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LF advice on HOT-3 optimum firing range


Backtrap

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I recently bought the Gazelle, which is my first helicopter. I am having a blast learning to fly with my warthog controls. The main issue I am having right now is engaging ground targets without getting shot down.

 

I looked up the range of the HOT-3 and it said 4300m which is roughly 2.3 NM. When I close within that range to fire, I am getting shot by the ground targets. I am staying low (treetop) and using terrain to help block, but the rounds go through trees and hit me.

 

One other thing. I noticed when I tried firing from longer ranges (4-5NM) the missile just explodes midair before hitting the target.

 

TLDR: If you have any tips on engaging ground targets with HOT-3 without getting shot down, I would be thankful.

 

Thanks,

Backtrap


Edited by Backtrap
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The hot is a missile "Haut Subsonique Optiquement Téléguidé,Subsonic Optically Remote Control)", which means that we can control it once launched.If you look instead of the shooter on his console, you see a mini joystick that is there to take into account the steering missile.So this is not a "fire and forget" .You must be in optimal conditions to make a successful shot.

Try to see the possibility of moving the missile once it is launched, with the command you have assigned to guide the reticle of the camera, it is the same command for aiming and guidance of the missile.

Practice first with the possibility of being partially hidden by hard osbtacles (buildings, mountains ...).

Once at a safe distance from the target, go into the shooter's spot and look in the screen while going up to see the target, above the obstacle that hides you. Start the hovering station. Normally, as your camera is above of the cockpit, the targets do not engage you because they do not see you. Indeed it is your camera which exceeds, not your fuselage.

By being in this way in height relative to the target, the missile is less likely to go to the ground.

Hovering behind trees too low, the missile will crash in front of you, unless you are long distance, and there you can catch up with the joystick.On the throttle of the warthog, you have a mini joystick, very sensitive , just to the left of the coolie hat on the face where the four fingers land. You can use it for the displacement of the viewfinder and for the firing of the missile.As well as for the piloting of the missile.

 

http://cromhunt.proboards.com/thread/312/dcs-la-gazelle

Training is the only way


Edited by cromhunt
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Thanks again for the feedback. I am not having much luck. 2 more tries and 2 more deaths.

 

both were behind a ridge (treeline) and I was approx 5nm from target area. Died to machine guns of some sort.

 

I really like the Gazelle, but these short-range missiles are really hard to hit targets with. Guess I will try some rockets next time and try to move fast.

 

I think what I really need is a 2nd gunner in multiplay. That way I can concentrate on maneuvering while the gunner takes out targets.

 

Thanks,

Backtrap

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Owner of the Gazelle Moudules since 2 days ago lol, been fighting with the auto over mostly and trying to find the best curve and settings to control this chopper.

It is fun and very agile but pedals are kind of unrealistically too responsive to me.

Definitively to fly with a gunner is a lot better.

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- There's an "auto-collective" keybinding - which I believe doesn't exist in reality - that allows you to lock or unlock the collective input during auto-hover for easy climbing/dipping while hovering. It's just there to make up for doing 2 jobs at once.

 

- The missiles will launch at an upward angle initially, which allows you to fire at targets in cases where the Viviane camera is able to see the target but the rest of the heli is hidden from view. This allows you to take out pretty much anything - I've taken out a combined convoy of Tunguskas, Tors, Shilkas and T90s that way - but the drawback is that the missile also drops pretty low to compensate for being shot at that upward angle, so at shallow hills it will bound into the ground.

 

- Some tanks can fire ATGM missiles through the barrel which have considerable distance, and standard weaponry from tanks, IFVs and so on are often dangerous, so if not facing anti-air missile threats it can definitely be better to fire on the move rather than stationary and do run-ins rather than pop-ups.

 

- When not being slewed the camera has sort of a 'locking' function that keeps it pointing in the same direction, useful for when on the move and when the camera jitters around alot.

 

- Trees, at least from my limited 2.5 experience thus far (with broken FFB and no centering on the FFB stick when that functionality is turned off in DCS I can't fly the Gazelle at all) the trees are good for cover when moving, but bad to attack from, because the AI still spots you instantly through tiny gaps in the foliage with their magical powers.


Edited by Sephyrius
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"- There's an "auto-collective" keybinding - which I believe doesn't exist in reality - that allows you to lock or unlock the collective input during auto-hover for easy climbing/dipping while hovering. It's just there to make up for doing 2 jobs at once."

 

You can already go up and down with relative ease if you are in auto hover, even easier if you have the ship slaved to the camera because then you don't even need to make an anti-torque input.

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You can already go up and down with relative ease if you are in auto hover, even easier if you have the ship slaved to the camera because then you don't even need to make an anti-torque input.

 

I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

 

The 'auto-collective' binding toggles between being able to go up and down at all, or remaining level with zero input required. If it's set to remain level it will ignore any of your collective input.

 

(In reality the pilot would maintain altitude while the gunner does the target acquisition, but in-game it's a death sentence because while you're busy selecting a missile and slewing the viviane around the heli slowly crept up just 2 meters and is now getting shot out of the sky.)

 

In auto-hover pedal (anti-torque) input is also automated, even when slewing to heli to the camera.

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I think what I really need is a 2nd gunner in multiplay. That way I can concentrate on maneuvering while the gunner takes out targets.

 

Good luck with that. For sure it's great fun in the Gazelle with a buddy. Just bear in mind that the multi crew functionality is still incomplete and suffers from some annoying bugs. In particular, the camera view that the gunner sees will be slightly out of sync with what the pilot can see. The pilot's view seems to be the one that's usually correct. So when I'm flying with a buddy (I usually do the missiles) I'll get the camera roughly on target then ask the pilot to confirm whether it's a good lineup from his perspective (and realign if necessary). Teamwork.

 

Also the gunner manages the radios in multicrew but that's broken too, because the frequencies don't match between gunner and pilot, and the pilot's is (apparently) the one that needs to be correct .. but he can't manage the radios with a buddy in too.

 

Lots more issues with multicrew, but still it's good fun. Looking forward to seeing lots more development of this feature because it does make the Gazelle stand out as having great potential. If only the Huey had it!

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  • 1 year later...

Noticed the Combat Performance of the SA-342M is significantly better on the Normandy Map, due to the different Tree Design of that Map. The Normandy Trees do have a bigger Hitbox, maybe that even affects LOS from the AI Ground Units.

The God-AI Tanks seems to have a harder Time to spot you. And even if they fire their ATGMs at you, these won't penetrate the Trees. They are always exploding on the Trees in front of me. If I Hover properly with only the Viviane popping up, had absolutely no issues to engage enemy Tanks in a safe manner.

On Caucasus on the other Hand, ATGMs do penetrate Trees regularly.

 

For me this is a pretty big Gamechanger, had so much fun today blowing up these bloody T90s.

Great experience after so much frustration on the other Maps.

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I havent had too many issues. You are way too close if you are taking AAA fire. Or too high if getting hit by sams.

 

Learn to ise the nadir. Plug in the target coords and a good looking initial point. Fly to IP asses. Then watching your distance ver slowly close to 4km hopefully finding your target before that. Fire from 4km.

 

You shpuld be flying under the treeline as much as possible to avoid sams.

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No never had Problems with AAA or with SAMs, the Evil Killer were russian Tanks!

From T55 up to the T90. With their barrel-launched ATGMs they hit you pinpoint up to 5 or 6 km.

 

If there is Line of Sight between your Heli (hovering) and one of those Tanks, they immediate spot and engage you with that Missiles. As said in Caucasus I experienced a lot of Deaths, where they just shoot straight through the Trees, I was hovering behind. That seems to be different on Normandy, where the Trees are more Hard Cover.

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Yeah the sniper tanks suck. A t55 engaging a helo is bad joke. No missiles on it. Some t72s and the t90 do have atgms. But at long range they should miss alot.

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Yeah the sniper tanks suck. A t55 engaging a helo is bad joke. No missiles on it. Some t72s and the t90 do have atgms. But at long range they should miss alot.

 

T-55M/AM from early 80's have Bastion ATGM's fitted among other upgrades. Since they are guided, they are obviously more precise than the SABOT rounds at long range and being used against attack helicopters which outrange your relatively imprecise guns is only logical. But, with the limited optics magnification, I'm not sure what would be the effective range for engaging helicopters and also spotting them.

 

And then there's also the issue of superior AI spotting, reaction time and precision in DCS, I guess. Didn't really try it for some time, but I remember in that A-10A instant mission, those BMP-2's were much more deadly than Shilkas which made absolutely no sense.


Edited by Dudikoff

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Well in RL tank crews would engage you with thier guns if they spot you hover somewhere in thier range. My cousin was driving Leopard 2 A6 and he talked about what they learned in theory and in trainings. So no ATGMs needed.

 

Well in RL, and I do a fair bit about tanks so I can confidently speak to what those guys would do:

 

#1 The TC would get on the radio and report the helicopters position to higher and nearby units, who would alert ADA in the area and get someone else to kill them. Like that guy in the Bradley 200m to your right with the stinger would be a really good choice since thats his job, and the stinger has pretty good PK against helos at longer range. Or also possibly friendly air hanging out nearby.

 

#2 The TC would be really really wondering if you saw him, and if the decision was no, he would absolutely not **** with Mr tank killer helicopter, especially one at near max range where the PH is low.

 

#3 He would also be looking for a place to hide since he knows spotting tanks from the air isn't really all that easy. Hey Driver back up 10 more feet into the treeline. (I will also add that tank placement and whatever AI DCS uses for that is pretty bad, tanks don't sit in the open like I often see on the aeroquake servers)

 

#4 Yup, last choice is to actually engage Mr Tank Killer helo at near max range where you are more likely to draw attention to your tank than to actually kill the helo. Now its a different proposition, if he's at close range where you have a much better chance of hitting him, but still you are gonna run through options 1-3 pretty quick.


Edited by Harlikwin

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T-55M/AM from early 80's have Bastion ATGM's fitted among other upgrades. Since they are guided, they are obviously more precise than the SABOT rounds at long range and being used against attack helicopters which outrange your relatively imprecise guns is only logical. But, with the limited optics magnification, I'm not sure what would be the effective range for engaging helicopters and also spotting them.

 

And then there's also the issue of superior AI spotting, reaction time and precision in DCS, I guess. Didn't really try it for some time, but I remember in that A-10A instant mission, those BMP-2's were much more deadly than Shilkas which made absolutely no sense.

 

Ah I didn't realize we had updated T-55's in DCS. The ones that killed me in the gaz did it from 4000m with a 105mm sabot shot (pro tip, DCS, its a 100mm gun, unless its an israeli modded T55). And yes the tube launched ATGM's soviet tanks use is because they are more precise at long range than sabot or HEAT rounds. But at the max range of those ATGM's they aren't particularly precise, tracking a moving target at long range isn't all that easy and helos burble about alot in all 3 dimensions, if you can even spot them at long range. Plus all it takes to miss is for the helo to see the missile and jink at the last second.

 

Yeah, I think the DCS tactical ground AI really needs an overhaul. For all the reasons you mentioned and more, like the actual damage model doesn't even cover the difference between conventional, reactive armor and composite armor, or the fact side/rear shots with ATGM's should be instant kills, not this weird smoke for 5 minutes and then blow up shit.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The issue isn't so much the ai engage you. Its that they are guaranteed to spot you if you are so much as 1m out of cover. The realism of spotting is just not modelled for ai. Which is incredible for a sim that started with an attack chopper over 10 years ago

 

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