Theoretical Dumb Question?

How hard do you suppose it would be to make the missile mounts rotatable in fast flight so if you have a enemy on you six, it could fire a missile backwards at the aircraft for defensive purposes. If rotating them is not feasible then have a few missiles pointed backwards for defense. I can't imaging we don't have the radar and engineering technology today to do something like this. Even have a second guy as a backseat do deal with enemy threats on your six so the pilot can just fly and evade.

There is probably a logical reason why they don't do this but can't really think of any at the moment.

It's already been trialled.

http://www.aero-farm.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=221766&an=&page=31&vc=1

But these days over-the-shoulder shots are possible with LOAL missiles anyway. The rearward mount doesn't really help because the aircraft is still flying forwards and rotating a pylon with a missile is tricky because of its length, so you would have to use up vital stores capacity with missiles pointing in the wrong direction.

why isnt anyone smart enough to equip every fighter with a gau-8 in a ball turret

boom dogfighting solved

But these days over-the-shoulder shots are possible with LOAL missiles anyway.

This. I know that the Eurofighter can use the IRIS-T missile and its incredible high maneuverability to engage targets at the 6 o'clock position. The missile can be fed with target information through the RWR suite of the Eurofighter to achieve this.

I guess other modern fighters might have similar capabilities.

This. I know that the Eurofighter can use the IRIS-T missile and its incredible high maneuverability missile to engage targets at the 6 o'clock position. The missile can be fed with target information through the RWR suite of the Eurofighter to achieve this.

 

I guess other modern fighters might have similar capabilities.

On 11 June 2007, a MICA launched from a Rafale successfully demonstrated its over-the-shoulder capability by destroying a target behind the launch aircraft. The target was designated by another aircraft and coordinates were transmitted by Link 16.[7]

AIM-9X (block 2) and R-74 supposedly can do the same

AIM-9X (block 2) and R-74 supposedly can do the same

The R-74M2 variant supposedly can but the R-74 is limited to +/-60deg and the R-74M +/-75deg. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the M2 is operational yet though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-73_(missile)

An improved version of the R-74, the K-74M (izdeliye 750) features fully digital and re-programmable systems, and is intended for use on the MiG-35 or MiG-29K/M/M2 and Su-27SM, Su-30MK and Su-35S. A further upgrade, known as the K-74M2 (izdeliye 760), is intended for the fifth-generation Sukhoi Su-57 aircraft. This missile has reduced cross section to fit in internal weapon bays and will match the performance of the AIM-9X and the ASRAAM. A clean sheet design, the K-MD (izdeliye 300), will supersede the K-74M2 in the future.

Theoretical dumb counter-question:

Why is your bandit behind you to begin with, and if so, why are you wasting time trying to lock onto him rather than doing your best defense so that your wing-man can save you?

There is probably a logical reason why they don't do this but can't really think of any at the moment.

And why haven't you taken them out BVR?:lol:

You don't need to mount missile backward

Theoretical dumb counter-question:

 

Why is your bandit behind you to begin with, and if so, why are you wasting time trying to lock onto him rather than doing your best defense so that your wing-man can save you?

Well, he wouldn't have to go defensive if he could just shoot the bandit that is at his 6 o'clock.

That bandit gets first shot.

Well, he wouldn't have to go defensive if he could just shoot the bandit that is at his 6 o'clock.

How hard do you suppose it would be to make the missile mounts rotatable in fast flight so if you have a enemy on you six, it could fire a missile backwards at the aircraft for defensive purposes. If rotating them is not feasible then have a few missiles pointed backwards for defense. I can't imaging we don't have the radar and engineering technology today to do something like this. Even have a second guy as a backseat do deal with enemy threats on your six so the pilot can just fly and evade.

 

There is probably a logical reason why they don't do this but can't really think of any at the moment.

A problem would be, that if you fire a missile backwards it would need to accelerate against your own speed. When launched from an open rail this might be pretty difficult as the missile would have to instantaneously boost to positive speed. That would be different if the missile gets launched within a tube mount.

if you ever think you've come up with a fresh idea

it just means you're ignorant

Nice find! :lol:

The real question is, if you have a bandit on your 6 why aren't you dead yet?

In the age of thrust vectored IR imaging HOBS missiles I seriously doubt anyone will push a merge with guns. If he has missiles you're simply dead.

The real question is, if you have a bandit on your 6 why aren't you dead yet?

 

In the age of thrust vectored IR imaging HOBS missiles I seriously doubt anyone will push a merge with guns. If he has missiles you're simply dead.

Unless you're out of range for him... and if your backfiring missiles have a higher range than those of the bandit (they can fly towards the bandit head on and don't have to chase him) then you can profit.

Unless you're out of range for him... and if your backfiring missiles have a higher range than those of the bandit (they can fly towards the bandit head on and don't have to chase him) then you can profit.

The fact that they have to fly backwards remove a half to a full mach number worth of speed. So no, they won't be longer ranged, and if you consider just a sidewinder, you're removing about half of its maneuvering capability by doing this, and you also create a situation where the missile's WEZ is destroyed for short range launches.

The speed change is of some concern but not an overwhelming one. Missiles really don't like flying backward. Missiles absolutely do not flying with zero airspeed. Missiles absolutely do not like going from backward, to not flying, to flying forward in a brief time while trying to intercept an uncooperative target.

With LOAL datalink and improved maneuverability it's much better to launch forward and just have them turn around.

That's also an issue with the cobra manoeuvre where missiles would go from flying sideways to flying forwards.

That bandit gets first shot.

The Rafale + Mica test concluded that the Mica making its U turn would still have a range advantage over a Fox 2 in the 6 o’oclock of launching aircraft.

That's just a meaningless blanket statement jojo. There's no advantage if the bandit's 3000'-6000' off your 6. Maybe 12000', but even then.

The launch platform vs target speed differential and distance are the same for both missiles but the missile being fired OTS has to do a 180deg turn, so it can't possibly have an advantage unless it has a massive inherent kinematic advantage besides.

Su-33 or 35 (I forget which) was supposed to have tube launched rearward firing Archers... Dunno if anyone ever showed that they were real or whether it was Intelligence telling us there was a bogeyman.

I do know for certain that 135degree off-boresight launches are within envelope using HMS

oh yeah sure just like the fabled rear facing radar in the su-34 right?

That's just a meaningless blanket statement jojo. There's no advantage if the bandit's 3000'-6000' off your 6. Maybe 12000', but even then.

Yeah, I know, not US made = meaningless :doh: