Pitching Deck

How to get this?

It is as simple as cranking up the surface level wind to 30kts??

Any wind speed will make the ship pitch.

Wind over deck > 30KTS AND turbulence "6" (six) makes landing impossible,

somehow the F18 rises about 12 feet just behind the tower

Wind Over Deck 32Kts (Carrier speed 14, wind 18, turbulence 3, I've done,

#3 wire, I find it rather easy with the ICLS.

Don't follow the ICLS when deck pitching,

look at the deck, and watch how the ICLS horizontal, oscillates, moves up and down with the heaving of the deck,

keep your F18 steady in between the osculations

(look 'behind' the ICLS and perform your #3 wire trap)

Have a look when on the deck with outside view F2, the heaving deck is quite the sight. My F18 also moves around a bit even when on the brakes.

Think your landing would be a wave off in real life since you have a red ball already well before arriving at the edge of the deck.

S(since there are no LSO's to correct, i already had a lot red ball landings too. Who needs them anyway?

.. Think your landing would be a wave off in real life since you have a red ball already well before arriving at the edge of the deck.

..

You're confusing the perspective of the camera in the video capture.

The ball Fresnel setup is designed in such a way that the status of the indicator ball can only be correctly viewed from the pilot's seat.

The ball in this video capture from the pilot's seat was smack in the middle when trapping #3.

BTW. when there's a 'pitching deck' situation (I found) one doesn't follow the ICLS indicator, which is oscillating up and down with the pitching, heaving and rolling deck,

when in a 'pitching deck' situation, you look at the location of the deck as a whole and as the center of all the sea state induces oscillation, and it’s the ICLS indicators that one will let oscillate in the HUD.

You're confusing the perspective of the camera in the video capture.

 

The ball Fresnel setup is designed in such a way that the status of the indicator ball can only be correctly viewed from the pilot's seat.

 

The ball in this video capture from the pilot's seat was smack in the middle when trapping #3.

 

BTW. when there's a 'pitching deck' situation (I found) one doesn't follow the ICLS indicator, which is oscillating up and down with the pitching, heaving and rolling deck,

when in a 'pitching deck' situation, you look at the location of the deck as a whole and as the center of all the sea state induces oscillation, and it’s the ICLS indicators that one will let oscillate in the HUD.

 

 

I don'T wanna take is side but You'Re right on the ball i presume, the camera view shows higher ball when you're on the deck besided it and should be same level, meaning if you see it red on final, you're even even lower, in any cases, with the overlaying HUD view on the left of your airplane, you can clearly see you'Re getting crossing the glidepath at 0.4 nm and start sinking around 0.2 nm as the path marker is below the ILS needle, but nice pass in any cases with those windy conditions :)

 

… in any cases, with the overlaying HUD view on the left of your airplane, you can clearly see you'Re getting crossing the glidepath at 0.4 nm and start sinking around 0.2 nm as the path marker is below the ILS needle, but nice pass in any cases with those windy conditions

 

 

Let me repeat myself ('pitching deck', winds 18 kts, boat speed 14 kts, turbulence "3").

In 'pitching deck' condition one does not and cannot follow the ICLS horizontal (I found).

The explanation for this goes like this,

a. When carrier bow pitched up (as in 10-15 feet or more) your AOA will be too low and the arresting hook will float above the deck, you’ll bolt

b. When carrier bow pitched down (as in 10-15 feet or more) the landing spot rises - the worse the sea state the faster this will happen, not just the pitch of the carrier but the whole deck will rise- and, your wheels will touch the heaved deck before wire #1, you’ll bolt

An example of b.

if you watch the HUD of the video,

- At a couple of plane lengths of the stern at 20’’ into to YT, the HUD shows a F18 exactly on the ICLS crosshairs.

- Then the slope bar starts to rise fast, indicating a bow pitching down the wave, which means heaving the deck at the position of the cables (rapidly, in this sea state).

- The AOA will now be too high

- the whole deck is also moving upwards

- the arresting hook hits the deck premature

- the wheels touch the deck before cable #1

- this results in a bolter

(all them flames supposed to be the gear wheels hitting the cables really hard because the deck is coming up, which by-the-way is big kudo's to DCS for a impressive simulator modeling).

One has to anticipate the oscillation of the deck, which can be done by carefully observing the ICLS needles movement in the HUD when in the groove and when with a steady pitch held.

Wind over deck > 30KTS AND turbulence "6" (six) makes landing impossible,

somehow the F18 rises about 12 feet just behind the tower

 

Wind Over Deck 32Kts (Carrier speed 14, wind 18, turbulence 3, I've done,

 

#3 wire, I find it rather easy with the ICLS.

 

Don't follow the ICLS when deck pitching,

 

look at the deck, and watch how the ICLS horizontal, oscillates, moves up and down with the heaving of the deck,

 

keep your F18 steady in between the osculations

 

(look 'behind' the ICLS and perform your #3 wire trap)

 

Have a look when on the deck with outside view F2, the heaving deck is quite the sight. My F18 also moves around a bit even when on the brakes.

 

 

what do you call turbulence '6' ? and also, wind over deck is relative wind of the carrier plus true wind ?

Can you share your mission ? I'd like to try it

what do you call turbulence '6' ? and also, wind over deck is relative wind of the carrier plus true wind ?

 

Can you share your mission ? I'd like to try it

Turbulence is in the weather option of the ME. Set too high and you won't be able to land (I think to remember DCS said they're working on that WOD >30 kts and added turbulence won't help, will it now).

Turbulence is .1x windspeed per feet (or yard? meter? altitude) or something. Set above 6 and you'll have problems.

I noticed when boat speed set to 14 the speed in the status bar mentioned 12, which can be the result of modeling head wind.

WOD is exactly that, wind over the deck, where in RL the carrier will point into the wind when excepting landings (which lets say might vary 0-5/10°, the ship steadying its course and or the winds changing).

Thus the WOD will be boat speed + modelled wind speed,

minus the vector of 10° that the landing strip is angled to the boat hull, plus or minus the possible discrepancy between actual ship heading and actual wind direction of another 0-5°,

add turbulence wind shift direction and turbulence winds force, add the added effect of the lee of the superstructure island at high winds which will most likely adds added vertical movement, the lee of the stern itself will have added effects when coming up or down, effecting possibilities on the aircraft both up and down, the whole deck pitching adds another component of wind force that is obstacled by a pitched deck, up or down, heaving or falling deck will add another wind (obstacle and or sudden vacuum) component. And oh, now we're on the subject, lets not forget, when in high sea state, also add effects of roll and yaw of the deck ...

Also, in general, like a RL pilot mentioned, the deck, and the landing strip, is 'moving away from the aircraft descending, at an angle of the ships course and into the wind and the landing strip on the deck will move parallel rightwards'. For which high winds will exact additional compensation when descending.

Attached the original “Caucasus FA-18C Case I Carrier Landing.miz” (from somebody), add wind, boat speed & turbulence, mission is “Behind the USS Stennis at 8 nm. Carrier Heading 360 degrees TACAN 1X STN ICLS on channel 1".

Put the F18 also a bit further away like 12-16 miles, gives you time to setup the DDI’s, TCN, ICLS.

Caucasus FA-18C Case I Carrier Landing.miz

Pitching deck.

In 1967, in the Med on the Shangri-La, an F-8 Crusader was coming in to land. Just as he got to the stern, the stern rose up just enough to sheer off his landing gear. He went sliding down the angle deck, with what was left of the struts on fire from the friction. As he cleared the deck, he ejected. The plane, and he, both went into the water. He was picked up moments later by the plane guard helicopter, and deposited on the flight deck. I was standing just aft of the island, and watched the whole thing happen right in front of me.

Turbulence is in the weather option of the ME. Set too high and you won't be able to land (I think to remember DCS said they're working on that WOD >30 kts and added turbulence won't help, will it now).

 

Turbulence is .1x windspeed per feet (or yard? meter? altitude) or something. Set above 6 and you'll have problems.

 

I noticed when boat speed set to 14 the speed in the status bar mentioned 12, which can be the result of modeling head wind.

 

WOD is exactly that, wind over the deck, where in RL the carrier will point into the wind when excepting landings (which lets say might vary 0-5/10°, the ship steadying its course and or the winds changing).

 

Thus the WOD will be boat speed + modelled wind speed,

 

minus the vector of 10° that the landing strip is angled to the boat hull, plus or minus the possible discrepancy between actual ship heading and actual wind direction of another 0-5°,

 

add turbulence wind shift direction and turbulence winds force, add the added effect of the lee of the superstructure island at high winds which will most likely adds added vertical movement, the lee of the stern itself will have added effects when coming up or down, effecting possibilities on the aircraft both up and down, the whole deck pitching adds another component of wind force that is obstacled by a pitched deck, up or down, heaving or falling deck will add another wind (obstacle and or sudden vacuum) component. And oh, now we're on the subject, lets not forget, when in high sea state, also add effects of roll and yaw of the deck ...

 

Also, in general, like a RL pilot mentioned, the deck, and the landing strip, is 'moving away from the aircraft descending, at an angle of the ships course and into the wind and the landing strip on the deck will move parallel rightwards'. For which high winds will exact additional compensation when descending.

 

Attached the original “Caucasus FA-18C Case I Carrier Landing.miz” (from somebody), add wind, boat speed & turbulence, mission is “Behind the USS Stennis at 8 nm. Carrier Heading 360 degrees TACAN 1X STN ICLS on channel 1".

 

Put the F18 also a bit further away like 12-16 miles, gives you time to setup the DDI’s, TCN, ICLS.

Listen, I do not understand why you say that the landing above 6 is not possible.

I thook the VFA-113 caseI mission, and added 18kts of headwind (with the 30kts of the carrier thats a 45kts headwind) and I set the turbulence quite high, at 65 in the game.

yes the deck is pitching a lot. yes, you need to anticipate it. yes your pattern needs to be adapted because of the headwind during your final turn, but its really doable.

here is a video of it, with the settings in the mission editor before going..

Pitching deck.

 

In 1967, in the Med on the Shangri-La, an F-8 Crusader was coming in to land. Just as he got to the stern, the stern rose up just enough to sheer off his landing gear. He went sliding down the angle deck, with what was left of the struts on fire from the friction. As he cleared the deck, he ejected. The plane, and he, both went into the water. He was picked up moments later by the plane guard helicopter, and deposited on the flight deck. I was standing just aft of the island, and watched the whole thing happen right in front of me.

dang !

Wind over deck > 30KTS AND turbulence "6" (six) makes landing impossible,

somehow the F18 rises about 12 feet just behind the tower

 

Wind Over Deck 32Kts (Carrier speed 14, wind 18, turbulence 3, I've done,

 

#3 wire, I find it rather easy with the ICLS.

 

Don't follow the ICLS when deck pitching,

 

look at the deck, and watch how the ICLS horizontal, oscillates, moves up and down with the heaving of the deck,

 

keep your F18 steady in between the osculations

 

(look 'behind' the ICLS and perform your #3 wire trap)

 

Have a look when on the deck with outside view F2, the heaving deck is quite the sight. My F18 also moves around a bit even when on the brakes.

 

 

Regardless of conditions, I don't think this isn't a good example. It looks like you're so far off being on-speed the E bracket has dropped well down the display. If you're at that high an AoA at 140kts, you're well overweight for landing also.

Regardless of conditions, I don't think this isn't a good example. It looks like you're so far off being on-speed the E bracket has dropped well down the display. If you're at that high an AoA at 140kts, you're well overweight for landing also.

Have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, my pitch was 13-14, my weight was high, like in real life with 2 wing tanks and missiles (watch RL YT's for that), my descent speed was also higher, because that is what a RL pilot does when you're heavy. Necessarily having to be on - standardized - speed which is a phrase copied from the present, unfinished, F18 experience, is quite limited thinking I'd say when you're at the top of the weight allowance. You try it.

BTW I think you were quite lucky in your landing, or perhaps I was unlucky, depends how the deck was moving, I floated above the deck in high turbulence and couldn't make contact with the deck, it just disappeared from under me. Putting the turbulence setting to '65' might have done the trick.

It appears you were more lucky being able to slam the aircraft on the deck at the right time when the deck was in more benign position, lucky you. Try a couple more.

Did a test with same above .miz. Wind set to 30kts, turbulence "32", boat speed 18.

Could land now, perhaps one of the last updates fixed all.

I did watch closely what the deck was doing when at the stern, where I saw the deck had arrived at the highest point coming up, so when I noticed it going down,

I hard pulled the throttle when coming over the wires and simply slammed the aircraft on the deck at the #3 wire.

Easy peasy (not sure about the landing gear).

Sea state was indeed quite horrible from the deck :)

Have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, my pitch was 13-14, my weight was high, like in real life with 2 wing tanks and missiles (watch RL YT's for that), my descent speed was also higher, because that is what a RL pilot does when you're heavy.

Sorry but that's not what a RL pilot would do. Max allowable gross weight for trapping is 34,000lbs. You can check your weight on the check list page.

You must also fly the correct on speed AoA. E bracket on the middle / orange doughnut on the indexer. No exceptions.

Give it another try, should be easier at the correct weight and speed.

Sorry but that's not what a RL pilot would do. Max allowable gross weight for trapping is 34,000lbs. You can check your weight on the check list page.

 

You must also fly the correct on speed AoA. E bracket on the middle / orange doughnut on the indexer. No exceptions.

 

Give it another try, should be easier at the correct weight and speed.

Have a look at some R|L videos or ask a pilot if they're allowed to dump their external tanks, which they're not, because you can watch them landing on the carrier with them (x2, as I did).

Try it one more time perhaps, or try a desk job?

Have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, my pitch was 13-14, my weight was high, like in real life with 2 wing tanks and missiles (watch RL YT's for that), my descent speed was also higher, because that is what a RL pilot does when you're heavy. Necessarily having to be on - standardized - speed which is a phrase copied from the present, unfinished, F18 experience, is quite limited thinking I'd say when you're at the top of the weight allowance. You try it.

 

BTW I think you were quite lucky in your landing, or perhaps I was unlucky, depends how the deck was moving, I floated above the deck in high turbulence and couldn't make contact with the deck, it just disappeared from under me. Putting the turbulence setting to '65' might have done the trick.

 

It appears you were more lucky being able to slam the aircraft on the deck at the right time when the deck was in more benign position, lucky you. Try a couple more.

I tried many more and even recorder them for you. I set the turbulence at 70 for the last time.

its tricky, you have to anticipate more, and fly the ball, but its doable. I can do it repeatedly. nothing to do with luck, but flying the proper procedure. respecting on speed AOA and glideslope. period

Look at this video and watch how the velocity vector dances around the AOA bracket ! For those wiling to only watch the groove, fast forward to 2.50min

Have a look at some R|L videos or ask a pilot if they're allowed to dump their external tanks, which they're not, because you can watch them landing on the carrier with them (x2, as I did).

 

Try it one more time perhaps, or try a desk job?

You don't need to dump your fuel tanks. Simply dump the FUEL through the purposely made system and switch. Look at my video. I am landing below 34000lb

talking about desk jobs....

I tried many more and even recorder them for you. I set the turbulence at 70 for the last time.

 

its tricky, you have to anticipate more, and fly the ball, but its doable. I can do it repeatedly.

 

Look at this video and watch how the velocity vector dances around the AOA bracket ! For those wiling to only watch the groove, fast forward to 2.50min

 

If you read 1 post above yours, I already mentioned upped my mission with no problem, perhaps DCS fixed my problems somewhere.

By the way you're flying with your eyes, I see no ICLS on, ... landing is good though.

You should uncage your HUD when lined up with the deck so you have reference to what you're doing.

(I can fly cessna's like this on FSX how you're flying)

If you read 1 post above yours, I already mentioned upped my mission with no problem, perhaps DCS fixed my problems somewhere.

 

By the way you're flying with your eyes, I see no ICLS on, ... landing is good though.

 

You should uncage your HUD when lined up with the deck so you have reference to what you're doing.

 

(I can fly cessna's like this on FSX how you're flying)

You don't use the ICLS when flying a visual pattern on a CASEI recovery. Thats what the ball is for.

I kept my hud caged because the true velocity vector is duplicated and you can see it on the right of the normal one. if uncaged with the wind, it would be out of sight.

Have a look at some R|L videos or ask a pilot if they're allowed to dump their external tanks, which they're not, because you can watch them landing on the carrier with them (x2, as I did).

 

Try it one more time perhaps, or try a desk job?

I wouldn't be so arrogant when you're not smart enough to figure out that in the RL situation those tanks are likely to be empty, unlike in your situation where I suspect they're close to full. Go ask a RL pilot if they're allowed to exceed the weight limits stated in the manual by several thousands of pounds. :doh:

I tried many more and even recorder them for you. I set the turbulence at 70 for the last time.

 

its tricky, you have to anticipate more, and fly the ball, but its doable. I can do it repeatedly.

 

Look at this video and watch how the velocity vector dances around the AOA bracket ! For those wiling to only watch the groove, fast forward to 2.50min

 

Good job, I'll have to give that a try.

.. unlike in your situation where I suspect they're close to full.

Nope.

Never mind facts, just dream on.

Nope.

Never mind facts, just dream on.

what was your weight on landing then ?