Why the verbosity on Reddit and not here?

Genuine question! COO, owner, even the forums moderators are a lot more chatty on reddit and there's been some absolutely huge posts there.

But not here, at home.

How come? Is it the sorting of Reddit that keeps relevant content at the top that shapes the view? It's just the OP's by Kate and Nick are pretty big, regardless of the subsequent commentary.

Agreed. Would be nice to have those posts sticky'ed here as well, in the "Official Updates" section of this very forum.

Maybe ED believes that the most vocal crowd is over on reddit, and that they have to cater to that noise? Dunno...

I stopped visiting reddit a while ago, got tired of the general rudeness of the typical poster. Here the ambient is much nicer.

I stopped visiting reddit a while ago, got tired of the general rudeness of the typical poster. Here the ambient is much nicer.

About a year ago the most popualr Reddit DCS group - "Hoggit" experienced a huge influx of new members doubling it's size in a very short period of time. Hoggit became a mess. Some of new people, very often without any sim background, started to blindly attack everything. ED managers had left Hoggit after hate and series of personal attacks. Hoggit has become a place of total, mostly unreasonable, attack and total criticism. Not for long.

Gradually, the least reasonable and most emotional critics and haters, who most often came into contact with DCS and simulators recently, burned out and left. Looks like after all this negativity in Hoggit group was just some strange emotonal episode.

For several months, everything has returned to normal, despite the influx of huge numbers of new members - now it has about 40,000 members. Hoggit is again balanced and rational, focuses rather on positives and people from ED have returned and maintain constructive relationships with this community.

I've read these forums and Hoggit for years, and I have to say that I'm kind of amazed by all the ED hate out there, and the general sense of entitlement among the very small but very vocal minority that expect to get everything they want, when they want it, usually for free.

Maybe this is an artifact of having been a kid in the Atari era -- when a game came out and it was what it was and was never gonna be fixed or improved -- but I'm kind of wowed by how much ED invests in constantly improving DCS. I know it is a business decision, and they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable, but even so... they could do a lot less and still get most of our simming dollars, being pretty much the only post-WWII serious military flight sim on the market. Hell, if they were one of the big-name game publishers, we'd be getting sold loot chests instead of being given free cockpit redesigns.

I also feel like they're pretty transparent about what we're getting. When I bought F/A-18C, I knew it wasn't finished. Beta means beta. But I decided it was worth my money as a Beta, and I've more than gotten my money's worth.

There are scores of things I'd like to see fixed or changed or improved in DCS. But at the end of the day I'm blown away by the incredibly supportive user community around DCS, and impressed with ED's willingness to engage in that community, if not always respond to every (often conflicting) demand.

I'm not disputing (and won't debate) the legitimacy of any opposing view. But I do wonder sometimes if we'd get even better service if more people said thank you to BigNewy and Nineline and Wags etc., and fewer people told them how much their latest everything sucks. If every time I did an honest day's work I had dozens of people telling me what a POS my work (and I) was, I sure as hell wouldn't feel motivated.

Anyway, thanks to everyone in this community who makes DCS what it is, and thanks to the ED gang for continuing to listen and engage.

Genuine question! COO, owner, even the forums moderators are a lot more chatty on reddit and there's been some absolutely huge posts there.

 

But not here, at home.

 

How come? Is it the sorting of Reddit that keeps relevant content at the top that shapes the view? It's just the OP's by Kate and Nick are pretty big, regardless of the subsequent commentary.

+1

I just discovered the posts from Nick and Kate off the back of watching a random YouTube video that happened to mention them. They were hugely informative and valuable, and directly addressed a good number of the questions that repeatedly come up on these forums.

Kate's post about predicted timelines was especially helpful and appreciated:

I'm not disputing (and won't debate) the legitimacy of any opposing view. But I do wonder sometimes if we'd get even better service if more people said thank you to BigNewy and Nineline and Wags etc., and fewer people told them how much their latest everything sucks. If every time I did an honest day's work I had dozens of people telling me what a POS my work (and I) was, I sure as hell wouldn't feel motivated.

Well said. :thumbup:

I do a lot of fremdschämen for those who constantly complain here.

I mean, I try to imagine my life without my DCS hobby, and I would sorely miss it. I cannot even express how happy I am with DCS and the quality of the modules ED provides. All the new updates towards an even better DCS are greatly appreciated as well. So, Rock On, ED.

(also, thanks for BigNewy, Nineline, et al to keep patiently moderating these forums)

@Vector

Agreed. I would probably be considered a vocal fanboi, but I disagree. There's plenty to complain about, always is with any game, and I certainly have my Book of Grievances. However, I've seen things improve over time, and if my favorite plane breaks, whether ED or 3rd, I think the folks here have good intentions and will get to it when they can.

In particular, I recognise this is a passion project for all involved on both developer and consumer side. Some publishers are gaming sweatfarms and while individuals may care, the overall climate is about numbers. Where ED, Razbam, AvioDev, Polychop, Heatblur, etc are considered, there are no ''numbers'' to chase. Nobody is getting rich off this stuff. They do it because they love it. The way a person treats a passion project is different from how they treat their ''job''. Imperfections niggle a lot more and you want ''the best'' you can do.

I can only assume the people who don't recognise that are themselves shallow people devoid of passion and believe that everyone else is as empty as they are.

@OP

It's probably just the spontaneity of social media, tbh. The forum is a lot more constricted and formal, where someplace like Reddit is more relaxed. Kind of like ''giving a speech on a platform'' vs ''mingling with fans at ComiCon''. Minus the BO, presumably. Or email vs chat.

IMHO all the official data, and even the unofficial but public information should be copied to the ED own DCS World forum, by all the studios. Meaning that it should be in the agreement with ED that this forum gets everything first, and then it can be posted elsewhere too.

So no facebook, no twitter, no reddit, nothing else is required than this place.

And this should be the first official location where things gets announced.

ED offers each studio a own sub-forum. And there they could very well have a own sub-forums like "News" or "Reports" etc where then their person who ever is writing anything to elsewhere, would create a new thread, copy the stuff there, publish it and then lock it. No discussions. Just publish it there.

Write the accurate subject to the thread so it is easy to understand etc.

After that I personally don't care where ever else they will copy that same information etc, as I just don't want to go search it all over the places!

It's absolutely pointless to have a site where you can not say your opinion and simply leave it at that. Especially one located in the USA, where there is freedom of speech.

Hoggit and Reddit itself is awful. It's a complete echo chamber and you either have to agree with the popular opinions or you are down voted and your comments become invisible.

 

People are peer pressured to conform with whatever opinion is popular with the upvote and downvote system, meaning there is no room for novel opinion.

 

It's absolutely pointless to have a site where you can not say your opinion and simply leave it at that. Especially one located in the USA, where there is freedom of speech.

 

That site needs to be shut down quite frankly.

That's not how ''freedom of speech'' works. I mean ffs, it is really stunning what a ridiculous statement this whole thing is.

#1 Freedom of Speech means THE GOVERNMENT will not censure you. Period. Full stop. There is no enforced ''State Line'' ala certain overbearing countries.

#2 #1 does not apply to private property. Period. A privately owned website is just that, and it is THEIR RIGHT to enforce whatever arbitrary rules they want unless it involves violence, criminal acts, etc. If I want to start a website where anybody that likes cats is subject to permaban, I can do that. If I want to ban anybody that likes DCS, I can do that. That's MY RIGHT.

#3 ''HURDUR my opinion is unpopular and people don't recognise my genius, so take away their toys'' What an unbelievably ignorant, backasswards mentality. You have the right to state your opinion. Other people have the right to tell you to piss off and kick you off their property. If you don't like it go where your opinion is more popular or start your own site. Freedom of speech means nothing is stopping you from doing either of those things. ''Shut it down cuz MURICA'' *facepalm*

It blows my mind how unpatriotic ''patriots'' are and how totally they miss the point of the rights they supposedly champion. I'm from Texas, though, so I'm used to that kind of mental gymnastics.

Back on topic:

I get wanting it all in one place, but it's really bot that hard, anything important floats to the top shortly anyway, and typically ends up getting picked up by good ol' Silver Dragon

Hoggit and Reddit itself is awful. It's a complete echo chamber and you either have to agree with the popular opinions or you are down voted and your comments become invisible.

 

People are peer pressured to conform with whatever opinion is popular with the upvote and downvote system, meaning there is no room for novel opinion.

 

It's absolutely pointless to have a site where you can not say your opinion and simply leave it at that. Especially one located in the USA, where there is freedom of speech.

 

That site needs to be shut down quite frankly.

So, your solution to opinions getting shut down is to.. shut down the website? :joystick:

I'm far from being a fan of hoggit as I also dislike the excitable knee-jerk tendencies as well, but shut down? You could just avoid them, as I do. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence.

Genuine question! COO, owner, even the forums moderators are a lot more chatty on reddit and there's been some absolutely huge posts there.

 

 

But not here, at home.

 

 

How come? Is it the sorting of Reddit that keeps relevant content at the top that shapes the view? It's just the OP's by Kate and Nick are pretty big, regardless of the subsequent commentary.

+1000

It's not "knee jerk". I've used Reddit over the years.

 

If I can't share my opinion on DCS, other games, movies, or god forbid - politics, without it being downvoted and hidden from other users then what is the point?

 

I'm speaking on behalf of anyone in the same situation not just myself.

 

The problem isn't inherently Reddit itself, but the upvote and downvote system.

 

Everything on Reddit is a feedback loop. If more people agree with you, you will be upvoted and get that sweet sweet dopamine fix and satisfaction. It's like training a dog with treats, repeat it over and over enough and eventually they will respond.

 

Personally, I get angry and resentful when people try to feed me bull****. I'm sure people do say things just to be upvoted though and/or to be seen favorably on Reddit and that's just sad (IMO).

That's literally what a kneejerk reaction is, but okay.

I still fail to see an issue if hoggit wants to be an echo chamber. Avoid it? I do.

Genuine question! COO, owner, even the forums moderators are a lot more chatty on reddit and there's been some absolutely huge posts there.

 

 

But not here, at home.

 

 

How come? Is it the sorting of Reddit that keeps relevant content at the top that shapes the view? It's just the OP's by Kate and Nick are pretty big, regardless of the subsequent commentary.

@Cylon

''Only from the left'' *facepalm* How you miss the irony in literally everything you keep saying... Actually, I would be considered very conservative, I just have the common sense to refrain from imaginary boogeymen and conspiracies.

As for corporations censuring unpopular opinions from their personal property... yeah. That's their right! It also wouldn't work if it wasn't the majority opinion. If your opinion is the minority, then by definition nobody wants to hear it, that's common sense.

There are platforms for any opinion you might have. Flat Earth? Check. Government turning frogs gay? Check. Nobody shuts that down. You're complaining because you're going somewhere your opinion is unpopular, then complaining that it's unpopular. And THEN complaining because nobody wants to come to YOUR platform.... BECAUSE YOUR OPINIONS ARE UNPOPULAR LOL!!! It's a ridiculous feedback loop!

And your solution.... is a government controlled platform to what, force people to listen to your unpopular views that nobody is interested in, which is what started the cycle in the first place? Rofl

So no facebook, no twitter, no reddit, nothing else is required than this place.

 

And this should be the first official location where things gets announced.

Points well made. Totally agree.

Dude, chill out. It's incredible how something not aggressive or even targeted toward what you are talking about can get you worked up so much.

 

I was talking about how my opinions on DCS and other games are downvoted out of existence on Reddit, but if you want to go into politics we can take it there.

 

I can tell what your politics are just from what you told me. You are literally correct but miss some key points.

 

There isn't much speech done physically in public anymore. Therefore, if the speech has moved to mostly the internet then it does have to abide by the (constantly changing) rules of whatever platform is hosting it. It's a big catch 22.

 

The reality is the government of the USA has to set up government run free speech platforms or free speech will be policed (mostly) out of existence by corporations who don't want to see themselves as supporting unpopular opinions, which of course will cause all sorts of political problems for the USA. The reality is censorship is only coming from the left at this point in time in the USA.

 

I didn't want to go there, but hey - you're so much better than me right? You have the right politics and everyone else is just too darn dumb, right?

 

Addendum: I think Reddit shouldn't exist because it lends itself to hive mind behavior for every topic under the sun, let alone politics. I also think social media shouldn't exist either. I've seen the change in peoples behavior ever since and it was clearly a mistake. It doesn't add anything to anyone's lives.

This was the first post to mention the word politics, it is said three times.

It’s fine to have a problem with Hoggit but it’s another thing entirely to say it should be shut down because your opinions are downvoted there and that that is against free speech

Fishbed L only ends up on this search here because you are quoted https://forums.eagle.ru/search.php?searchid=31377429

As for this thread, it would be nice to see big posts on Hoggit also be posted here with context, would be nice

Political themes can be brought up without using the word politics, I'll leave it at that. Reddit should be shut down, not just hoggit. Though getting rid of the upvote and downvote system would work also. Gosh does anyone read what I write?

I have not specifically mentioned any particular politics, or opinions you hold. YOU said Reddit should be shutdown because 'Murica and freedom of speech. Your words, not mine.

I do not care what your politics are, I called you out for the serious flaw in what you said. I neither know nor care what your opinions are in politics or gaming, it's irrelevant. They are apparently unpopular because you're complaining about getting downvoted, and you respond by saying you think the site should be shut down? Because folks don't like what you have to say? Again, your words, not mine.

You brought up freedom of speech in an incorrect context, which is a pet peeve of mine and some bs I hear on a near daily basis. I called you on it, same way I call people EVERYTIME they say something ridiculous like that. That's NOT what that is about.

If you don't want to talk about it, don't bring it up. I have nothing against you personally or anything you are entitled to think. But ''freedom of speech'' works both ways. You can say something ridiculous, and I can call you on it.

Lol whatever, man. I never claimed free speech on ED's forums, you are correct it doesn't apply here! Nice! Now you get it! Of course, your smugness only comes because you don't like what you're hearing so tis good and all to delete it, but then what can be expected from somebody that wants to shut down websites he disagrees with and advocates for government control of discourse @@

Can you point to the post where I said: I think Reddit should be shut down because people don't like what I have to say?

 

You said it's my words, but it's clearly not.

 

Also you brought up politics the moment you called me a "patriot" and mentioned "sites for unpopular opinions such as conspiracy theories" etc, etc. Those familiar with US politics know that's associated with the beliefs of some right wing people. So don't try to distance yourself .

:noexpression:

Hoggit and Reddit itself is awful. It's a complete echo chamber and you either have to agree with the popular opinions or you are down voted and your comments become invisible.

......

It's absolutely pointless to have a site where you can not say your opinion and simply leave it at that. Especially one located in the USA, where there is freedom of speech.

 

That site needs to be shut down quite frankly.

Lol

Agree with op

It's absolutely pointless to have a site where you can not say your opinion and simply leave it at that. Especially one located in the USA, where there is freedom of speech.

 

That site needs to be shut down quite frankly.

actual lol

I said it needs to be shut down, not because my comments get down voted though!

:music_whistling:, can’t wait to see all the big letters from Nick and Kate re posted here...

I was talking about how my opinions on DCS and other games are downvoted out of existence on Reddit, but if you want to go into politics we can take it there.