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A-10C Flight Performance Request to Fixed with DCS: A-10C II


Habu23

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I guess if both parties say they established contact on these things then it's good and not much we can do about that.

 

I didn't read any comments on the video there so I don't know what happened, so I'm still confused, but I guess that doesn't matter anymore.

 

Anyway, another reason was I wanted to replicate the manouvers later myself just to see how it feels to me, that can't be well explained on paper and it's not mentioned in the summary text either ... I guess I won't be doing that anymore, but I guess that doesn't matter anymore either.

 

How do we know when or how it's been adjusted if we don't have a good control case to compare it to? Do we rely on a few forum people confirming it or not, pretty much, then again it's always been like that, it can't realistically be any different, otherwise everyone in the community would have to become a real pilot, hehe.

 

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When simulating reality is the goal, that opens that world where it feels like there's no end to it, it attracts the kind of people who will strive for that obviously, but it's interesting how it goes both way, I was like that before DCS, but 5 years of being really around DCS and community has strengthened that even more, I like that a lot! However this kind of stuff is bound to happen and probably will in some other cases in the future, some old gentlement will claim he was a driver of some battle tank and he'll be posting about how the lever for the transmission has to go this and that way and the clutch doesn't feel right or something, I don't think any of this should be a surprise to anyone, someone's going to show up and find something more to improve on, that's great, but I've been speaking how it's something the community should be aware of and simply realize this reality, with that understanding, like myself, we wouldn't get upset when this happens, obviously most of that wasn't on this forum so I'm just saying in general, not associating one with the other.


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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A while back someone told me there's two Habu-s but one of them not being a pilot, perhaps nicknames were changed since then, don't know more.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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ADDED I did more digging this morning and it looks like what he have to do in accordance with our maintenance Tech Orders (1A-10C-2-71JG-2), which I listed below originally, is different than what is in the pilots checklist (1A-10C-1CL-1). Per the latest dash 1:

 

MOTOR is used for air-purging of excessive fuel, cooling the engine, or manual starting. When the switch is moved to MOTOR, the following actions are accomplished, provided electrical power and an air source are available:

- Air Turbine Starter (ATS) valve opens, causing the ENG START CYCLE light to come on

- ECS shutoff valve closes

- Both engine bleed air shutoff valves open.

 

The engine operate switches are powered by the DC essential bus.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

FYI, Motor switches work in the current DCS A-10C but not completely accurate, they work mirroring the procedures we have to follow in the maintenance TO procedures:

 

1. Battery Switch – ON

2. Inverter switch – STBY

3. APU switch – START

Wait for APU to reach 100%, non-loaded condition

4. APU GEN switch – PWR 5. Verify engine indications (ITT below 150 C, Core RPM 0%, oil press 0 psi) 6. #1 ENG OPER switch - MOTOR

- Verify ENGINE START CYCLE light is on, Core PRM and OIL PRESS indications increasing)

- at 24 to 28% CORE RPM

7. #1 ENG OPER switch – NORM

8. #1 Throttle over the hump

 

Repeat steps 5 through 8 for the #2 engine.

 

Comments in the video about Fuel Boost Pumps and Engine Generator switches. I can’t recall if I reported those years ago (along with a handful of other topics he mentions). Setting those switches is not actually part of our launch Work Cards but a I always set these switches (plus pulling up certain knobs on the intercom panel) prior to the pilot stepping.

 

During Pre-Flight Basic post Flight or Combined Basic Post Flight/Pre-Flight inspections it’s actually a carded item to make sure all switches are “off, safe, or normal” except main air and bleed air switches. If they’re not in Supply or Bleed and someone forgets to pin the external battery pin it will drain the battery.

 

Couple of the items mentioned in the video were reported back when I was a tester and mentioned again when I created the below thread. I hope between Habu validating them, and this being a direct result of a USAF contract they get addressed for A-10C 2, current A-10C, and where applicable A-10A.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260353


Edited by Snoopy
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Yeah there's a real A10 piolt who goes by Habu, the one here on the forums though is not the same guy he just so happened to pick that as his forum name.

 

:noexpression:

 

I decided to send reply to your PM.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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This thread makes me happy about the upcoming release of the upgrade. I wish I could see the video explaining all the things mentioned, but well, I guess I'll have to live with hopefully seeing the results on my rig in the end fsgrin.png

 

Maybe I should get back into the Hog prior as I never had that much time on it since DCS literally stopped running a few months after the module release on my end as the effect updates were just too heavy on AMD/ATi hardware back in the day and their driver support was lacking, to say the least. I've leant not to buy hardware from those anymore if I want to be on the DCS boat anywhere in the future...

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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  • ED Team

Dear all,

 

Based on feedback from legitimage SMEs and verifiable data, we have updated the the flight dynamics:

 

1- Buffet and wingrock no longer set in right at chopped tone. You can now retain nose authority at initial chopped tone. However, if you were to continue to increase AoA while in chopped tone, you eventually get buffet, wingrock, and stall.

 

2- Available G before chopped tone was increased by 1 G. As such, if you encountered chopped tone at 2 G, it will now manifest at 3 G under the same condition.

 

Together, we and the SMEs believe the A-10C will fly in a more realistic manner with improved performance.

 

Kind regards,

Wags


Edited by Wags
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Excitement levels have went through the roof, bring it on ED...

Hardware - Windows 10 Pro, Intel i9 11900kf stock, DeepCool LE520 water cooled, Gigabyte Z590 Gaming X, 64gb DDR4 3200, Gigabyte Aorus Master RTX 3070 TI 8gb, 480gb SSD & 500gb M.2 SSD for DCS World, HP Reverb G1 VR headset, Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas, throttle & TFRP Pedals.

Modules - A10C II, AH64D, BS3, C101, F5E, F15E, F16C, F/A18C, L-39, M2000C, MI24P, P47D, Supercarrier

Maps - Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria, Sinai, The Channel

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Great news Wags, thanks for sharing it.

 

Quick question if I may, will the A10-C see these changes too or just the A10-C II?


Edited by bart

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  • ED Team
Great news Wags, thanks for sharing it.

 

Quick question if I may, will the A10-C see these changes too or just the A10-C II?

 

Yes, it's also possible they will make it to the A-10A as well. As well, you might see these changes before the A-10C II is released.

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Yes, it's also possible they will make it to the A-10A as well. As well, you might see these changes before the A-10C II is released.

 

:thumbup:

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i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12 core, ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming, 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200MHz, 24GB Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 3090, 1x 500GB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, 1x 2TB Samsung 980 PRO M.2, Corsair 1000W RMx Series Modular 80 Plus Gold PSU, Windows 10. VIRPIL VPC WarBRD Base with HOTAS Warthog Stick and Warthog Throttle, VIRPIL ACE Interceptor Pedals, VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus Base with a Hawk-60 Grip, HP Reverb G2.

 

 

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Yes, it's also possible they will make it to the A-10A as well. As well, you might see these changes before the A-10C II is released.

 

EqyI.gif

https://media.tenor.com/videos/7616584b2eee5383ab5924be65304fb7/mp4


Edited by SmirkingGerbil

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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Dear all,

 

Based on feedback from legitimage SMEs and verifiable data, we have updated the the flight dynamics:

 

1- Buffet and wingrock no longer set in right at chopped tone. You can now retain nose authority at initial chopped tone. However, if you were to continue to increase AoA while in chopped tone, you eventually get buffet, wingrock, and stall.

 

2- Available G before chopped tone was increased by 1 G. As such, if you encountered chopped tone at 2 G, it will now manifest at 3 G under the same condition.

 

Together, we and the SMEs believe the A-10C will fly in a more realistic manner with improved performance.

 

Kind regards,

Wags

 

 

Its taken what 8+ years... man i'm just so happy right now; a big thanks to Wags and Habu for making this fix happen. After all the years of threads to finally, essentially be vindicated and to get a more accurate FM that will be more fun as well. The wait was long but the results should be worth it.

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Its taken what 8+ years... man i'm just so happy right now; a big thanks to Wags and Habu for making this fix happen. After all the years of threads to finally, essentially be vindicated and to get a more accurate FM that will be more fun as well. The wait was long but the results should be worth it.

 

It's a simulation and can always be better somewhere, ED could work on it for ever. It's still the best simulation of the A10 before (10 years ago) or after these upgrades. It's still now the best overall complete combat simulation aircraft on the sim market to this day without these upgrades (10 years).

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  • ED Team
Dear all,

 

Based on feedback from legitimage SMEs and verifiable data, we have updated the the flight dynamics:

 

1- Buffet and wingrock no longer set in right at chopped tone. You can now retain nose authority at initial chopped tone. However, if you were to continue to increase AoA while in chopped tone, you eventually get buffet, wingrock, and stall.

 

2- Available G before chopped tone was increased by 1 G. As such, if you encountered chopped tone at 2 G, it will now manifest at 3 G under the same condition.

 

Together, we and the SMEs believe the A-10C will fly in a more realistic manner with improved performance.

 

Kind regards,

Wags

 

I have to correct p.2 a bit: G-load (CL vs AoA) and chopped tone (vs AoA) relations were not changed as they were correct, but buffeting at low Mach numbers was shifted to post-stall region. High Mach buffeting starts now exactly with stall. So, now the piloting at near-stall AoA is way more pleasant adding about 0.2-0.3 g in comparison to the most precise piloting before the changes.

 

The first diagram is a V-g diagram of maximum g turn before changes in buffeting were applied. (V-g diagram is a recorded history of IAS and load factor plotted not versus time, but g is plotted vs V for the same moment).

 

The moving average shows the average g and, thus, the overall turning ability.

 

This test requires a lot of efforts to hold the plane at the edge of lift capacity.

 

The changed buffeting allows to easily keep pre-stall AoA (see the second chart for the same weight and altitude)

1349900147_InstturnSLV-gOLD.png.2c58498459ac1e5a837f64b5cc2b5a2d.png

1639947818_InstturnSLV-g.png.c9123dc6ff3f3645c36259a9386167c2.png


Edited by Yo-Yo
  • Like 1

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I have to correct p.2 a bit: G-load (CL vs AoA) and chopped tone (vs AoA) relations were not changed as they were correct, but buffeting at low Mach numbers was shifted to post-stall region. High Mach buffeting starts now exactly with stall. So, now the piloting at near-stall AoA is way more pleasant adding about 0.2-0.3 g in comparison to the most precise piloting before the changes.

 

The first diagram is a V-g diagram of maximum g turn before changes in buffeting were applied. (V-g diagram is a recorded history of IAS and load factor plotted not versus time, but g is plotted vs V in the same moment).

 

The moving average shows the average g and, thus, the overall turning ability.

 

This test requires a lot of efforts to hold the plane at the edge of lift capacity.

 

The changed buffeting allows to easily keep pre-stall AoA (see the second chart for the same weight and altitude)

 

For a layman such as myself, second graph means far more consistent performance (not necessarily speed) in handling, and less "nursing" the stick while riding just on the edge of a stall and hoping for the best??

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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  • ED Team
For a layman such as myself, second graph means far more consistent performance (not necessarily speed) in handling, and less "nursing" the stick while riding just on the edge of a stall and hoping for the best??

 

Absolutely right. Although at the second graph the elevator was not shown, the AoA indirectly shows that the stick was almost frozen after a while. The graphs are time histories for the same tests V-g diagrams were shown for.

1109166571_InstturnSLtimehistoryOLD.png.6a0c7a6654867fa3c69caf158512185d.png

1649292078_InstturnSLtimehistory.thumb.png.9c3dae482364a6b0b443ccdea6c2bdf6.png


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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It's still the best simulation of the A10 before (10 years ago) or after these upgrades. It's still now the best overall complete combat simulation aircraft on the sim market to this day without these upgrades (10 years).

 

I mean it is the only simulation of the A-10...

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