DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM

I guess what I was getting at is that the aeroquake set generally want the bestest most modernest uber fighter. This won't be it. I'll fly it online and enjoy it though.

Well, I guess you could always set your airquake to be in a determined era and since every "modernity" is always preceded by another. :)

But, yeah I understand.

It will be competitive with everything you have in DCS now unless they are armed with active AAMs of corse, and even then it should not be imposible either.

:thumbup: Ones we know bearing or at least spot the Aim-7 launch it is possible, even Mig-21bis vs F-15 can do it.

Well, I guess you could always set your airquake to be in a determined era and since every "modernity" is always preceded by another. :)

 

But, yeah I understand.

Yeah I'm generally more intersted in 70's-80's era jets than the newest whizbang stuff. I just want some near-peer opponents for the mig23, and hopefully the upcoming F4E should be closer than anything else.

PS Overstratos,

You guys should do a mig29 after the 23... Just sayin...

PS Overstratos,

 

You guys should do a mig29 after the 23... Just sayin...

With all the Physics and instruments, 3D models they are closer to Mig-27.

You are just talking here about the beam properties of the radar without taking into account that the antenna actually moves so it sweeps the space in front of it. The N003 search sweep cover +30°/-35° in elevation and 60° in azimuth. This can change in dependence of the radar mode.

 

 

As this radar belongs to the firsts to use Doppler signals for look-down, anything under 1km altitude is detected below the distance of 30km.

The radar sweep position on lock target will be represented somehow in Hud? e.g like our Su-27 do?

27 does have a six barreled 30mm....

the radar for the 23 will be interesting to learn to use, it seems it suffers in medium PRF band has trouble with receding targets?

Pepin there is no radar scope if you look at cockpit photos, all done on HUD

With all the Physics and instruments, 3D models they are closer to Mig-27.

Thats true. And redfor could use a good striker. The mig27 wasn't exported much, so unless they have an "in" in Russia or maybe India or Sri Lanka I'd say they are hosed on that front. And you are re-doing the avionics anyway which is the difficult documentation to get.

Mig29 OTOH, well even the Cubans have some, which is where they got the info on the mig23 they are doing as I heard it... Just sayin.

Pepin there is no radar scope if you look at cockpit photos, all done on HUD

Look the picture, circle is the target, but also there is a small mark. Maybe radar position?. I am talking about the radar angle position on Hud representation. Also for similar, look our Su-27 in lock mode.

https://images.app.goo.gl/uQt6eDavABCDnQrP9

You should really go to our Discord, these discussions are taking place there all the time.

You are just talking here about the beam properties of the radar without taking into account that the antenna actually moves so it sweeps the space in front of it. The N003 search sweep cover +30°/-35° in elevation and 60° in azimuth. This can change in dependence of the radar mode.

 

 

As this radar belongs to the firsts to use Doppler signals for look-down, anything under 1km altitude is detected below the distance of 30km.

Mig-23 radar has pulse and moving target indicator (MTI) pulse modes, but no pulse doppler modes.

https://www.seeninside.net/sapfir23_radar.html

The first Russian fighter with Pulse Doppler was the MiG-31 (1981).

The below material indicates that the fighter radars up through the MiG-25 used pulse radars (not pulse Doppler) as indicated by the continued interest in reducing "ground clutter" and increasing clutter suppression.

https://toad-design.com/migalley/index.php/jet-aircraft/mig25/mig25-smerch-radar/

The video below explains the difference between Doppler and MTI techniques.

Generally speaking, MTI simply separates moving returns from non-moving returns and has no means of measuring specific doppler or target velocities. It also has far worse SNR (poor detection range), and usually many doppler blind zones (recurring at the rate of the PRF).

Thats true. And redfor could use a good striker. The mig27 wasn't exported much, so unless they have an "in" in Russia or maybe India or Sri Lanka I'd say they are hosed on that front. And you are re-doing the avionics anyway which is the difficult documentation to get.

My bad. Mig-23BN. It is a really interesting ground attack version. The laser targeting sensor make bombing more accurate. Also have an extra pylon and we still can do some air combat with R-3S and R-13 missiles. I hope they put this version in roadmap for future. Will be very convenient have afterburner in CAS mission.

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig23bn.html

I would still take the Mig-27 for its improved visibility and pure strike aircraft purpose. It would be the one against F-111 and Viggen etc. Until Su-24 comes out.

Of course if it would be possible, I would take all three. Mig-23MLA, Mig-23BN and Mig-27K.

Mig-23 radar has pulse and moving target indicator (MTI) pulse modes, but no pulse doppler modes.

 

 

https://www.seeninside.net/sapfir23_radar.html

 

 

The first Russian fighter with Pulse Doppler was the MiG-31 (1981).

 

The below material indicates that the fighter radars up through the MiG-25 used pulse radars (not pulse Doppler) as indicated by the continued interest in reducing "ground clutter" and increasing clutter suppression.

 

https://toad-design.com/migalley/index.php/jet-aircraft/mig25/mig25-smerch-radar/

 

 

 

The video below explains the difference between Doppler and MTI techniques.

 

 

Generally speaking, MTI simply separates moving returns from non-moving returns and has no means of measuring specific doppler or target velocities. It also has far worse SNR (poor detection range), and usually many doppler blind zones (recurring at the rate of the PRF).

Overstratos have right, S-23 is doppler pulse radar, first of this class in Soviet Union. With MiG-25 situation is bit more complicated: first fighter variant MiG-25P had pulse radar RP-25A2 or A4 "Smierch", later variants MiG-25PD/PDS had scaled up variant of Flogger's N-003 called N-005 "Saphir"-25 (RP-25M or later MN).

My bad. Mig-23BN. It is a really interesting ground attack version. The laser targeting sensor make bombing more accurate. Also have an extra pylon and we still can do some air combat with R-3S and R-13 missiles. I hope they put this version in roadmap for future. Will be very convenient have afterburner in CAS mission.

 

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig23bn.html

Only AA weapon for BN is canon, no AAM's on this variant.

You should really go to our Discord, these discussions are taking place there all the time.

Yeah I'm well aware of your discord channel. And honestly Discord has its place, an organized topic with well thought out discussion however has little or no place there, the forum format is far better suited for it IMO. I don't need to trawl through 3 linear miles of AOLesqu banter to find the one thing I'm looking for each day.

My bad. Mig-23BN. It is a really interesting ground attack version. The laser targeting sensor make bombing more accurate. Also have an extra pylon and we still can do some air combat with R-3S and R-13 missiles. I hope they put this version in roadmap for future. Will be very convenient have afterburner in CAS mission.

 

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig23bn.html

Anyone have any details on the PrNK Sokol-23 attack system? Since its 70's era I think it should be safe to discuss it in detail without violating 1.16.

Yeah I'm well aware of your discord channel. And honestly Discord has its place, an organized topic with well thought out discussion however has little or no place there, the forum format is far better suited for it IMO. I don't need to trawl through 3 linear miles of AOLesqu banter to find the one thing I'm looking for each day.

Yep, 100% agree on this

I could imagine the 27 being a blast to work with... that gun alone

Yeah I'm well aware of your discord channel. And honestly Discord has its place, an organized topic with well thought out discussion however has little or no place there, the forum format is far better suited for it IMO. I don't need to trawl through 3 linear miles of AOLesqu banter to find the one thing I'm looking for each day.

Well spoken. It's like those moments when you read "NineLine has said this on Discord", you go there, scroll though the last 5 or so days in every channel and don't even find that comment at all... just tons of time wasted because you wanted to see that official statement. With that in mind and TeamSpeak still being good enough, I don't even see a reason for Discord. Server costs? I could host up to 12 guys simultanously with decent quality on a 16M dn/1M up line ten years ago on a netbook while playing via the same line without getting lags or higher pings. Now I've got 100M dn/40M up and that's not yet the fastest possible, but far enough...

I always hope to get the official statements in the official place which is... here.

Yeah I'm well aware of your discord channel. And honestly Discord has its place, an organized topic with well thought out discussion however has little or no place there, the forum format is far better suited for it IMO. I don't need to trawl through 3 linear miles of AOLesqu banter to find the one thing I'm looking for each day.

I understand but I don't agree. Discord gives the oportunity to more directly evacuate your doubts and recieve quick answers as it is a more direct communication method. You just go there and post your question.

Official statements and status updates will always be posted here off course.

I could imagine the 27 being a blast to work with... that gun alone

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well spoken. It's like those moments when you read "NineLine has said this on Discord", you go there, scroll though the last 5 or so days in every channel and don't even find that comment at all... just tons of time wasted because you wanted to see that official statement. With that in mind and TeamSpeak still being good enough, I don't even see a reason for Discord. Server costs? I could host up to 12 guys simultanously with decent quality on a 16M dn/1M up line ten years ago on a netbook while playing via the same line without getting lags or higher pings. Now I've got 100M dn/40M up and that's not yet the fastest possible, but far enough...

 

 

I always hope to get the official statements in the official place which is... here.

Heh, reminds me of one of the ways I screen clans before applying. If they say ''Mumble'' or ''Discord'' it's an automatic no from me. TS is best there is, hands down, I don't want to stream music in my chat app, I have an app for that. And if an entire clan can't collaborate enough to afford a TS server then it doesn't say much for their organisational ability

I understand but I don't agree. Discord gives the oportunity to more directly evacuate your doubts and recieve quick answers as it is a more direct communication method. You just go there and post your question.

 

 

Official statements and status updates will always be posted here off course.

I strongly disagree. Scrolling through Discord messages is much worse than just looking at stickied threads here, assuming one managed the forum correctly.

Take the Mirage 2000-5 announcement/speculation for example. There's nothing about it from you guys here on the forum, just somebody posting a screenshot of a Discord message.

I understand but I don't agree. Discord gives the oportunity to more directly evacuate your doubts and recieve quick answers as it is a more direct communication method. You just go there and post your question.

 

 

Official statements and status updates will always be posted here off course.

Well we can agree to disagree, though there alot of users that think the same way as I on the fourms as you can see. At any rate I'm glad that you participate over here.

Anyone have any details on the PrNK Sokol-23 attack system? Since its 70's era I think it should be safe to discuss it in detail without violating 1.16.

First: is hard call MiG-23B/BN weapon system a "Prnk". This abbreviation means "Navigation and aiming kompleks" and in Soviet terminology means attack and navigations devices connected in one system by central processing unit. In MiG-23B we don't have central computer so no "Prnk" but two separate navigation and attack systems connected by some funcionality.

Two main electronic systems on MiG-23B's board are: Sokol-23 attack system ( Sokol-23S for MiG-23B and Sokol-23N for MiG-23BN ) and navigation kompleks KN-23. Sokol-23S had five main parts: shooting sight ASP-17 with optical head S-17VG and analog-digital processing unit, bombing sight PBK-3-23S, laser rangefinder "Fon" ("Background") and defence suite with SPO-10 RHAW, SPS-141 "Siren-1FSh" jammer, SB-1 "Barier"( "Barrier" or "Obstacle") radar location system and guided missiles system "Delta-N". System was working in 8 main modes for shooting ( canon, ffar) and bombing ( horizontal, dive and climb flights ). All modes can be use in automatic and manual mode, and part of them with target visible or not visible.

Navigation kompleks KN-23 had: IKV inertial platform, doppler speed and drift angle radar DISS-7, V-144 analog computer, RSBN-6S and PRMG-4 aircraft's subsystems, PVD-18 air data system, DUA-3 AOA system, RV-5 radar altimeter and emergency ARK-10 or 15 system. KN-23 had possibilty to program 4 airfields and 3 route points, and 1 radio-orientation point. System is able work without ( autonomous mode ) or with radio correction from RSBN system. With SAU-23B AFCS is able do automatic route flight, return to airfield and landing up to 50-60 m altitude.

MiG-23B/BN takes up to 3000 kg of weapons, have max range 3100 km (clean configuration plus 3 external fuel tanks, 10k altitude ), combat radius at 200 m altitude with 1000 kg bombs is 610 km, with 3000 kg - 400 km, max speed at 200 m with 1000 kg bombs - 1350 km/h, with 3000 kg - 1000km/h.

@Foxbat155 About the A-A missiles. Su-25 is in the same level of mission task with an improved laser targeting system. Anyway our Su-25 have R-60 missiles for A-A. I know Mig-23bn is limited in payload anyway seem weird Mig-23bn don’t have A-A mode for R-3S missiles. There is no switch for that?

First: is hard call MiG-23B/BN weapon system a "Prnk". This abbreviation means "Navigation and aiming kompleks" and in Soviet terminology means attack and navigations devices connected in one system by central processing unit. In MiG-23B we don't have central computer so no "Prnk" but two separate navigation and attack systems connected by some funcionality.

Two main electronic systems on MiG-23B's board are: Sokol-23 attack system ( Sokol-23S for MiG-23B and Sokol-23N for MiG-23BN ) and navigation kompleks KN-23. Sokol-23S had five main parts: shooting sight ASP-17 with optical head S-17VG and analog-digital processing unit, bombing sight PBK-3-23S, laser rangefinder "Fon" ("Background") and defence suite with SPO-10 RHAW, SPS-141 "Siren-1FSh" jammer, SB-1 "Barier"( "Barrier" or "Obstacle") radar location system and guided missiles system "Delta-N". System was working in 8 main modes for shooting ( canon, ffar) and bombing ( horizontal, dive and climb flights ). All modes can be use in automatic and manual mode, and part of them with target visible or not visible.

Navigation kompleks KN-23 had: IKV inertial platform, doppler speed and drift angle radar DISS-7, V-144 analog computer, RSBN-6S and PRMG-4 aircraft's subsystems, PVD-18 air data system, DUA-3 AOA system, RV-5 radar altimeter and emergency ARK-10 or 15 system. KN-23 had possibilty to program 4 airfields and 3 route points, and 1 radio-orientation point. System is able work without ( autonomous mode ) or with radio correction from RSBN system. With SAU-23B AFCS is able do automatic route flight, return to airfield and landing up to 50-60 m altitude.

MiG-23B/BN takes up to 3000 kg of weapons, have max range 3100 km (clean configuration plus 3 external fuel tanks, 10k altitude ), combat radius at 200 m altitude with 1000 kg bombs is 610 km, with 3000 kg - 400 km, max speed at 200 m with 1000 kg bombs - 1350 km/h, with 3000 kg - 1000km/h.

Did it have any sort of longer range optical tracker, its hard to tell from the terminology. I'm thinking like the harrier DMT.