in other games.

 

When VR has better resolution, VR zoom should be removed, and the only zoom should happen from optical elements in the plane, like a bombing sight on a PE-2

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I don't see how ... when zooming in 3D you compress the depth, and if you "pan" while zooming, the pan speed is incresed.

 

x2 zoom => 1/2 depth, x2 pan speed

x4 zoom => 1/4 depth, x4 pan speed

 

It's not nice, but I don't see how it could be done otherwise, it happens the same in other games.

 

When VR has better resolution, VR zoom should be removed, and the only zoom should happen from optical elements in the plane, like a bombing sight on a PE-2

 

Good luck then trying to remove the zoom from monitor users, who already have the better resolution.

You’ll also face the argument of pilots using binoculars to spot ground targets, which is a fair point, but doesn’t feel quite right when you’re talking of using zoom during a dogfight.

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Good luck then trying to remove the zoom from monitor users, who already have the better resolution.

You’ll also face the argument of pilots using binoculars to spot ground targets, which is a fair point, but doesn’t feel quite right when you’re talking of using zoom during a dogfight.

 

They have better resolution, but they see things in a reduced scale, so I wouldn't remove it on monitor.

 

And for binoculars, it could be a really nice option, but then they should make them real, and the FOV should be smaller, it would take time to use them, etc ...

 

There are already some VR Shooters that make very realistic implementation of optical scopes ...


Edited by cercata
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Good luck then trying to remove the zoom from monitor users, who already have the better resolution.

You’ll also face the argument of pilots using binoculars to spot ground targets, which is a fair point, but doesn’t feel quite right when you’re talking of using zoom during a dogfight.

The zoom view isn’t there to simulate binoculars. It’s there to make up for the low resolution and size / FOV of your screen. It’s needed to make up for lack of resolution in VR just like on a monitor. Likely neither will be able to replicate 20/20 vision any time soon.

The zoom view is not unique to DCS, all flight sims have this feature for the same reason.

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  • 6 months later...
I really dont like the way zoom works in VR.

the elastic band feel of it and the deformation of the view is really really jarring.

 

I really wish we could have the zoom view work like it does on a flat screen.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

+1

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I really dont like the way zoom works in VR.

the elastic band feel of it and the deformation of the view is really really jarring.

 

I really wish we could have the zoom view work like it does on a flat screen.

 

 

 

SD

 

You have an alternative here (that add instantaneous 2x, 5x and 10X zoom, and other things for VR) : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242134

Unfortunately, mouse will not work with the additionnal zoom (not impossible, but that's some work), so you will still have to use the vanilla zoom for cockpit work. But they are OK to spot outside or to have a glance at instrument.

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You have an alternative here (that add instantaneous 2x, 5x and 10X zoom, and other things for VR) : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242134

Unfortunately, mouse will not work with the additionnal zoom (not impossible, but that's some work), so you will still have to use the vanilla zoom for cockpit work. But they are OK to spot outside or to have a glance at instrument.

 

 

yes, we have; thanks to You and Your effort, but ED should implement it in core; the best way analog...


Edited by wju

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Another big +1 for better VR zoom. The current 2x or whatever is is fine for looking around in the pit, but I think a 5x or 10x would be far better for target spotting.

 

Also, consider the same maginification limits for flat screen as VR. IF VR gets 2x, flat screen gets 2x.

 

Also I want a better VR NVG overlay, gimmie my TP tube with green cellophane on it.

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Also, consider the same maginification limits for flat screen as VR. IF VR gets 2x, flat screen gets 2x.

But VR is already life sized whereas a monitor’s view isn’t. Fully zoomed in on a desktop sized screen is about 1:1 scale. So monitors don’t have an excessive zoom level. Plus the zoom view is simply trading one advantage for another so it’s self regulating.

A large magnification in VR would probably make people sick anyways.

 

I don’t think most players would agree on handicapping all the non VR users down to that level.

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Well, you seem fine with handicapping VR guys, who already have spotting issues.

 

And the way to avoid "sickness" in VR is to just have the center FOV magnified as is seen in a VR mod, that breaks every time DCS is updated.

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Well, you seem fine with handicapping VR guys, who already have spotting issues.

VR headsets will improve in time. But fine, go ahead and give it a better zoom view, but don’t handicap other players.


Edited by SharpeXB

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The best and "only" way to avoid VR sickness is to make sure you have enough FPS. meaning you need a minimum of 45 on each eye = 90fps in total. The more fps the better.

If you have to low fps this will often result in sickness.

 

Some vr headsets are worse than others.

Example Ocolus rift its very important with high enough fps to avoid vr sickness, while Pimax 4k and 5k you can play dcs with 30 fps without having a single issue and it show vr perfect anyway.

However the lower the fps, the slower the VR zoom.

Just saying the vr headset used is of big importance in vr sickness.

 

And in my experience VR zoom is really only usefull for reading things in the cockpit or spotting things on the ground.. In the air i think the distance that other planes are visible are like 8nm-10nm so people who pay via an ordinary monitor have a clear advantage i think.

 

( i use the ingame dcs fps counter )

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But VR is already life sized whereas a monitor’s view isn’t. Fully zoomed in on a desktop sized screen is about 1:1 scale. So monitors don’t have an excessive zoom level. Plus the zoom view is simply trading one advantage for another so it’s self regulating.

A large magnification in VR would probably make people sick anyways.

 

I don’t think most players would agree on handicapping all the non VR users down to that level.

 

Sounds like you’ve never experienced the difference in zoom capabilities between a monitor and vr. The difference that it makes to identification is HUGE,and it’s very much in favour of monitor users.

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Both monitor and VR user here. The Zoom option is Hugely in favor of monitor right now, by a wide margin.

 

It basically let you ID a target from +10/12 mn away. A VR user wont be even close to ID another Aircraft until 4/5 mn. So it is more than double.

 

Don't know what this handicap this one or the other came from, since it is quite absurd any handicap just because you pick one or other display option, but for sure the VR zoom would love some enhancement, not just to be on par with a monitor but to cut that difference a bit.

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Sounds like you’ve never experienced the difference in zoom capabilities between a monitor and vr. The difference that it makes to identification is HUGE,and it’s very much in favour of monitor users.

Well give VR a bigger magnification then. Don’t take it away from the monitor.

 

I’m guessing that the way the zoom view works in VR, an analog axis won’t work. It’s not just enlarging a 2D image. VR could have different steps or settings though perhaps.

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Well give VR a bigger magnification then. Don’t take it away from the monitor.

 

I’m guessing that the way the zoom view works in VR, an analog axis won’t work. It’s not just enlarging a 2D image. VR could have different steps or settings though perhaps.

 

Have to say that I don’t really care how they do it, just as long as parity exists, as otherwise multiplayer combat gives a significant advantage to monitor users.

As an example, I’ve been shot down by an enemy plane on the BS server well before being able to identify it.

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Have to say that I don’t really care how they do it, just as long as parity exists, as otherwise multiplayer combat gives a significant advantage to monitor users.

As an example, I’ve been shot down by an enemy plane on the BS server well before being able to identify it.

ED isn’t going to reduce or handicap features in the game. Expecting that is pretty unreasonable.

 

VR tech as it currently exists is a disadvantage. That’s just something you need to deal with, nobody is forcing you to use VR in competitive gameplay. Eventually the headsets will have better resolution and zoom view won’t be needed at all.

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ED isn’t going to reduce or handicap features in the game. Expecting that is pretty unreasonable.

 

VR tech as it currently exists is a disadvantage. That’s just something you need to deal with, nobody is forcing you to use VR in competitive gameplay. Eventually the headsets will have better resolution and zoom view won’t be needed at all.

 

You argue that we shouldn’t handicap monitor users and then say that it’s ok for vr users to be handicapped and that we should just live with it!

 

Are you being serious?

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You argue that we shouldn’t handicap monitor users and then say that it’s ok for vr users to be handicapped and that we should just live with it!

 

Are you being serious?

Sure, give VR a larger zoom view. That’s fine

But asking for zoom view to be reduced on monitors is unreasonable. The level of zoom view on DCS is pretty consistent with other flight sims, it’s not excessive. I doubt very much that ED would change this just to “balance” the game.

 

And in the end everyone has to live with their hardware limitations. That’s PC gaming. It’s impossible to balance players based on their hardware


Edited by SharpeXB

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It’s impossible to balance players based on their hardware

It really isn't, especially not for something as simple as display hardware. This has been explained to you quite extensively.

 

Ideally, at the end of the day, zoom shouldn't exist at all, but until then the aim should be to normalise the viewing capabilities across all hardware. At the moment, this rather means that VR should allow for a much higher zoom range than 2D — the fact that the opposite is the case is quite ridiculous. At most, 2D display modes should be able to zoom out more to compensate for their limited FoV, but that's about it.


Edited by Tippis

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It really isn't, especially not for something as simple as display hardware.

Yes it is. There are a huge variety of display sizes and resolutions, even within VR there is a wide range of capabilities. How would ED make all these players “equal”?

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Yes it is. There are a huge variety of display sizes and resolutions, even within VR there is a wide range of capabilities. How would ED make all these players “equal”?

 

I don't really care one way or the other about VR vs. monitor zoom, but it seems pretty silly to first agree that VR users are at a general disadvantage because of different zoom levels allowed by ED, and then immediately also say that it's impossible to balance zoom levels. Either both are true or neither are. You're arguing against yourself.

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Yes it is. There are a huge variety of display sizes and resolutions

…which can be compensated for as has been explained to you in detail, making it far from impossible to balance out different display hardware. Especially if we're dealing with such a completely arbitrary and artificial constraint as zoom levels. All you have to do is decide on a normalised display size range that should exist across the board — very simple maths takes care of the rest.

 

Also, as noted earlier, this “huge variety of display sizes and resolutions” isn't nearly as huge as you believe it to be. It's just that your personal estimates are off by a factor of 20.


Edited by Tippis

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