shagrat Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Well, I'll say what I've said before. DRM on this sim is WAY OVERBLOWN. This isn't Call of Crap or ARMA. There aren't 30 million pirates plotting to pirate this sim. I can count on 1 finger the number of people I know who play flight sims. Me. And I'm a hardcore gamer. No 12 year old pirate is going to try to steal a game that has a 700 page instruction manual. Anyone that does is going to fire it up, scream and curse trying to play it, and then toss it off their drive. As I recall, I think someone cracked A-10C years ago. It was a total failure. NO ONE wanted it. Just put it on Steam like Arma, Call of Crap, Battlefield, and all the other Big Studio games do. It will be fine. No one is going to pirate it. You'll probably end up with a lot more customers. Why are you so worried about kids who would never have bought from you anyway? Please your Real Customers by not overdoing the Copy Protection. The cost of Hotas joysticks, MFDs, TrakIR, etc. alone will stop any piracy, as they really are needed to play this sim decently. Pirates are poor and won't bother spending on anything greater than a mouse. THIS! I FREAKIN HATE Starfarce. Every time even the tiniest thing changes on my machine, I have to go looking for my Keys. It's REALLY ANNOYING!After the recent desaster with the Meltdown and Spectre Bugs in basically all CPUs, I am actually very fond of the idea to lock my modules to a specific hardware, rather than "my account" practically only secured by a password that needs to be held in the kernel memory. If somebody steals my hardware I need an activation, OK, but if someone steals the account/paasword... what are my options to get back access? What I do not like about StarForce is the limitations of activations/deactivations. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Well, I'll say what I've said before. DRM on this sim is WAY OVERBLOWN. This isn't Call of Crap or ARMA. There aren't 30 million pirates plotting to pirate this sim. I can count on 1 finger the number of people I know who play flight sims. Me. And I'm a hardcore gamer. :p No 12 year old pirate is going to try to steal a game that has a 700 page instruction manual. Anyone that does is going to fire it up, scream and curse trying to play it, and then toss it off their drive. As I recall, I think someone cracked A-10C years ago. It was a total failure. NO ONE wanted it. Just put it on Steam like Arma, Call of Crap, Battlefield, and all the other Big Studio games do. It will be fine. No one is going to pirate it. You'll probably end up with a lot more customers. Why are you so worried about kids who would never have bought from you anyway? Please your Real Customers by not overdoing the Copy Protection. The cost of Hotas joysticks, MFDs, TrakIR, etc. alone will stop any piracy, as they really are needed to play this sim decently. Pirates are poor and won't bother spending on anything greater than a mouse. THIS! I FREAKIN HATE Starfarce. Every time even the tiniest thing changes on my machine, I have to go looking for my Keys. It's REALLY ANNOYING! Pretty much with you on some points .... except you dont need to go looking for keys when you get a starforce re-activation message it usually has the key you entered once before there Iam not a big fan of starforce, but it does work well (apart from the MIG-21 issues because leatherneck decided to do it their own way) You can export ALL your DCS module keys very easily from the windows registry and NEVER have to enter them again Edited January 13, 2018 by Johnny_Rico METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchCrypt Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 THIS! I FREAKIN HATE Starfarce. Every time even the tiniest thing changes on my machine, I have to go looking for my Keys. It's REALLY ANNOYING! Got ya...no argument here. I just keep a simple text file with my keys in it on the desktop. If Starforce wants me to reverify for whatever silly reason, I just open the file and cut and paste. Doesn't make it less annoying, but makes it less painful to get around :smilewink: Alienware Area-51M: i7-9700K, 165Hz 27" ASUS Swift PG279 IPS with G-SYNC, 32GB DDR4 Ram, 1TB M.2 PCie x4 SSD, 1TB SSHD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6, Windows 10, CH Eclipse... Check out my fictional F/A 18-C Hornet and Su33 Flanker skins at: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?CREATED_BY=WytchCrypt&set_filter=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esb77 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 So I'd say that 3 days is an awfully short time period if you travel at all in regions where internet coverage is spotty, ie, most of the land surface of this planet. Sure, most people live in urban areas where access is easy and often cheap, but urban areas are overall a bitty little speck of all that's out there. With a frequent update period, which seems to be what ED is after, I can see 7 days as being a reasonable compromise. More than 7 days means it's getting to be more than just a little trip, and while 14 or 30 days would be nice for those of us that do exceed a week worth of non-access sometimes, 7 days seems like it would probably cover most people most of the time. I'd love a month, I voted 14 days, but 7 is where it becomes a dealbreaker for me when looking at purchasing new modules. Three days is just too damn short. Callsign "Auger". It could mean to predict the future or a tool for boring large holes. I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) So I'd say that 3 days is an awfully short time period if you travel at all in regions where internet coverage is spotty, ie, most of the land surface of this planet. Sure, most people live in urban areas where access is easy and often cheap, but urban areas are overall a bitty little speck of all that's out there. With a frequent update period, which seems to be what ED is after, I can see 7 days as being a reasonable compromise. More than 7 days means it's getting to be more than just a little trip, and while 14 or 30 days would be nice for those of us that do exceed a week worth of non-access sometimes, 7 days seems like it would probably cover most people most of the time. I'd love a month, I voted 14 days, but 7 is where it becomes a dealbreaker for me when looking at purchasing new modules. Three days is just too damn short.That means all military personell on deployment is out of the game, during their 3-6 month tours... And a lot of military personell is playing these kind of Sims. Edited January 18, 2018 by shagrat Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawhammer Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Later, we hope this will allow usage of a module purchase between Steam and e-Shop versions. Stay tuned for updates please. Thanks Sorry for bringing this up. Is this still the plan? Iam new to DCS and my next purchases (Iam going for the F-18, Harrier and Nevada map) will make me decide if i can keep the steam version (I really like the fast download and all the steam features) or switch to standalone. I do not expect a solution tomorrow or in the next weeks but if i will never be able to import steam modules into the standalone i would like to know it before i buy them on steam. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Sorry for bringing this up. Is this still the plan? Iam new to DCS and my next purchases (Iam going for the F-18, Harrier and Nevada map) will make me decide if i can keep the steam version (I really like the fast download and all the steam features) or switch to standalone. I do not expect a solution tomorrow or in the next weeks but if i will never be able to import steam modules into the standalone i would like to know it before i buy them on steam. Thanks! I would wait on buying anything until ED get back to us on this 2 METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted January 19, 2018 ED Team Share Posted January 19, 2018 I would wait on buying anything until ED get back to us on this I wouldn't, would hate to miss out on that $20 discount on the Hornet. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawhammer Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I wouldn't, would hate to miss out on that $20 discount on the Hornet. I just started with DCS. I have the F-15C, the free russian plane and the A-10C. Enough stuff to learn until the next f-18 sale. It just would be nice to know if i have to say goodbye to steam someday because they do not longer plan to bring both versions together. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt69 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Well, I'll say what I've said before. DRM on this sim is WAY OVERBLOWN. This isn't Call of Crap or ARMA. There aren't 30 million pirates plotting to pirate this sim. I can count on 1 finger the number of people I know who play flight sims. Me. And I'm a hardcore gamer. :p No 12 year old pirate is going to try to steal a game that has a 700 page instruction manual. Anyone that does is going to fire it up, scream and curse trying to play it, and then toss it off their drive. As I recall, I think someone cracked A-10C years ago. It was a total failure. NO ONE wanted it. Just put it on Steam like Arma, Call of Crap, Battlefield, and all the other Big Studio games do. It will be fine. No one is going to pirate it. You'll probably end up with a lot more customers. Why are you so worried about kids who would never have bought from you anyway? Please your Real Customers by not overdoing the Copy Protection. The cost of Hotas joysticks, MFDs, TrakIR, etc. alone will stop any piracy, as they really are needed to play this sim decently. Pirates are poor and won't bother spending on anything greater than a mouse. THIS! I FREAKIN HATE Starfarce. Every time even the tiniest thing changes on my machine, I have to go looking for my Keys. It's REALLY ANNOYING! Excatly !!! Average simmer is someone who can afford to buy a game and actually buy it. I never pirated any DCS module and I bought all the modules I have. The price is awlays something to consider but this is not what keeps me aways. Conversely, drastic and constraining copy protection like this one will keep me away for sure. And I bet I am not the only one. Copy protection has to be adapted to the market you are dealing with. :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clawhammer Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yeah, that are good points. I would buy all the modules i want asap but since i dont know what happens to the steam-standalone compability i cant and i have to wait :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I wouldn't, would hate to miss out on that $20 discount on the Hornet. Not a real question for me, 14 months now i didn't buy any DCS product, new DRM + planes again in alpha/beta state from months/years don't show the way to buy any new product. When ED come back to a reasonable DRM may be I change my opinion and I'll buy the Hornet. I just want to play with products I buy when I want and where I want :smilewink: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) I wouldn't, would hate to miss out on that $20 discount on the Hornet. 20$ is not the issue here. I will also base all my future decisions on that question. 20$ is not a problem if the product is high quality ... and not an Alpha version. For sure ... I will wait for the DRM policy decision ... and will wait until the F-18 reaches a level making it something more advanced than a MiG21/M2000 ( F-18 vs F/A-18 ) Edited January 21, 2018 by Dee-Jay ASUSTeK ROG MAXIMUS X HERO / Intel Core i5-8600K (4.6 GHz) / NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti FE 12GB / 32GB DDR4 Ballistix Elite 3200 MHz / Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB / Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W Platinum / Windows 10 Home 64-bit / HOTAS Cougar FSSB R1 (Warthog grip) / SIMPED / MFD Cougar / ViperGear ICP / SimShaker JetPad / Track IR 5 / Curved LED 27'' Monitor 1080p Samsung C27F396 / HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frumpy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Playing offline Hi, I'm using the most recent DCS 1.5.7 version. I'd like to run the computer off the internet, no updates needed. Now DCS logs on to the server every time I start it. In past versions I could disable it, but now a pulled cable will result in a "you can play for 2 days" message. I've seen how DCS can report technical reports to the server, lots of personal info on the data off my harddrive - not sure why this is in there. Anyway, I tried to revert to an older version of DCS, but no luck - not online anymore. How can I go offline? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 You can't anymore: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196585 Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frumpy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) This is for the Harrier. I've got older modules, like the MiG-21. I mean Facebook and Google know my show size, I am paying with my personal data to get a free service. With the modules I bought (quite a few) I paid already, so no internet connection needed (well, maybe every 6 months to see if I am still alive). Honestly, that's not cool. I've got little control of the usage of my personal data - ED can easily install an update and force me to send data which is none of EDs business. Talking about big data. I'm just a regular flight simmer with love for flying and simming, but this policy change renders all my modules inoperable if I don't agree to log on - right? Edited January 25, 2018 by frumpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) It's for DCS in general now: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196857 You are not forced to update your game. You can still decline every update. But yes, you are forced to get online every few days. Unfortunately that's the standard nowadays, not just in DCS. Well, quite a lot of other games and software even require you to get online EVERY time you want to use it, not just every few days. Edited January 25, 2018 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frumpy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Yes, call a russian server and get new unwated functions with updates. I wonder if this is legal according to EU law. Honestly, I read a few posts... am I the only one to have second thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZnarF Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 As a DCS user with frequent lost of Internet connection during 1 to 6 days (far east of France), I would REALLY like at least a 7 days activation time. Last period of non-connection (2 weeks ago, during 5 days), I was FRIGHTENED to not be able to play all these costy modules!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Yes, call a russian server and get new unwated functions with updates. I wonder if this is legal according to EU law. Honestly, I read a few posts... am I the only one to have second thoughts on this? As I said: This is pretty common in modern games and other software products, so if this would be illegal ther would be a lot of other games and software banned that are widespread. Personally, I don't like it either, but I disliked the previous system with the limited activations even less. So it's an improvement for me. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) As I said: This is pretty common in modern games and other software products, so if this would be illegal ther would be a lot of other games and software banned that are widespread. Personally, I don't like it either, but I disliked the previous system with the limited activations even less. So it's an improvement for me.You would have to go to court and File a lawsuite, first. The thing is, legally you may argue that you are not required to upgrade to the current version. And for the other games argument, most of these require an online connection anyway, as they are serverbased (MMP). I never had a problem with requiring a verification for MP. What I find disturbing is the dependency to have a working Internet and a connection to the ED server, every time I simply want to work on a mission in the ME, or when I just want to test something, or I want to have a quick relaxed offline flight. They should really think about adjustments for single player offline, to cover the customers not so lucky with their connection... Edit: StarForce wasn't actually "limited activations" in a way. You could even after blowing all 10 initial activations, activate every month. For me this was always a more theoretical issue, as even starting with Black Shark and DCS: A-10C Warthog I never used up my activations for any module in the last decades. Edited January 26, 2018 by shagrat Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frumpy Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 @QuiGon I don't care if this is pretty common or not. This is not the standard to measure things. To put it short, I don't like my software or my computer to be a testbed. I am here for flightsimming, not for risking getting my data exposed by some new hidden function in an update. I don't want my computer to be a big data machine, I don't need a "smart" flightsim. I mean just look at the ongoing Kaspersky discussion. The thing is - in Germany it is legal to sell used software licenses. If I don't use the software any more, I can sell the key. Every software. Plane addons too. That's the law. But Eagle Dynamics does not support this, they simply blacklist the key and thats it. So I am forced to get exposed to things I reject - or drop my licences which cost me quite some money. I wrote support about this. I am hoping to find some solution for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) @QuiGon I don't care if this is pretty common or not. This is not the standard to measure things. To put it short, I don't like my software or my computer to be a testbed. I am here for flightsimming, not for risking getting my data exposed by some new hidden function in an update. I don't want my computer to be a big data machine, I don't need a "smart" flightsim. I mean just look at the ongoing Kaspersky discussion. The thing is - in Germany it is legal to sell used software licenses. If I don't use the software any more, I can sell the key. Every software. Plane addons too. That's the law. But Eagle Dynamics does not support this, they simply blacklist the key and thats it. So I am forced to get exposed to things I reject - or drop my licences which cost me quite some money. I wrote support about this. I am hoping to find some solution for this. Alright, please let us know what the result of this is :) Edit: StarForce wasn't actually "limited activations" in a way. You could even after blowing all 10 initial activations, activate every month. For me this was always a more theoretical issue, as even starting with Black Shark and DCS: A-10C Warthog I never used up my activations for any module in the last decades. Yeah, same for me, but now I don't have to worry about it at all. And I don't have to have StarForce stuff on my PC anymore. Edited January 26, 2018 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Alright, please let us know what the result of this is :) Yeah, same for me, but now I don't have to worry about it at all. And I don't have to have StarForce stuff on my PC anymore.StarForce pro-active as implemented in DCS had no "Stuff" installed on your PC, it checks a Registry-key against a Hash of the hardware IDs that are already available through BIOS and listed/scanned by Windows... Which uses the same mechanism to verify hardware changes. People keep confusing the late 90ies, early 2000s StarForce (Root-Kit) with StarForce pro-active. With the new system you are tied into the availability of an ED server. Problems with the Internet-Provider? No flying. Problems with the Server? No flying. Problems with your account credentials in EDs database? No flying. On vacation and want to edit some Missions on the Notebook, but no Internet? No chance... Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 StarForce pro-active as implemented in DCS had no "Stuff" installed on your PC, it checks a Registry-key against a Hash of the hardware IDs that are already available through BIOS and listed/scanned by Windows... Which uses the same mechanism to verify hardware changes. People keep confusing the late 90ies, early 2000s StarForce (Root-Kit) with StarForce pro-active. With the new system you are tied into the availability of an ED server. Problems with the Internet-Provider? No flying. Problems with the Server? No flying. Problems with your account credentials in EDs database? No flying. On vacation and want to edit some Missions on the Notebook, but no Internet? No chance... You can still use DCS for 3 days without internet. Servers beeing down for that long is very uncommon. When I'm on vacation I have other things to do than playing DCS. And even if so, most hotels provide WLAN anyways. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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