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Question about flying modern helicopters


sirrah

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Lately I've been flying the Huey a lot (in VR), but handling this bird got me wondering the following:

 

How do modern helicopters compare to the UH-1 when it comes to handling the controls? In the Huey you are constantly making control inputs to keep the thing steady, especially at low speeds or hover. Sometimes it feels like I'm stirring in a big pot of soup :P

 

Do modern helicopters still need this much of controls input, just to keep it steady?

 

I'd expect nowadays that these actions are taken over by flight control computers just like in fly by wire aircraft, but as far as I know, fly by wire still hasn't been implemented in modern helicopters.

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~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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I'd expect nowadays that these actions are taken over by flight control computers just like in fly by wire aircraft, but as far as I know, fly by wire still hasn't been implemented in modern helicopters.

 

One is the italian NH90, the first european helicopter full Fly-by-Wire.

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One is the italian NH90, the first european helicopter full Fly-by-Wire.

 

Ah ok. So if it uses fly by wire it must have something lile a flightcontrol computer, does this mean it also has autopilot (auto-hover) functionality?

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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Lately I've been flying the Huey a lot (in VR), but handling this bird got me wondering the following:

 

How do modern helicopters compare to the UH-1 when it comes to handling the controls? In the Huey you are constantly making control inputs to keep the thing steady, especially at low speeds or hover. Sometimes it feels like I'm stirring in a big pot of soup :P

 

 

I think what you are describing is pilot induced oscillations, have a look at this video

eA0jZXck2S4

 

While helicopters are dynamically unstable in the hover, you shouldn't be moving the controls constantly. Try establishing a stable hover - then if you keep the controls steady, it shouldn't go anywhere, but this will only last for a few seconds before correction is needed. Things get easier the less you move them.

 

I'm almost done with my helicopter PPL, the first thing my instructor always mentions after lifting is "stop moving the cyclic!!" I don't even realise I'm doing it..

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One is the italian NH90, the first european helicopter full Fly-by-Wire.

Do other european NH90s not have a Fly-By-Wire? I would have thought such fundamental systems would be the same across all users? :huh:

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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It never went into production, but the RAH-66 Comanche had fly by wire.

 

I think there is a modern version of the specops "Littlebird" advanced prototype that features both fly by wire and even the ability to operate as a drone flying some by autopilot commands and by an operator handflying from satellite comms. I have no idea if this is in service, I think it's likely still in R+D or testing phase. Boeing is/was testing this. The idea was they could do all the normal missions, but if the situation was extreme, they could run it unmanned to fly supplies into a hot LZ, if the expectation of being shot down was unacceptably high but felt the flight too important not to do. Think there was a full glass cockpit aand the ability to use Hellfire among other things.

 

Here's a bit of info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-6

 

hmm, no mention there of FBW systems... but I'm certain that I read somewhere else that they had a FBW system running on a prototype variant...


Edited by Rick50
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Do other european NH90s not have a Fly-By-Wire? I would have thought such fundamental systems would be the same across all users? :huh:

 

I don't know, I'm only sure about the Italian version because an aircraft carrier pilot boasted the feature, but I think the other European states that use it, are also in possession of the same version.

PC: i7-13700K - MSI RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio - 32GB DDR5 6200 - VPC MongoosT-50CM3 - VKB GF pro - MFG Crosswind - Msi MPG321UR-QD + Acer XB271HU - TrackIR5 - Rift S

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I think what you are describing is pilot induced oscillations, have a look at this video

eA0jZXck2S4

 

While helicopters are dynamically unstable in the hover, you shouldn't be moving the controls constantly. Try establishing a stable hover - then if you keep the controls steady, it shouldn't go anywhere, but this will only last for a few seconds before correction is needed. Things get easier the less you move them.

 

I'm almost done with my helicopter PPL, the first thing my instructor always mentions after lifting is "stop moving the cyclic!!" I don't even realise I'm doing it..

Interesting stuff

I must say my "stirring the pot" has gone from erratic stirring, to minor input adjustments and I reckon with a little more practice I'll be holding the controls steady.

System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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The "stirring the pot" phenom comes from people not being angle to predict what is going to happen or not going to happen. So to believe that they can stay in control is that they take predictive control they know is overdoing and then correct that before it goes wrong.

 

The same thing is when people drive cars or even a lawnmower etc. You can see the same thing example when you ask people to balance with one feet, they start doing it after while when closing eyes they lose balance. Ask them to stand on balance board and they will start doing it more and more.

 

As they have no feeling that what really is happening, they want to generate the feeling so they can react to it and stay in control.

 

It is as well similar when you put a drunken person to drive a car in straight line, they can start turn from side to side with small movements as they can't react in time to small turns and perform a very tiny correction and wait. And then there are those who can drive perfectly straight when drunk and they do not sway from side to side.

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Lately I've been flying the Huey a lot (in VR), but handling this bird got me wondering the following:

 

How do modern helicopters compare to the UH-1 when it comes to handling the controls? In the Huey you are constantly making control inputs to keep the thing steady, especially at low speeds or hover. Sometimes it feels like I'm stirring in a big pot of soup :P

 

Do modern helicopters still need this much of controls input, just to keep it steady?

 

I'd expect nowadays that these actions are taken over by flight control computers just like in fly by wire aircraft, but as far as I know, fly by wire still hasn't been implemented in modern helicopters.

 

Naah you’d never get anything done.

Helis do have stabilisation systems to ease the pot stirring but the modern ones have 4 axis autopilot that can do almost anything.

 

 

But

Look at the rotor head designs and that will tell you a bit how they handle.

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