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SPO-10 antenna sensitivity outside it's designated envelope.


asla36

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Hello!

 

Could you please elaborate on the future changes [hopefully] coming to the SPO-10? As far as I am informed, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the lights on the SPO-10 panel should indicate the direction of the lock. This being because only the antennas which face the source of the radiation, and their corresponding lights, would be illuminated by a radar lock. This only changing if the radiation is so strong, that even antennas looking the wrong way can detect it (close lock by powerful ground based radar, so on). Of course, feel free to correct me if I'm miss-informed.

 

If this is an actual inaccuracy, then the logical course of action would be to fix it. However, with the current/old radar tech, that would be presumably difficult to do (as for why you didn't simulate it accurately in the first place, having a "good enough" solution for now). I am hopeful that with the new ED radar tech, this can be accurately modeled once and for all. If I am correct, the new tech is supposed to actually simulate radar waves and their interaction with the environment. If that is the case, one would assume that the SPO-10 behavior would now be much easier to model accurately. Since it could actually get information about the from the simulated radiation hitting it's antennas.

 

It would be nice to hear from you on if it is something you are looking into, or I'm just dumb and ill-informed on the actual SPO-10 or the new ED radar tech. Thanks in advance for the reply!

 

Sincerely, asla36.

 

P.S.

 

If I am wrong and the SPO-10 is accurately modeled as it is, please feel to delete the thread. Thanks!

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Yes, with multiple antennas facing different directions the antennas facing the direction of the locking radar will receive more energy from that direction. You'd think you'd see more lights in that direction.

 

Though with it being an ancient analog RWR, if it didn't have automatic gain control extremely powerful signals (from a jet locking you within a mile or so) would saturate your RWR receivers.

 

So, does the SPO-10 have automatic gain control?

 

If not, then the indicator would struggle to 'DF' (direction find) the source if the signal is really close and focused on you (locked on). Though a lock from a greater distance probably wouldn't saturate the RWR.

 

The engineering logic is, the RWR uses amplitude comparison to get a bearing on the signal. Receivers only have so much dynamic range (difference between the weakest and most power signals you can see simultaneously) and old electronics have very little dynamic range. RWRs and radars overcome the limits of their dynamic range with gain control (changing the total sensitivity of the receiver). Without the ability to control your gain, the extreme power of a signal can saturate the receiver and prevent an accurate comparison of the signal at the various antenna inputs.


Edited by Beamscanner
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The chapter 5 covers the signal processing from the receiving antenna to the light bulb. I have not enough motivation to translate it (requires OCR and text cleaning up, that chapter is so long). What I've understood from a previous chapter is that the light goes on for an electronically determined time, whatever the length of the radar signal pulse or its intensity (should be higher than some sort of threshold though) then, when the light bulb goes off, something is triggered in the circuit to discharge a part in the detection section to set it back to detecting state, thus replaying the cycle for that channel. To be confirmed or not in the chapter 5.

 

That's maybe why a locking radar is said to be displayed by an imperfect continuous lit bulb.

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  • 4 months later...

I am sorry, but can you (M3) please provide clarification on this. Is this an issue that you are looking into, do other things (frame drop when in close formation) have priority, or am I just completely wrong? Thanks in advance for the reply!

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  • 1 year later...

M3,

 

Can we get this recognized as an issue please or get some comment from your team? Sources seem to indicate that SPO 10 (Mig-21's RWR) should not have all four lights illuminate when a radar locks onto the Mig-21, only the one or two lights that indicate the direction of the locking radar should stay lit.

 

The only exception is if a very powerful radar is at very close range, since the radar energy might be strong enough to activate all the sensors at once.

 

This is also very, very important for gameplay, especially on multiplayer servers. It is very frustrating to have an enemy lock onto your aircraft and have absolutely no idea which direction he is in.

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Did you guys bother to check the M3 Bug tracker before asking M3 to comment?

 

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Hi

query for spo10 and sod57. I'm reading the manual from Chuck. Here's the information that rwr spo10 works together with sod 57. if a friendly plane targets or scans me, the sod57 indicator flashes. I tried and doesn't work. is it happening with you?

Screenshot_20190822-215605.thumb.png.c20aa67b10e773acd64b29279cb0d77b.png

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Ain't the direction strictly calculated by the timing of the received radar pulse? The CW would get all the lights go off, but the pulsed ones would be calculated that what direction it is by summing what RWR antenna received the pulse first.

 

Getting a lock or radar painting with all RWR lights lit up is just uninformative as you have no idea on what direction to take maneuvers or what threat around you has you locked.

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Is the RWR range limited to only 40nm? Testing against the F-14B and F/A-18C, we don't get any radar returns from the SPO-10 until we were within 40nm.

 

0.2-0.5 microsecond painting period and 35dB/mW power at 1000-8000Hz.

 

So likely it wouldn't even spot a F/A-18C radar that operates 8-12Ghz.

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I respect all the bugs report for lights and sounds or whatever. This one for SPO-10 is first priority. Just imagine someone locking Mig-21 and our RWR with all 4 light on and we lost looking all around. That should be fixed soon. We are talking about years asking for that...

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  • 1 month later...

IIRC there are SPO-10 specifications books available. I even downloaded one. It has all the diagrams, components, electronics... Everything you need to build, repair and service one.

 

Only limitation is the language. So developers totally has one.

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IIRC there are SPO-10 specifications books available. I even downloaded one. It has all the diagrams, components, electronics... Everything you need to build, repair and service one.

 

Only limitation is the language. So developers totally has one.

 

Just DM me and I'll translate whatever you want.

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