Brunner Force Feedback Joystick Base

That's great news, looking forward to what they will come up with.

I e-mailed Brunner asking if they could provide a discount or a lease program, but I didn't get a response, so it sounds like I'll have to get one at full price.

Their focus seems to be mostly on professional (training) flight simulators, the amateur business seems more like a side thing, tbh.

So kind of doubt it that they will be willing to provide discounts.

On the plus side, it means they build stuff rather in the durable way (at least that's what it feels like) rather than cheap and unreliable.

Oh and it opens some interesting possibilities. Since you can inter-connect multiple FFB units, you can actually create 2-seat setups for pilot and copilot with mirroring sticks or yokes.

So in case you happen to have a friend around who is interested in DCS (or other flight sims) as well ... ;)

I never could get used to 'return stick to center' after trim after I flew the black shark with ffb for ages.

Yeah, I know what you mean, trimming like that feels just weird.

And I said that even before ever flying a helicopter with a ffb stick.

Trimming with the CLS-E

I received the following message from Brunner, I am seriously thinking of upgrading to the CLS-E. The driving force is to have a stick that trims more the way an aircraft would. By that I mean I would typically pitch for the attitude I want, then use the trim to take the pressure of the stick to hold that attitude. Maybe that is not the way it works and I should readjust how I trim.

After reading there email it sounds like the Brunner trims differently then my present Thrustmaster 1600 soon to be a Virpil MongoosT50CM. I have reached out again to them for clarification.

Is there anyone using the CLS-E that might be able to shed some light on this for me?

BTW I typically fly the F-18 module.

Thanks

Hi Jim

Yes you can use it in DCS with static forces, hardware trim is already working this is a benefit The physical dimensions has and will not change.

kind regards

By that I mean I would typically pitch for the attitude I want, then use the trim to take the pressure of the stick to hold that attitude. Maybe that is not the way it works and I should readjust how I trim.

That's exactly how it works. You don't need FFB for this, it's implemented as hardware trim in the software.

You can set two of your joystick buttons to trim set and release and then the software will execute these commands when you press the buttons.

The hardware trim will move the null position of the centering forces to the position you're holding at that moment.

It is also possible to adjust the trim velocity, meaning how quickly the null position moves to the new location.

It can be very smooth (and slow) or it can be more snappy (quick adjustment).

I prefer the former, because snappy force changes usually result in position oscillations (because you have to adjust for the change in forces while you're holding the stick), but in the end it's a matter of taste.

If you want things like simulation of hydraulic failure, turbulence effects or similar stuff, then you need to wait for DCS FFB support, but for trim, you don't.

Edit: should note that DCS does not know that you trimmed, but then that doesn't really matter.

Thanks Berniyh,

I appreciate your help, I am curious is this different then how the thrustmaster trims?

I'm trying to ramp up to how this all works.

Jim

In a real aircraft, adjusting trim will move the stick. You can see this effect in the sim if you change the trim with the keyboard and look at the stick in the cockpit.

With a spring-based joystick, what you typically do is keep the joystick centered, then adjust the trim until the aircraft is flying level. In the real aircraft, what you'd do instead is move the stick to the position that keeps the aircraft flying level, then adjust the trim until you feel the centering force on the joystick disappear.

I appreciate your help, I am curious is this different then how the thrustmaster trims?

I'm trying to ramp up to how this all works.

You mean the Warthog?

The Warthog does not trim at all.

You can use it with the pseudo-trim function that DCS provides, where you move the joystick to the new trim position and then DCS will remap the axis such that the null position is at the position you selected.

Since this happens instantly, you will almost always get a significant wobble in the aircraft, as your input will be changed quickly from out-of-center to center.

You can get around it by retrimming very often and only making very small changes, but in the end it's not really a precise system and can be very annoying, especially when resetting the trim.

Proper force trim (like you can do with the Brunner) feels much more natural, precise and easier to use.

Just level out the aircraft and press trim and your done, the stick will remain at that position.

Thank you both for your help with sorting this out, your feedback has been a huge help to me. It sounds like the Brunner is the way to go and it handles trimming the way I'm use to in a GA aircraft.

You mean the Warthog?

The Warthog does not trim at all.

 

 

You can use it with the pseudo-trim function that DCS provides, where you move the joystick to the new trim position and then DCS will remap the axis such that the null position is at the position you selected.

Since this happens instantly, you will almost always get a significant wobble in the aircraft, as your input will be changed quickly from out-of-center to center.

You can get around it by retrimming very often and only making very small changes, but in the end it's not really a precise system and can be very annoying, especially when resetting the trim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proper force trim (like you can do with the Brunner) feels much more natural, precise and easier to use.

Just level out the aircraft and press trim and your done, the stick will remain at that position.

You are describing Cyclic/helicopter trim though or i might not completely understand your explanation. When trim button is pressed hydraulics release and cyclic becomes limp. you can then change position of cyclic and let go of trim. hydraulics kick in and thats your new center.

In a plane like the A10-C or any other fighter plane, you trim with a trim hat. you push hat up and it trims down. So you hold stick pitch down with force. then press trim hat up and let go when pressure is gone. your stick will be moved forward and stay there in its new center. Also useful when useing asynchronous pilons. you just dropped some bombs from the left wing. so your right wing will dip in older aircraft(newer aircraft will trim compensate). so you try and fly horizontally by pushing stick left a bit to compensate and then push trim hat lef(airelons) untill pressure is gone from stick.

I dont know all the different trims in DCS pseudo or not. But basically there are 2 proper trim systems. cyclic trim (one button plus reset) plane trim (trim hat plus reset) and maybe some dials for rudder trim as well.

I believe you can make profiles with the brunner device to simulate both.

@Berniyh can you confirm this?

In a plane like the A10-C or any other fighter plane, you trim with a trim hat. you push hat up and it trims down. So you hold stick pitch down with force. then press trim hat up and let go when pressure is gone. your stick will be moved forward and stay there in its new center. Also useful when useing asynchronous pilons. you just dropped some bombs from the left wing. so your right wing will dip in older aircraft(newer aircraft will trim compensate). so you try and fly horizontally by pushing stick left a bit to compensate and then push trim hat lef(airelons) untill pressure is gone from stick.

 

I believe you can make profiles with the brunner device to simulate both.

@Berniyh can you confirm this?

ah ok, I see. So basically you're looking for a way to incrementally move the force center position with 4 buttons, right?

So far I didn't look for something like that, so I'm not sure if that is possible, will need to check.

I'll report on my finding later today after work.

ok checked it and it is possible.

You have 4 commands for this:

Trim - evelator up/down

Trim - aileron left/right

You can map these to any button on the joystick and when pressed (and no external force is applied) the joystick will move to forward/backward/left/right depending on the button, due to the trimming force.

You can also set the trim velocity, which in this case defines the size of the steps each button push will induce.

(or if you continuously press the button, how long you have to press it for a certain movement)

In case you have their rudder pedals and/or collective, you can trim those as well, but I doubt that anybody does, the stick on its own is expensive enough. ;)

Cool. I figured as much but you can't be too sure.

Thanks for checking if its possible mate. Once I get my vacation money I'll be ordering a brunner device.

Cool. I figured as much but you can't be too sure.

 

Thanks for checking if its possible mate. Once I get my vacation money I'll be ordering a brunner device.

If you do end up getting one, you should really think about getting a video up of it on youtube. Right now all you can find are the yokes, nobody has one of the stick base. A comprehensive review of setting it up and operation - what it's like to use it in DCS or other flight sims, etc - would be fantastic.

This goes for anyone with or getting the base.

Yeah I know.. I've been lurking youtube for months on end. But Noone has a video of it. Just how to mount it.

Unfortunately I am not really youtube material. I might put something up by recording with my phone if I get around it.

Sorry, I don't do Youtube.

Just how to mount it.

Personally, I've got a aluminum profile rig mainly for racing (I also own a Simucube steering wheel).

So for me the logical solution was to get the Monstertech mounting frame for the Brunner stick:

https://www.monstertech.de/en/product/joystick-throttle-mounting-plate/

And then fix that to the rig using profiles.

Of course, if you've just got a desk or chair to mount it to, then that might not really help.

But for those cases they have some clever stuff on their side as well, no idea if those are worth it though.

Yeah i really wanted to look at reviews about the brunner base itself. not how to mount it. Those were the only vids I found sadly. How to mount the freaking things lol. Yeah you know. Noone knows what this thing is or how it performs but hey! here's how you mount it lol.

I'll probably stick with wood.

This is my simpit. I did change some bits from time to time. Like a second screen for helios panels etc. Those aren't implemted on below link though:

https://imgur.com/gallery/EJMYA4V

I've just ordered one of these. Primarily for X-Plane as it is already compatible. DCS support is in the pipeline based on my discussions with Brunner (as everyone here already knows). No timeline that I've seen.

Happy to report back and do testing and answer questions once I have my unit in about 2 weeks.

I also ordered one mostly for the way it trims. I've looked at there documentation and it looks like setup should be relatively easy.

Здравствуйте парни.Вопрос,этот джостик поддерживает DCS?будит поддержка его в игре?Извините что пишу на руском.Хочу взять такой фидбек,но сомневаюсь в поддержкн в DCS.

Iam following your progress with high interest.

Hello. I have a fakeback reworked green-eyed) he is in metal, but even so the load is rather weak in it.

Hello guys. Here is a link to my converted feedback.

My CSL-E arrived Friday, I set it up per the instructions unfortunately none of the buttons on the Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 work with the present software. Pitch and Roll do work.

Before I ordered it tech support had thought the buttons should however they have not tested it with this new grip only the older MongoosT-50.

Brunner has said they are going to get this newer version of grip. The problem is that these grips are not always in stock and they missed the last restocking period which was frustrating since I had told them ahead of time when the restock period began. For now it's an expensive paper weight and I'm using the Virpil base.

First congrats for receiving your base. I hope you'll get it working and have lots of fun with it. :)

But it's indeed very sad that it doesn't work with your grip.

Have to say though that this confuses me a bit, are the two Mongoos grips not compatible to each other?

It's actually said to be compatible with the Warthog base and in that case it should also be compatible with the Brunner base. However, there is an annotation on the product page that not all buttons will work on the Warthog base, so I guess it's the same on the Brunner base (which was mainly designed for Warthog compatibility, it seems).

Unfortunately, it doesn't say which buttons are affected.

btw, I already asked Brunner about whether or not the analogue brake lever could work and they told me that they cannot do that and it will only work as a button.