Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods

The shift registers installed from the factory PCBs on the Suncom are not compatible with the Warthog, hence the replacement boards Debo was making. Ergo, there's no way to directly go from Suncom to Warthog without a change in PCB.

I have Talon version that has 4 "hat" switches (but they are 4-way position, not 8-way as normal HAT plus 4 buttons.

An clarification, joysticks don't use HAT with 8 physical buttons (tactile micro switches), but just with 4. An "8 way POV HAT" is the controller firmware translating 2 nearest buttons (of 4 buttons HAT) pressed simultaneous as diagonals, achieving "8 ways".

Hence Talon 4 (switches) HAT is OK for use as 4 way or 8 way.

What I am looking for is, whether there is some PCB schematics how to wire and solder the switches so they would be compatible with Warthog base.

All you need know and parts you need get is described in this (Debolestis) topic:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2943388&postcount=113

Read that topic carefully, you will do the exact same thing, just in different grip.

Then disassemble Talon grip, de-solder or cut all wires from original PCB near existing switches.

"Easy, fast, ugly way" - without make or buy an new PCB for top HAT buttons, but re-using the original:

Take a X-Acto hobby knife (or similar) or a Dremel cut disk (or similar) and cut all PCB trails in original PCB. This will leave all buttons (switches) non interconnected and you can use the small button (selector) as just an additional button.

Now for each existing switch (HAT use 4) solder the two wires of cables with connector mentioned in above linked topic (parts). Assure that cables length reach the "shift register" PCB that will be placed lower inside grip.

Place the "shift register" PCB (2 chips) inside grip and plug in then the cables with connector soldered in switches.

Now fit the new 3D printed "neck" and the Warthog compatible nut grip base and assembly the PS2 connector per link instructions, connecting their 5 wires in "shift register" PCB output connections.

Done, your F-15'ish grip is now compatible with Warthog (Cougar and VPC) base.

Drawback: The switch in left side, middle of grip in original Suncom is just a press button, case you don't replace then with a 5 way Alps switch. And Suncon original HAT's is a bit "mushy" due a spring under caps.

"Neat way" - Buy new PCB for top of grip (from Debolestis) or DIY one, buy Alps 8 way switches (ironically they will be wired as 4 buttons), and solder the new switches in the new PCB include one in middle/left of grip - now you can use this switch as 3 way like in original.

The example for the B-8 stick won't work with the Suncom. there isn't enough room in the grip for the shift register board. Especially with how the trigger is part of the big original board in the grip. The shift registers need to be 90 degrees from the position they are on the Dibolestis shift register boards.

RustBelt,

Strange, in this topic Debolestis say that their Shift Register PCB fit:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2789660&postcount=13

Anyway that topic OP use Thrustmaster Shift Register PCB removed from Warthog grip, an option (buy an PCB from Tm). Unfortunately the picture of inside grip are not working anymore.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2786922

An clarification, joysticks don't use HAT with 8 physical buttons (tactile micro switches), but just with 4. An "8 way POV HAT" is the controller firmware translating 2 nearest buttons (of 4 buttons HAT) pressed simultaneous as diagonals, achieving "8 ways".

 

Hence Talon 4 (switches) HAT is OK for use as 4 way or 8 way.

 

 

 

All you need know and parts you need get is described in this (Debolestis) topic:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2943388&postcount=113

 

Read that topic carefully, you will do the exact same thing, just in different grip.

 

Then disassemble Talon grip, de-solder or cut all wires from original PCB near existing switches.

 

"Easy, fast, ugly way" - without make or buy an new PCB for top HAT buttons, but re-using the original:

 

Take a X-Acto hobby knife (or similar) or a Dremel cut disk (or similar) and cut all PCB trails in original PCB. This will leave all buttons (switches) non interconnected and you can use the small button (selector) as just an additional button.

 

Now for each existing switch (HAT use 4) solder the two wires of cables with connector mentioned in above linked topic (parts). Assure that cables length reach the "shift register" PCB that will be placed lower inside grip.

 

Place the "shift register" PCB (2 chips) inside grip and plug in then the cables with connector soldered in switches.

 

Now fit the new 3D printed "neck" and the Warthog compatible nut grip base and assembly the PS2 connector per link instructions, connecting their 5 wires in "shift register" PCB output connections.

 

Done, your F-15'ish grip is now compatible with Warthog (Cougar and VPC) base.

 

Drawback: The switch in left side, middle of grip in original Suncom is just a press button, case you don't replace then with a 5 way Alps switch. And Suncon original HAT's is a bit "mushy" due a spring under caps.

 

"Neat way" - Buy new PCB for top of grip (from Debolestis) or DIY one, buy Alps 8 way switches (ironically they will be wired as 4 buttons), and solder the new switches in the new PCB include one in middle/left of grip - now you can use this switch as 3 way like in original.

I am aware that HAT uses 4 buttons, just my suncom under (both?) "hats" has cross-shaped groove for the HAT's shaft that prevents it from pressing 2 buttons at a time. At least china-hat is alike.

Anyway thanks, it seems that this is what I was looking for. I have seen that post and was unable to find it again.

The example for the B-8 stick won't work with the Suncom. there isn't enough room in the grip for the shift register board. Especially with how the trigger is part of the big original board in the grip. The shift registers need to be 90 degrees from the position they are on the Dibolestis shift register boards.

Well, I am still thinking about making box similar to real F-15 that would be used for the main PCB. It would also serve as an extension. Thus internal space would not be a problem.

OK, time for some study, drawing board, parts-shopping etc. But holidays are coming, so it is just fine. :smartass:

I am aware that HAT uses 4 buttons, just my suncom under (both?) "hats" has cross-shaped groove for the HAT's shaft that prevents it from pressing 2 buttons at a time. At least china-hat is alike.

;)

http://theseger.com/projects/2014/04/converting-old-joysticks/

;)

 

http://theseger.com/projects/2014/04/converting-old-joysticks/

I know :)

As I am still making plans for this project I even hit one little nasty hole: As a collector item these joysticks are not cheap anymore. Thus comes little devil with question: "Do you really want to touch your one and cut down its value? When it is closer and closer to the new grip made by Virpil(?) :cry:"

:D

Thus I am even playing with idea to use the grip parts to make a form and cast a resin copy (although modified and not 100% exact one) and use it for the whole project. I'll see

Couple of years ago I barely missed a chance to buy a whole Suncom HOTAS set for cheap. I was quite unhappy that time, now I try not to even think about it :D:D:D

On the other hand, I bought once my 2nd MS Sidewinder FF2 (so I have 2 now), it was a dust collector and now I am happy that I did it.

Collect? I have 4 or 5 Suncom - one I buy (used), others donated, soon or latter they will end in "recycle bin". :)

Leave the HAT as 4 way. 8 ways HAT are useful back in time when flight games cockpit don't have 3D and are need use snap views.

IMHO - Use a HAT diagonal for some command is not practical because sometimes one of two buttons necessary for generate the diagonal is pressed before and the result is not what is expected.

Collect? I have 4 or 5 Suncom - one I buy (used), others donated, soon or latter they will end in "recycle bin". :)

 

Leave the HAT as 4 way. 8 ways HAT are useful back in time when flight games cockpit don't have 3D and are need use snap views.

 

IMHO - Use a HAT diagonal for some command is not practical because sometimes one of two buttons necessary for generate the diagonal is pressed before and the result is not what is expected.

4/8-way: I know. I was just trying to set it in Il-2 BOS to some view commands and I suffered in attempts to make correct double-press. Most of the time instead of 45 degree 2-button press I got 0 or 90 degree single ones. As I have TrackIR and TM TWCS Throttle with 8-way HAT this is not an issue. It is better idea to modify thumb button into 4-way HAT as on real grip. That will be much more useful.

Well, I am still thinking about making box similar to real F-15 that would be used for the main PCB. It would also serve as an extension. Thus internal space would not be a problem.

"Extension box". :)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_2018_08/WP_20180815_09_05_23_Pro.thumb.jpg.627b51715507c9508103a7f22bee3705.jpg

"Extension box". :)

 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_2018_08/WP_20180815_09_05_23_Pro.thumb.jpg.627b51715507c9508103a7f22bee3705.jpg

Looks great. Btw., do you know what purpose serve that lever in the US planes? In russian ones it is brake but US one usually use brake on rudder pedals (if I am right).

It even increase options like use some hi-end gimbal and wire the grip not to TM boards but to use separate controller like LeoBodnar's and increase number of buttons and even some axis above what TM grips have.

Paddle lever use varies if (USAF) aircraft are on ground or in air, and if other automation are ON, examples:

F-15:

F-18:

Nose wheel disengage

Autopilot disengage

G limit override switch

F-14:

Autopilot emergency disengage

So this just popped up on Amazon...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NAY2Q6O?ref_=pfb_4e8gb5dn9abi11geaja5757egcgm&tag=fbmeffdrhr-bd-20&ascsubtag=pfb-P05-V01-O5-X99-HI-9EIZSG&fbclid=IwAR1KH9MBydw8t1QM-WXmShzTjnZZ1apa6cnTHqApJVHqGM86tCyeIVutJqw

Seems like a nice small package. Will these work with a Bodnar board? I'm Scrutineering the parts for an SFS rebuild.

Looks like standard thumbstick. It should work.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NAY2Q6O?ref_=pfb_4e8gb5dn9abi11geaja5757egcgm&tag=fbmeffdrhr-bd-20&ascsubtag=pfb-P05-V01-O5-X99-HI-9EIZSG&fbclid=IwAR1KH9MBydw8t1QM-WXmShzTjnZZ1apa6cnTHqApJVHqGM86tCyeIVutJqw

 

Seems like a nice small package. Will these work with a Bodnar board? I'm Scrutineering the parts for an SFS rebuild.

The "advantage" of this thumbstick is be mounted in a PCB - but this became a disadvantage for fit inside a joystick due the big footprint in PCB.

Since is a ordinary analog thumbstick will work with L.Bodnar or any joystick controller with analog inputs.

I was working on new CAM gimbal lately, I had some free time. I wanted to see if my Prusa MK3s printer is capable of printing parts that are strong enough. After month of testing I must say that I am satisfied, still works like on first day, nothing is broken.

I used mostly standard M4, M5 and M6 screws and bolts, washers, 12 ball bearings, two springs and some bras threaded inserts. Except screws and bolts I bough everything on eBay. Sensors are GVL 224. I have bought two 5011 as well but I still need to test them. I have two rubber boots from FLCS and F22 that were donated to me, they are hard to find and I couldn't find proper replacement for them. They help a lot with dampening.

Since it is 3D printed I made it a bit bigger, I doesn't mind but maybe I'll make enclosure smaller in the future. It will need some minor modifications but I think it is mostly finished.

I must say that I didn't invent anything here, this is basically Baur BRD / WarBRD gimbal.

I am sorry for bad image quality.

This is gorgeous !

BRAVO!

This makes me really want a 3D printer!

Thank you!

Now I am planing to print new throttle. Did anybody see something about that on forums?

Nice work! I believe in if you build it thick and print it at 100% infill it will be strong. What filament are you using on the dark grey pieces?

Good job on CAM gimbal. :thumbup:

Single throttle grip in Github:

https://github.com/o-devices/throttle-quadrant

Nice work! I believe in if you build it thick and print it at 100% infill it will be strong. What filament are you using on the dark grey pieces?

I actualy printed on 20% giroid infill, 4 perimeters, and 0,3 mm layer hight (draft option) on 0.4 mm nozzle. I used 100% before but it is really not necessary and takes so much more time. I only printed cams on 100%. Enclosure was on 10%. Dark grey material is Prusamet Galaxy black PLA.

Good job on CAM gimbal. :thumbup:

 

Single throttle grip in Github:

https://github.com/o-devices/throttle-quadrant

Thank you Sokol, I saw this before, that is nice grip. Is there something on throttle mechanics?

I actualy printed on 20% giroid infill, 4 perimeters, and 0,3 mm layer hight (draft option) on 0.4 mm nozzle. I used 100% before but it is really not necessary and takes so much more time. I only printed cams on 100%. Enclosure was on 10%. Dark grey material is Prusamet Galaxy black PLA.

Ok I was thinking of the speckled look that is was some form of carbon fiber filament. I know 100% infill is way overkill. And takes to long I have only done that on parts that I wanted to make extremely rigid. Have you tried other materials for printing? I went on a filament journey trying to find something more robust to print with. But nothing prints better or I feel more reliable then PLA. I guess unless your printer supports different material its a tweak fest trying to find the perfect setup. I have replaced my nozzle from a .4mm to a .8mm nozzle and it cuts print times in half. Since I do mostly structural based prints I didn't feel a need for .4mm nozzle. Had to tweak the heat and speed a little for more material leaving the nozzle.

Is there something on throttle mechanics?

Don't see any, but I think the ideal is 3D print something like GVL224 mechanics.