How to defend Rapier

I guess this could be asked in the general DCS forum, but as I'm flying the 18, I'll try here..

How can I avoid being hit by Rapier air defense? Chaff's and flares have no influence on it, it produces hardly any visible smoke trail and the launch unit is really tiny (making it tough to target from a distance)

Any help would be much appreciated

Just like the Tunguska, if you see it on the RWR, stay away from it until someone kills it.

Fly above ~16,000 ft.

It's optically guided so the key is to:

• pick up the launch visually as soon as possible
  
• max performance turn to beam it to increase the LOS rate making it more difficult for the operator to track you
  
• Optical missiles also generally fly pure pursuit and are not efficient in energy use so just beaming it will often run it out of energy
  
• failing that an orthogonal roll is very effective against optically guided missiles.
  

hehe ok, I guess that answers my question indeed. Not what I'd hoped for though :P

"Problem" is, that in the mission I'm trying (Hornet over the PG DCE mission1), there's no one else to kill it and there are a bunch of soft targets in the area (that are difficult to spot from +16000ft).

I guess I'll just spam my clustes bombs from 16.000ft and hope to hit something :joystick:

Edit:

(posted while I was replying)

It's optically guided so the key is to:

 

• pick up the launch visually as soon as possible
  
• max performance turn to beam it to increase the LOS rate making it more difficult for the operator to track you
  
• Optical missiles also generally fly pure pursuit and are not efficient in energy use so just beaming it will often run it out of energy
  
• failing that an orthogonal roll is very effective against optically guided missiles.
  

Thanks, I'll try it out

It's optically guided so the key is to:

 

• pick up the launch visually as soon as possible
  
• max performance turn to beam it to increase the LOS rate making it more difficult for the operator to track you
  
• Optical missiles also generally fly pure pursuit and are not efficient in energy use so just beaming it will often run it out of energy
  
• failing that an orthogonal roll is very effective against optically guided missiles.
  

It was only optically guided initially but updated after 1971 it had a radar tracker called Blindfire. DCS models the Blindfire radar (I haven't tested this but the Blindfire unit is part of the template)

It was only optically guided initially but updated after 1971 it had a radar tracker called Blindfire. DCS models the Blindfire radar (I haven't tested this but the Blindfire unit is part of the template)

The way I understand it, based on info I can find, the missile is still tracked optically with radio command link. The Blindfire is a surveillance radar to find and cue the operator onto targets. I might very well be wrong, but in DCS it's optically guided despite the presence of the blindfire. Per old posts from Nineline and such.

One of the major points of the Blindfire is that - while the missile is being guided manually - it can be done on a radar return enabling the Rapier to engage targets at night or in bad weather.

One of the major points of the Blindfire is that - while the missile is being guided manually - it can be done on a radar return enabling the Rapier to engage targets at night or in bad weather.

It can be used in fully autonomous mode...

Rapier FS'C'

"The Blindfire tracking radar, supplied by Alenia Marconi Systems, is a differential monopulse frequency agile radar operating at F-band which provides fully automatic all-weather engagement. The output is sufficiently powerful to burn through most jamming signals and the radar uses advanced frequency management techniques to evade jamming and other hostile electronic countermeasures. The system incorporates a self-surveillance reversionary mode of operation. A dedicated missile command link provides dual firing capability."

I've also been stationed where these systems were deployed and have spoken to the Regiment operators...

So how can I force the Rapier to fire in radar guided mode? Leave the optical tracker out and just place the launcher and the blindfire radar?

So how can I force the Rapier to fire in radar guided mode? Leave the optical tracker out and just place the launcher and the blindfire radar?

I'd also very much like to know, because I tried beaming it but 50% of the times it still got me. This Rapier really is a nasty piece of sam :joystick:

Not sure it was so nasty in Falklands war : an older version ?

Not sure it was so nasty in Falklands war : an older version ?

It was indeed not very effective during the Falkland War, mainly because of its very short range. IIRC it was used as a point defense system to protect the british landing site from air attack, which it mostly did by deterrence. The Rapier missiles in use were also not fitted with proximity fuzes which made it necessary to hit the target directly, which, I guess, is not easy to do with an optical guided system.

Does DCS optical tracking work at night? In fog/rainy weather?

No idea about the Rapier in that regard, but the Tunguskas are ludicrously accurate with just their search radars up even in adverse weather.

Does DCS optical tracking work at night? In fog/rainy weather?

Should not. At night the Rapier only uses its radar.

In reality, you can only track planes slower than Mach 1 with the optical tracker. If they are faster, only the radar is used.

No idea about the Rapier in that regard, but the Tunguskas are ludicrously accurate with just their search radars up even in adverse weather.

The Tunguska missiles are IR guided, aren't they?

Should not. At night the Rapier only uses its radar.

In reality, you can only track planes slower than Mach 1 with the optical tracker. If they are faster, only the radar is used.

The question still remains how to force the DCS Rapier to only use radar guidance, even in daylight?

The Tunguska missiles are IR guided, aren't they?

 

 

The question still remains how to force the DCS Rapier to only use radar guidance, even in daylight?

The only way I can see to do it would be to edit the lua file here:

<YourInstallDIR>\CoreMods\tech\TechWeaponPack\Database\vehicles\SAM

The files are called:

Rapier_FSA_BlindfireTracker.lua

Rapier_FSA_OpticalTracker.lua

If you altered the GT.WS.maxTargetDetectionRange in the Rapier_FSA_OpticalTracker.lua to a very low value... (1) it may force use of the radar tracker detailed in the Rapier_FSA_BlindfireTracker.lua file. Not tested! DONT do this until you've backed up these files! Not sure why you would do it as the launch and track parameters appear the same apart from detection range (GT.WS.maxTargetDetectionRange) and the ECM resilience which is set to -1 for the optical tracker (is not affected by ECM).

Lua editing? Is that really necessary? Can't you just remove the Optical tracker from a Rapier site to force it to use radar guidance with the Blindfire Tracker?

So, what happens if you just place a Rapier with a Blindfire Tracker, but without the Optical Tracker? Won't it engage at all?

Unfortunately I did not had the time yet to test this myself.

The Tunguska missiles are IR guided, aren't they?

As far as I know they are command-guided via radio, primarily semi-automatically via the tracking radar and manually via the optical sights as backup.

Lua editing? Is that really necessary? Can't you just remove the Optical tracker from a Rapier site to force it to use radar guidance with the Blindfire Tracker?

So, what happens if you just place a Rapier with a Blindfire Tracker, but without the Optical Tracker? Won't it engage at all?

Unfortunately I did not had the time yet to test this myself.

Why don't you try it and find out?

Why don't you try it and find out?

As I said before: I did not had the time to do so yet. I will test it as soon as I can (probably next weekend).

Lua editing? Is that really necessary? Can't you just remove the Optical tracker from a Rapier site to force it to use radar guidance with the Blindfire Tracker?

So, what happens if you just place a Rapier with a Blindfire Tracker, but without the Optical Tracker? Won't it engage at all?

Unfortunately I did not had the time yet to test this myself.

I tried this morning and the launcher will not fire without the optical tracker and the blindfire radar together in my experience.

I tried this morning and the launcher will not fire without the optical tracker and the blindfire radar together in my experience.

So it needs both trackers to be operational in DCS? That doesn't sound realistic to me? :huh:

Just noticed this thread so I hope this helps. A Rapier launcher, optical tracker and radar tracker is one fire unit. It could be deployed as an optical or combined system but nothing works without the launcher or optical tracker.

The launcher, as far as I can remember, is deployed 26 to 28 meters from the optical tracker and the radar tracker deployed on the oposite side of the optical at about 6-7 meters. The launcher containa a surveillance radar and a command transmitter, the optical tracker is more or less just that and the radar tracker once a target is detected searches and then tracks the target. I'm not going to talk about sop's cos they changed over the years but in real life no operator will fire at you if you are beaming.

Before anyone asks, yes I worked on Rapier FSA/B1/B1MLI and B1TDU over about 13 years or so. Don't ask me about FSC, I know a bit but was never trained on it. Oh BTW the towing eye on lancher and RT (for real) point 3200 mils from datum whereas the middle leg on the optical points to datum.

Hope this helps, most of this info if not all is on the internet prolly :)